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Venezuela, Socialism, Bernie, Kittens and Rainbows.

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posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 07:14 PM
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originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: introvert

What it all boils down to as far as I can see is you're going to take it in the rear no matter what, unless you make the right friends or find your way into the right group no matter what country or government...If you can't or won't do so...You are shafted.


Yes. Exactly.

Communism, the extreme form of socialism and corporatism, the extreme form of capitalism, are bad no matter how you look at it.

In the US, it would be even worse for most of us if we did not have the tiny bit of socialism we do have to keep the capitalist corporatism in check. I'm referring to welfare, SS, food stamps etc.

That allows the people to survive while the corporatists keep raking in the money.

We need to balance things out. We need a bit more socialism to brings things back to the happy medium.




posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: introvert

Incorrect. In theory, free market is the most efficient system. See the gas stations out there? They all have the same price. That's free market at work. Free market guarantees the most fairness, the lowest prices, the greatest supply.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 07:36 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye



Incorrect. In theory, free market is the most efficient system. See the gas stations out there? They all have the same price. That's free market at work. Free market guarantees the most fairness, the lowest prices, the greatest supply.


Horrible example. Gas prices are dictated by politics (OPEC) and markets based on fake speculative formulas.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: introvert

For any of that to work we need an honest political system which we haven't had for quite some time. Basically no matter what government you look at in any major country they're all far from honest and controlled by the people... Especially the US. Our last few decades of presidents and elections should show that. Wasn't as noticable 20-30 years ago but the snowball effect has made it blaten today.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

I'm pretty sure there are regulations in place to prevent gouging, however that still happens. Ever gotten gas near an airport...Notice how its usually around 1$ more than most local places...That's because people take a lot of rental cars to those places to fill up before returning them and the demand is higher so they gouge.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 08:35 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye


I'm with him on this one GO FREE MARKET GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 08:39 PM
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a reply to: RickyD


anywhere near a freeway has high gas prices that's because of convenience. you could Inconvenience yourself and drive a bit into where ever your at and get a cheaper price SAME with airports.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 09:30 PM
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Yes... Venezuela sucks now. Their socialist economy relied heavily on oil exports, and when the US and Saudi Arabia forced the price of oil down to bring Iran to the negotiating table... we effectively bankrupted Venezuela.

We managed to destroy yet another Socialist nation and enriched yet another radical Muslim theocracy.

Winning?

I don't even know what that means anymore.

Sanctioning and starving people to death, then pointing at them and saying "see... you're way sucks, our way is awesome..."

That doesn't feel like winning to me.




edit on 19-6-2017 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 09:34 PM
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a reply to: MissCoyote

Wasn't saying it was good or bad...And I totally agree with you, just go elsewhere and voice your opinion with your wallet. In the case of airports and rental cars, they know they have you cause you need to fill up close to the airport anyway or risk paying like 3$ or more a gallon from the rental company when it's not full when you return it. Again it is what it is and I would rather deal with that to have more freedoms than have the government try to make everything fair. In the end trusting the government to do more is usually a mistake not a blessing.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 09:51 PM
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The problem with socialism is two-fold (well more than that, but two main ones):

1. It kills incentive. If you are producing and you know whatever you produce will be taken to be given equal portions no matter how hard you do or don't produce, what's the point of busting your butt to produce a whole lot? You will always pull down the same portion anyhow. And you can watch you less ambitious neighbor produce less and work less and still pull down the same portion as you.

2. It relies on scrupulously honest people in power all throughout the chain or it fails. The perpetual "we just haven't found the right people to run it" syndrome. Human nature being what it is, people will always want more because they are competitive at heart.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 10:34 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I guess number 1 is a big reason socialist systems would lean towards communist systems...To keep production up you need someone to force people to work harder with no incentive...Or well maybe the incentive is to keep living lol.

Or they don't work well and those policies get reversed...
edit on 19-6-2017 by RickyD because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 10:39 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
The problem with socialism is two-fold (well more than that, but two main ones):

1. It kills incentive. If you are producing and you know whatever you produce will be taken to be given equal portions no matter how hard you do or don't produce, what's the point of busting your butt to produce a whole lot? You will always pull down the same portion anyhow. And you can watch you less ambitious neighbor produce less and work less and still pull down the same portion as you.

2. It relies on scrupulously honest people in power all throughout the chain or it fails. The perpetual "we just haven't found the right people to run it" syndrome. Human nature being what it is, people will always want more because they are competitive at heart.


