North Korean torture victim, Otto Warmbier dies.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: MetalChickAmy
What is Trump going to do about it? Write an angry tweet?

More sanctions... Military action... special operations...

Plenty of possibilities.

Heard a military guy say that his death was from frequent shots of sodium Pentothol so called truth serum eats holes in the brain. My guess is that since the US has the ability to track Lil Ill Kim's private plane it will have a tragic accident as JFK jrs plane did. (that"s an amazing story,took Coast Gard 15hrs to find JFK jrs plane, Jfk talked to the tower said he was 5min out from Martha's Vineyard and could see airport-then Coast Guard said he never spoke to tower-A great you tube around 90min)

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: MetalChickAmy
What is Trump going to do about it? Write an angry tweet?

More sanctions... Military action... special operations...

Plenty of possibilities.

Why?

There are a dozen good reasons for military action against North Korea, a action I would surprisingly support and hope the UK helps in.


Revenge over a dip# who ignored travel warnings and went to a insane dictatorship that hates the USA and commited theft is not one.
Not like the USA has a shortage of stupid people.

originally posted by: marg6043
Did I misspell the word? well sorry about that.

No, you used the wrong word. People tried and convicted in foreign countries are not hostages.

originally posted by: SBMcG
Yes, Warmbier acted stupidly. Guess what? 21 year-old males often do that. But that stupidity should not have cost him his life.

No "fact, intellect, reason, observation, history, and logic" went into that thought.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
First of all, I personally think the Jong Un regime is a bunch of sub-human animal creatures who would be better off if they were tossed off a bridge in a weighted bag into a river where they'd be consumed by bottom feeding scum and crustaceans. (Hopefully, my feelings are clear here).

That said, several points of consideration in this matter:

1. North Korea is FAR from a "tourist attraction" unless you consider the graveyard at Auschwitz a tourist attraction. Simply put, it's just not a "fun" place. Any person traveling there thinking it will be is sorely mistaken and misguided.

2. Outsiders, especially those from the US, who travel to NK need to fully understand and ACCEPT that travel to NK includes risks up to, and including, not coming home from NK...ever (i.e. Death).

3. Sadly, for the Warbier family, one person, on a non-political "vacation" travel jaunt to NK does not WW3 make. The facts are; Otto Warmbier traveled to North Korea on his own volition, with ample access to information concerning the dangers he could face there. That he chose to ignore some of these realities and got in serious trouble as a result is, unfortunately, no excuse.

4. People need to understand that when traveling to a 3rd world country the value placed on human life is far, far, different from western countries. They should further understand that even in western countries the level of medical care in a prison is far less than that of non-prison medical care. When you combine a 3rd world country and a prison in a 3rd world country, you should have no expectation of any level of medical proficiency...at all. It's unfortunate, but it is also a fact of life.

5. Otto Warbier's death, while tragic, is not a justification to go start launching cruise missiles into Pyongyang. As much as many of us would love to have this be the case, it simply isn't a justification to put millions of people in harms way, which is exactly what such an act would do.

6. How Otto Warmbier died, at this point, is probably mostly irrelevant. It's a safe bet to say, he went to North Korea, was accused and convicted of a crime by a kangaroo court and was killed. Even call it 'executed' if you wish. The net result is the same.

7. In addition to the obvious and inherent risks of traveling to a 3rd world country (as noted above), traveling to a 3rd world country with no diplomatic relations with your country of origin is exponentially more dangerous and risky for any of a number of reasons.

8. Those who call for "surgical strikes", or nuking the country, or any other such nonsense should ask themselves one simple question: "Would I willingly put myself, or one (or more) of my loved ones, on the front lines of the battle, war if you will, which will almost certainly result???" If the answer is "no", then that person should re-think the arm-chair quarterbacking.

9. Dennis Rodman - Dennis Rodman is an idiot, and that's pretty much all you can say about Dennis Rodman. Dennis Rodman is interested in Dennis Rodman, and Dennis Rodman ONLY.

10. RIP Otto Warbier. You were likely a good kid who might have gone places, and you will be missed by many.

MEGA-BUMP

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: daskakik

Did I misspell the word? well sorry about that.

Prisoners, hostages, detainees -- it's all the same thing. The remaining American citizens in NK custody (and presumably all of North Korea) all have one thing in common -- they're American.

Kim Dong Chul: Imprisoned for "espionage".

It looks like Mr. Chul is a US citizen who has been living in China since 2001 and was imprisoned by the Norks in October 2015.

