Nicene Creed

originally posted by: Disturbinatti

5:24

"..., anyone who hears my word and believes HIM WHO SENT me has ETERNAL LIFE, and does not come under judgement, BUT HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE."

I don't know about anyone else...


I am listening to Jesus pbuh because these are good true teachings that clearly doom anyone who disregards his instructions.

All Trinitarians DO disregard.

These are all from John except the Luke-Psalms quote that is word for word the same and applied to Jesus pbuh that most Bibles remove and replace.

John is supposed to be THE book that proves beyond doubt (please!) Jesus pbuh is God.

It denies it and says if you don't you are doomed.

"He who doesn't honor the son doesn't honor the Father"

5:18 "My Father...

...For this reason the Jews sought to kill him, ....was calling God his Father making Himself equal with God."

Is what his ENEMIES said.

"Of my own power I can do nothing."

Is him denying it.

Is it not ironic that none of his so called Trinity disciples honor his words or even care.

They just keep saying, no no no no no, Jesus IS God.

So then why did he deny it?

I mean how much clearer could it be?

Only a l few sects don't worship Jesus pbuh.

Allah blesses them InshAllah.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

You just made that up.
"Trinitarians"?
Now. As far as I remember from my catholic education: three expressions of God, is what it means.
Expression like ways of transmitting information.
You're stuck on an outdated worldview.
Penicillin was one of the many gifts from God, he wants us to flourish and progress.
Our free will is what matters.
Build?
Or destroy?
That's God. God creates.
"Surpress your very human nature and declare everything new and progressive a sin!" destroys. Who wants to destroy and benefits if you think a lot about your sins? How bad you are? The evil Satan, could say that, right?

a reply to: Peeple

I am afraid I must inform you I didn't make up Trinitarian paganism.

Or make up anything at all.

Just quites, edification. Keep it simple.

And it's very easy to do.

Don't dishonor yourself by making false accusations, I didn't make up anything.

a reply to: Peeple


In fact isolate what you think I made up other than Trinity because that's just absurd.

And I will prove it.

You must see I've been ignoring you are you that immature it angers you to the point of personally dishonoring yourself?

I can give a link to every quote no problem.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Okay then please argue the lower, more interesting part.
Without insulting me, if you can...

You mean these Trinitarians

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Disturbinatti

Okay then please argue the lower, more interesting part.
Without insulting me, if you can...

I'm ignoring you.

You calling me a liar is something I just happened to see scrolling, couldn't miss it and I exposed your deception, you lied.

Still are. I didn't insult you. I was ignoring you.

Until you lied about me.


You know I didn't make up anything.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Okay yes, it's true: the Trinitarians are real... but what are they?
Seems to be symptomatic for your condition...jump through the loop!

originally posted by: Disturbinatti


I'm not done. "I and my Father are one.''

AND

John 5:30

"I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge; and my judgement is just, because I SEEK NOT TO DO NY OWN WILL BUT THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME."

Jesus pbuh like Islam means , 'does the Will of God', to submit to God's will is the meaning of "Islam" which brings "Salaam", Peace to the soul. In the worst and best of times.

John 5:19

"Very truly I tell you, the son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the son does likewise."

Yeah...

Show me where I lied is it here?

a reply to: Peeple

Stop humiliating yourself please.

Your words are garbage. You have nothing to say so I'm done talking to you. I don't deal with dishonest and immature people in person or online.

Good day

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Not in that bit, but you said a lot... where's the ball? Be a good boy: search!

Okay I help you: you called me Trinitarian, right? I'm not member of that order = lie.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Disturbinatti

Okay yes, it's true: the Trinitarians are real... but what are they?
Seems to be symptomatic for your condition...jump through the loop!

Let me leave you with this.

You are admitting you lied and alleged I invented trinitarian Christianity, which was done at Nicea, the topic of discussion.

Are you serious?

But anyway.

At least they were defending, trying anyway, their religion they just legit don't notice that Jesus pbuh definitely denied equality with God, being God and said he can DO NOTHING.

Honor me, worship God, etc.

They didn't know. Hopefully they do.

You are just sn irr or anti-religous extraordinarily bored person with no beneficial words to contribute. No intelligent words and no not an insult.

Truth. If you are intelligent it isn't showing.

I can respect them.

You get 0, none, 0, none.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Okay. It's okay.

Here Trinitarians
You should discuss with them then. As they seem to be the ones you have a problem with.

originally posted by: FurvusRexCaeli
The Trinity predates Nicea, of course.

Yes, Of course. At first, simply from Paul's teaching the Greek Corinthians the Aramaic's phrase, "Marana tha" ( “Our Lord, come!” - referring to Jesus ) in prayer. A simple prayer asking for Jesus help. Then a hym based on Isaiah verse which Paul modified to compose Philippians 2.