I agree with both points when talking about what we've come to know as Socialism... which is why I'm a Communist (of sorts). Though I prefer "visionary" as I don't limit my thinking to just one form of government or economy... as if I'm somehow obligated to because I was born in America... pfft.

Solving the world's problems is the easy part... getting people to agree on how to go about it is the hard part.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 10:46 PM
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a reply to: RickyD

Back in the Cold War Communists had incentive to work hard. If they didn't American tanks would have driven into Moscow to topple Communism.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 10:58 PM
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originally posted by: RickyD

To keep production up you need someone to force people to work harder with no incentive...Or well maybe the incentive is to keep living lol.


Do you have any idea how many people live that reality in this very country every day?



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 12:25 AM
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a reply to: Bone75

I actually talk to people from other countries quite regularly just yesterday I had a chat with a fellow from Somalia. He had been in the US for about 2 years and gave me some pretty eye opening details of the place. There are not many absolutes in life and I won't pretend government policies are one. I will say most of the countries that have communist governments have histories of tyrannical dictators using some of the nastiest means at their disposal to get the results they want. You're welcome to want aspects of that all you want, but maybe you should spend a little time somewhere communist before you start glorifying how good it would be here.

On the flip side what we have is just a hidden form of the same...We don't control things as a citizenry. Those with real power sit behind the scenes running things by proxy and let us peons think we are influencing things with our votes...Little do most realize it doesn't matter who gets voted in they're all under the same thumbs. Ever think about why when it was studied that it was found that Congress barely sides with the popular opinion. Sometimes they make it look pretty but then someone reads that 500 page bill and realizes the pretty fluff covered all kinds of unpopular stuff.

In the end it seems we all get screwed I guess it's your right to pick your flavor lol.
edit on 20-6-2017 by RickyD because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 02:23 AM
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originally posted by: GodEmperor
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Norway is considered a mixed economy, and is transitioning away from the socialist aspects due to high cost of living and the inability to compete.

Sweden's resources is about 90% privately owned, so it's more capitalist than whatever BS you're spouting. I really don't think you understand what socialism is. Sweden actually had to cut back on welfare spending in the '90s due to unsustainability, the Swedish government has been steadily privatizing, shifting away from socialism.

As for Canada, they have a stock market correct? That is indicative of capitalism. Canada also has a lower tax rate for the wealthiest than America does. Canada's healthcare system has been shifting towards private care, a notable landmark was the declaration that denying private healthcare was unconstitutional due to people dying on waiting lists.

Australia is a capitalist country, it has a stock market exchange, and has enjoyed heavy Chinese investments. This year, Australia has been cutting back on social programs.

It seems that every nation you identify as socialist, are actually moving away from socialism. We can all look to them as a lesson, and skip the painful step of finding out how toxic socialism really is.


Cutting on social programs does not equate leaving the socialist model, it just indicates that the corrupt people in power and the big corporations who are truly based in capitalism are raping and pillaging those countrys.

Again your post says more about you than what socialism is really, you think that a 3rd world dictatorship like venezuela is a true socialist country.

Thanks for trying but you failed again.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 02:26 AM
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a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Name the true socialist countries?



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 03:15 AM
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a reply to: FauxMulder

This thread has been posted numerous times, using different names of course, however it is clearly an idologial right wing hit piece because what the author is NOT telling you is that things went bad in Venezuela because the Economic Hitmen from a very powerful western power did a job on the Venezuelan goverment.

Suggest all readers watch "The Economic Hitmen."
edit on 20-6-2017 by Azureblue because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 03:50 AM
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a reply to: introvert

A gallon of milk pulled out of a cow three miles from me is a dollar more than a gallon of gas that came out of the ground in a desert 7000 miles away, refined, and shipped several hundred more miles.

How is that conceivable?

I've been to Venezuela. Puerto Ordaz and Caracas. Pre-coup. The best steak I've ever had was at a place called Papa's Moustache in Puerto Ordaz. Perfectly rare and smothered in goat cheese and some kind of indescribably savory mushroom.

My father lived and worked there for two years.

The Venezuelan people aren't any different from us. They were pushed into a dictatorship that stole the nation's desirable resources.

ETA: That's not socialism, that's large scale kleptocracy.

And FWIW, as a pubescent teenage American I was surrounded by stunningly beautiful, nearly naked women at the cabana where my dad lived and that steak was still the most memorable thing about Venezuela to me. lol


edit on (6/20/1717 by PistolPete because: (no reason given)




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