Interesting details in the CNN story linked above...

Kim Sang-duk (Tony Kim): Detained 21 April 2017

Mr. Kim was living in North Korea while working as a professor at Pyongyang University of Science and Technology. He has not lived in the U.S. since the early 2000’s and had lived in China for 10 years before moving to NK.

Kim Hak-Song: Detained 7 May 2017

Another American citizen residing and working in Pyongyang at the University of Science and Technology. Kim, who is Korean, was born in China and studied in California.

[Note: I found a lot of conflicting reporting on these three detainees.]

a reply to: SBMcG

Which is why its incredibly stupid to visit north korea.

Only a idiot would visit north korea.

Personal responsibility, your responsible for your own stupid actions.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: SBMcG
Yes, Warmbier acted stupidly. Guess what? 21 year-old males often do that. But that stupidity should not have cost him his life.

No "fact, intellect, reason, observation, history, and logic" went into that thought.

Are you referring to Mr, Warmbier or me?

Don't go to North Korea

a reply to: SBMcG

Your statement. That is why it was quoted.

Also, Prisoners, hostages, detainees are not the same thing. They are all being detained but only hostages are: a person given or held as security for the fulfillment of certain conditions or terms, promises, etc., by another.

a reply to: SBMcG

The family is declining to have an autopsy performed on Otto. This is surprising. I thought anytime a person dies an autopsy is performed if the cause of death is in question. I didn't think the families could decline or refuse.

Guess we will never know what caused his coma. At least there was a chance for answers if there was an autopsy.

www.cnn.com...

originally posted by: EchoesInTime
a reply to: SBMcG

The family is declining to have an autopsy performed on Otto. This is surprising. I thought anytime a person dies an autopsy is performed if the cause of death is in question. I didn't think the families could decline or refuse.

Guess we will never know what caused his coma. At least there was a chance for answers if there was an autopsy.

www.cnn.com...

very strange.
i would think they would want to.

i know this is different cause this is high profile but when my dad died it was 'suspicious' and the only reason they did an autopsy was because i requested it. had to be me cause i was next of kin.
it took like 8 months to get the results.

i thought it would be like csi and i would know pretty much right away.

i dont get it.
their kid comes back a veg and there is all this hoopla surrounding it and they decline to find out way.

very strange to me

only think that makes sense to me is the family thinks its possible that he did this to himself and dont really want to face that.
im not saying thats the reason they declined but that reason makes sense to me

a reply to: TinySickTears

A favor for the Don?

a reply to: TinySickTears

Indeed, maybe they just want to move on..the results would not likely give any comfort, maybe just more turmoil?
I feel like I would want to know though.

a reply to: TinySickTears

maybe - they dont want to know ?

having the autopsy report means they have to face the reality of what actuallly occured

declining the autopsy - means they can pretend " whatever they want "

i am not suggesting that this is the reason that mr Warmbiers family have declined to persue investigations

but its a possible motive

i has seen too many people die - and the reactions from thier families has pretty much run the entire spectrum

one friends family shut me out entirely - they just didnt want to know - they didnt blame me explicitly [ and it deffo was not my fault ] - but they just didnt want to know - out of a huge family - that i was close to - only his sister ever talked to me after robs death - i got to know what it felt like when his son contacted me 15 years later - to find out what happened - as non of the family told him anything

these things happen

One theory I saw raised was he was administered sodium pentothol (essentially used as a truth serum) because the North thought he may have been CIA. During these interrogations to much was administered resulting in the medical issue.

No evidence to support that theory other than past incidents.

The theory was raised by a former military or intelligence guy on Foxnews.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Here's a "theory" for the parents declining an internal autopsy on Otto..

""Fred and Cindy Warmbier have made it clear they want justice in their son’s case and have called on North Korea to release the three other Americans languishing in its jails.

Yet their refusal to allow a post mortem examination to be conducted on their son seems at odds with their quest for answers.

Given their conviction their son’s condition was brought about as the result of prolonged torture at the hands of his captors, it’s understandable that they may view the procedure as yet another violation of his body.

That they were able “protect” him from this bodily invasion in death — as they were unable to in life — may also give them some comfort.""

Full Article: www.news.com.au... fe70743013437

I hope the physicians tried to explain how an autopsy could reveal a lot about what has happened to their son over the past year. Some are pretty timid after a loved one has died. They just go with the family wishes...no questions asked.