Isaiah 42:5-8:
I am the LORD, that is my name;
my glory I give to no other,
nor my praise to idols.

Phil 2:5-11
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Isaiah 45:21-23,
For I am God, and there is no other.
By myself I have sworn,
from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness
a word that shall not return:
“To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.”

Phil 2:5-11
Therefore God also highly exalted him
and gave him the name
that is above every name,
so that at the name of Jesus
every knee should bend,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue should confess

There are many other Paul works that progressive transformed Jesus the messiah into Jesus the God. By 300 AD we have Arianism vs Homoousion dispute over Jesus divinity.

originally posted by: FurvusRexCaeli
The Council of Nicea didn't invent any of this stuff.

No. They didn't. The Christians were simply a victim to Paul sudden changing in understanding Jesus person. A victim to movement spread into the Roman Empire. A victim to fully blossom transformation of a very different ethos in the Greco-Roman world, where the line between humanity and divinity was frequently crossed. The line where the Caesars were made into divine persons.

originally posted by: FurvusRexCaeli
The Council's purpose was to address Arianism, which was a novelty.

Arianism, a Christological concept that asserts that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was begotten by God the Father at a point in time, is distinct from the Father and is therefore subordinate to the Father.

The Ecumenical First Council of Nicaea of 325 deemed it to be a heresy. Arius was exonerated at the regional First Synod of Tyre in 335. Arius was anathemised and pronounced a heretic again at the Ecumenical First Council of Constantinople of 381. Yes, it was a Novelty.

However, The Council was guilty for adoption Homoousion, Jesus as being ὁμοούσιος, "one in being" or "of single essence", with God the Father. The doctrine of emanation, taught by the Gnostics.

So here we are, having Trinity finally stamped in the heart of christianity by the authority of the Council under the warranty of the Scripture, to be believed and recited in everyone's prayer.

a reply to: EasternShadow



Thing is they invented enforcing as law.

Which is worse. Paul actually didn't teach Trinity.

I can't stand Paul but they invented the Nicene Creed. Not Paul. Trinity goes back probably to Iranaeus or Ignatius, Polycarp, one of those guys. Maybe Justin.

a reply to: EasternShadow



At least in a Christian context.

Ebionites and Nazarenes rejected both divinity of Jesus pbuh and Paul, according to Epiphanius were one group and Symmachus had disciples from both.

Probably Homilies and Recognitions comes from them it's the only Aramaic MSS. in Syriac in all of Christianity from its time, 410 it was dated.

Oldest dated MS in the world.

Jeremiah 33

They have turned their backs to me, not their faces, though I have taught them persistently, they would not listen and accept correction....causing Judah to sin.

a reply to: EasternShadow



To be perfectly honest Paul didn't even teach Jesus pbuh was God.

That say a lot. It's not the slightest exaggeration to say they hang on his every word as greater than Moses' words.

Replaced Moses with Paul.

And even he didn't teach trinity and is responsible for Christians ignorance of Jesus' pbuh teachings because dispensationalism holds Jesus'pbuh teachings to be unnecessary in many denominations.


He is a name and an idol to them.

Paul is their Master

a reply to: EasternShadow



You should read Porphyry against the Christians.

He says Paul's lawless teachings are a license to sin because faith covers it, Jesus pbuh alleged death... which nobody saw that wrote about it .

Not even John even though they try saying he's the beloved disciple he is a Pillar Apostle and not a mere disciple.

And doesn't claim he is.

Since I pretty much totally quoted all (1 is all really but...) necessary verses to prove Jesus pbuh denied being God and even that it was his enemies who accused him of being God.

Not him. Not John or the New Testament itself other than coming from the enemies of Christ nobody says Jesus pbuh is God.


Interesting enough is the Talmud has ''Acher" who is Rabbi ben Abuya probably another fake name in the Talmud as Acher means other as in one who uses an other name.

Herod Arche-laus is an anagram for Herod Acher-Saul, "Other (King) Saul."

And thats why or because the Herodian Jews were called as an insult ''Benjamin" and ''The Wolf tribe, Wolf of the tribe of Benjamin is obviously Paul.


The Talmud says Paul Ascended to Heaven like he says, the third heaven and he sees Metatron sitting while writing as Enoch-Metatron is a scribe.

He mistakes this for a SECOND God.

And turns apostate. Nobody lied liked Paul among the Judahites not even the Nazarenes and Ebionites!

Although nowadays sick Jews admire Paul for his well done done sabotage.

Talmud also says "Acher corrupted Jesus' teachings."

They would know their Herodian cousins sent him.