It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

A380plus

page: 1
5
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 04:56 AM
link   
Airbus is still struggling to find buyers for the 380.

A new more economic variant is supposed to help, using 4.7m large winglets.
www.airbus.com...

Limited wingspan be damned.




posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 06:28 AM
link   
a reply to: moebius

Interesting variant. It will be interesting to see if it garners much new interest, although my (non-expert and probably under-informed) guess would be, probably not. It doesn't do anything to solve the A380's two biggest problems, which are that it is too big for most routes and doesn't offer users a lot of flexibility.

I can, however, certainly see current buyers interested in the upgraded variant - Emirates, for instance, still has 50-odd undelivered orders for the type. Is there any indication if existing airframes can be upgraded with some of the new features, particularly the improved winglets?



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 06:33 AM
link   

originally posted by: PhloydPhan
It will be interesting to see if it garners much new interest, although my (non-expert and probably under-informed) guess would be, probably not.


I agree with you, it is an anachronistic design that does not fit into many airlines flying patterns. It does not offer much in the way of appreciable benefits over the 777 or 350 whose platforms have much more versatility.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 06:45 AM
link   
I had always wondered if there would be much demand for this airliner.
I guess not.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 06:58 AM
link   
a reply to: PhloydPhan
According to Airbus the new winglet design will not be offered as an upgrade to existing aircraft, only new build. Usually these winglet upgrades to existing aircraft wing designs require structural strengthening for the increased flight loads, a la the 767 winglet mod. I dont know exactly what the structural mods would entail but it would probably make it cost prohibitive or at least negate any fuel burn savings. Also there was a change introduced to the wing design after about MSN: 55 which increased the wing twist by around 1.5deg. Almost certainly this would mean that those early airframes would require different mods and additional strengthening. Further the problems with the rib boom feet cracking on those earlier aircraft still hasn't been fully solved so more regular replacement would be most likely required, unless of course they got the final fix in place first.

What the 380 actually needs though is additional wing and wing to body fairing aerodynamic improvements as well as engine upgrades or a new engine altogether. Plus it would help if they could activate the centre wing tank for additional fuel load. Throw in some system reliability improvements and you might just get the cost of running it down enough to make it worthwhile. I have a feeling Airbus is right that we are going to need very large aircraft again as more and more airports become slot constrained due to a greater number of travellers over the next 10 years.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 07:43 AM
link   

originally posted by: thebozeian
a reply to: PhloydPhan
...
What the 380 actually needs though is additional wing and wing to body fairing aerodynamic improvements as well as engine upgrades or a new engine altogether.
...


Pretty much this.

Imho they've built it too large and too heavy, mostly based on the marketing promise that there would be a huge demand for very large aircraft, so efficiency was not too important.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 07:48 AM
link   
a reply to: thebozeian

The Air Force released an RFP a few years ago for drag reduction systems for large transport aircraft. The only one that has publicly gone anywhere are strakes that they're testing on a C-17 now. They're getting some crazy numbers using them.

Be interesting to see them try it on a commercial aircraft and see what they get.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 08:26 AM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58
Well with such a big rear end the A-380 would be a prime candidate. I remember hearing about those C-17 tests last year, they were trying different types and numbers. Any word on what sort of fuel burn reduction they are seeing?



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 08:28 AM
link   
a reply to: thebozeian

I haven't heard hard numbers yet, but they went to the 16 strakes earlier this year. The word is that they're seeing better than they expected.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 09:16 AM
link   
found a presentation.



HOC Presentation
edit on 19-6-2017 by grey580 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 09:22 AM
link   
a reply to: thebozeian

They're still number crunching, but the flight tests are done. They adding fairings to three points around the aircraft, including wing root and around the engines, and different microvanes. They're looking at saving just over 7 million gallons of fuel annually.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 12:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: thebozeian
a reply to: PhloydPhan
I have a feeling Airbus is right that we are going to need very large aircraft again as more and more airports become slot constrained due to a greater number of travellers over the next 10 years.



This can't be overstated. The twin-deck setup of the A380 means that with appropriately-equipped terminals, you can load/unload one as quickly as a 787 despite it carrying twice the passengers.

It's both an anachronistic aircraft, due to its resemblance to the 747, and one that is staggeringly ahead of its time, because of just how many people it can move as efficiently as it does.

My honest hunch is that it's the 737 2.0, where it will have sluggish sales early on, because nobody knows what to do with it, before sales pick up in a decade or two once passenger volumes increase enough relative to terminal and ATC slots that consolidating multiple trips into the same aircraft starts to make sense again.

I've noticed more and more widebody airliners sneaking back into transcontinental routes out of SFO and LAX, and even out of DFW and ORD. We're getting to that point faster than you think.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 12:48 PM
link   
a reply to: Barnalby

As of the last Paris update, wide bodies are being outsold by almost 400 aircraft. They already have 477 narrowbody orders to less than 100 wide.

ETA: At the 1700 update it was 419 narrowbody, 38 widebody, and 20 turboprop.
edit on 6/19/2017 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 02:44 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

So what happens when Boeing's "totally-NOT-the-Tadpole" MoM bird hits the market? It'll either be the biggest narrowbody ever or the smallest widebody since the A310.

Also, what's the Boeing/Airbus breakdown of the orders so far?



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 04:31 PM
link   
a reply to: Barnalby

Right now it's looking like a small widebody.

As of the 1700 update it's about 75%-25% Boeing over Airbus. Mostly the Max 10.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 05:38 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

Wow. I guess Airbus really WAS trash talking it because they were scared of it.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 05:48 PM
link   
a reply to: Barnalby

Just looking at the headlines, between new orders and them switching some to the 10, they were over 100, possibly 120 today. They almost immediately had an order for 50, and three that were 10-20 each that switched to them as soon as it was announced.

ETA: According to Boeing, between new orders and conversions they have 240 orders for the 10.
edit on 6/19/2017 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 06:37 PM
link   

originally posted by: Barnalby

originally posted by: thebozeian
a reply to: PhloydPhan
I have a feeling Airbus is right that we are going to need very large aircraft again as more and more airports become slot constrained due to a greater number of travellers over the next 10 years.


My honest hunch is that it's the 737 2.0, where it will have sluggish sales early on, because nobody knows what to do with it, before sales pick up in a decade or two once passenger volumes increase enough relative to terminal and ATC slots that consolidating multiple trips into the same aircraft starts to make sense again.


This seems like it may be possible; however, the question is whether or not the A380 will have enough business to keep the line open for another decade, let alone two. They've slashed production to 20 planes this year and 12 a year beginning in 2018. That's enough to keep the line open for another 9-ish years, assuming both no new orders and no further cancellations.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 07:27 PM
link   
a reply to: PhloydPhan

I would think that if 4 engine wide bodies were still going to be a viable airframe that Boeing would still be actively looking to upgrade the 747 platform. With the potential of a stretched 777 or 350 you can jam almost as many passengers into steerage as you can on the 380 with half the engine maintenance costs and other related upkeep.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 08:02 PM
link   
There is only one real airlines that has any interest in the A380 and the A380NEO and its Emirates simply because their location and model work for the types of routes they fly.

Boeing was correct decades ago with the forecast of thinner routes point to point as opposed to the hub and spoke that the A380 and 747 were geared towards (to be fair the 747 was initially stop gap till the concord was delivered and would be converted to cargo)

No one else is really excited about the air-frame (Except maybe a few ME competitors). This proposal is a token bone being thrown to Emirates which also has the biggest backlog of the type in the hopes that they do not cancel orders.




top topics



 
5
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join