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Muslim Council of Britain: Perpetrator Was 'Motivated By Islamophobia'

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posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 08:48 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

I think it comes down to how you define terrorism doesn't it? If you define is thus...


The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological. See also antiterrorism; combating terrorism; counterterrorism; force protection condition; terrorist; terrorist groups.


www.thefreedictionary.com...

Then I would consider it a terrorist act. If he considers himself a terrorist or not isn't my problem, you know the old saying about freedom fighters and terrorists.




posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 08:54 AM
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a reply to: selfharmonise

Unfortunately by the time we need legislation, it will be too late. They will own control of the legislature.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 08:55 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted

I was thinking about it in a purely pragmatic way. But do we have any evidence he had goals beyond just hurting some people?

He belongs to no group, as far as I know he has no network or received no training.

Just one nut out to do bad.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

I was thinking about it in a purely pragmatic way. But do we have any evidence he had goals beyond just hurting some people?

He belongs to no group, as far as I know he has no network or received no training.

Just one nut out to do bad.





Not disagreeing. If he shares his motives or not, we'll have to wait and see. It seemed fairly apparent though that he targeted a specific group, so you'd have to assume that points at some kind of goal, and some reasoning behind it.

Anyway, going by comments made by many people on ATS over the last few months, why aren't we all out on the streets condemning this terrible attack on society by someone who looks (relatively) similar to ourselves? If it was a Muslim on non Muslim attack and other Muslims weren't doing this, the usual semi lobotomised keyboard warriors on here (not you, but I'm sure you've seen the kind of posts I mean) would be frothing at the mouth in self righteous indignation.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

So racially aggravated murder, plus several counts of attempted murder?

I do not buy it. I do not buy that at all.

No one ever said that terrorism had to be properly worked out, clear in its motivations, or even particularly successful at achieving them, in order to be considered terrorism. If his intention was to kill Muslims because they are Muslim, and therefore a problem, his desire to murder them comes from his (warped and deeply flawed) political convictions about the place of religion in society. If this act had even the most pathetically under developed political understanding behind it, its terroristic in nature.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


It can't be racially aggravated as Islam/Muslims are not a race. Islamophobic, yes very likely.

We do not yet know if murder was involved either as it may be that the man who died did not necessarily die as a result of any attack if latest reports are true.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted

I'd say it fits hate crime more that terror, the only reason for making a distinction is that if it is classified as a terror attack, then our anti terror squads will be stretched thinner for what seems to me a spurious reason.
I don't think I've seen anyone not say what he did was onerous.








a reply to: TrueBrit

I'm not denying the terror his victims felt. .but is there any benefit to society labelling this as terror? Let's face it we all know this isn't the same as republican or jihadist violence.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: TrueBrit


It can't be racially aggravated as Islam/Muslims are not a race. Islamophobic, yes very likely.

We do not yet know if murder was involved either as it may be that the man who died did not necessarily die as a result of any attack if latest reports are true.






Covered under the same law in the UK.

Besides which I suspect much or even most islamophobia is based less on religious grounds and more on plain old fashioned racism.
edit on 20-6-2017 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:30 AM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

I'd say it fits hate crime more that terror, the only reason for making a distinction is that if it is classified as a terror attack, then our anti terror squads will be stretched thinner for what seems to me a spurious reason.
I don't think I've seen anyone not say what he did was onerous.








a reply to: TrueBrit

I'm not denying the terror his victims felt. .but is there any benefit to society labelling this as terror? Let's face it we all know this isn't the same as republican or jihadist violence.



I don't completely disagree, however if this is not terrorism then why are lone wolf attacks (hate that term) by people radaclised online terrorism?



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

Yes, you are right. It's a bit of a technical distinction I suppose.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

I think there very much is a benefit to society of labelling every kind of sectarian violence, whether that sect be nationalist, fundamentalist Christian, fundamentalist Islamic, Republican, Unionist, fascist, or based in any kind of phobic attitude toward anyone, for any reason.

First, it will prevent people from being able to differentiate in a hypocritical fashion, between similarly oppressive and fascistic groups. This would be a fantastic step to take, if we are to unite our communities across racial, religious and political lines, against the sort of fascist nonsense that we see from all the violent, sociopathic individuals and organisations committing terrorist acts.

We could more easily push the message that these things are not different, that the enemy of all of us is not Muslim, nor White British, or that their violence and intent to commit it is NOT any more or less evil, but that our enemy is instead the shared mentality that ALL
these killers have, which permits them to abandon standard morality in favour of the deeply broken one they adopt in order to carry out their acts, regardless of which philosophy or ideology they claim to act on behalf of.
edit on 20-6-2017 by TrueBrit because: grammatical improvements



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

There seems from some to be a 'what did "they" expect' kind of attitude, the usual semi intelligent belief that the majority are - and must be held - responsible for the terrible acts carried out by the minority.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

I'd say because they are not standalone acts, but part of some broader strategic aim so need combating differently to some single person acting on a spur of the moment mental lapse.

I'm not trying to excuse the guy but he is different to the many small groups dotted around waiting and preparing.

Don't you think?



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

on that basis I totally agree. I worry however that our security services might be sent on wild goose chases because white power terrorism is not really a thing here is it?



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:37 AM
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originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: SprocketUK

There seems from some to be a 'what did "they" expect' kind of attitude, the usual semi intelligent belief that the majority are - and must be held - responsible for the terrible acts carried out by the minority.


Yes and not much different to the ones saying that the other attacks were our fault for the crusades or bombing Iraq.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:41 AM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: TrueBrit

on that basis I totally agree. I worry however that our security services might be sent on wild goose chases because white power terrorism is not really a thing here is it?

Unfortunately it's probably a lot bigger than people think. I know one guy (the pub big headed knob) who's often going on about going to neo nazi training camps in Austria



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Does he really go though? Or is he the usual bull artist?

what I mean is, do you think he's credible?



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

Tommy Mair. Countless clearly xenophobic hate crimes since the Brexit vote, and in the lead up to it. White Power stickers on light poles and swastikas daubed on walls (normally badly, mind you), EDL and BNP bastards in every city, maybe not in large numbers, but every city has at least some.

There have been examples of violent, racist criminality, arsons, attempted murders and murders. But these things do not get reported in the correct fashion. They get reported as isolated incidents, which when taken together do not mean anything or indicate any kind of particular pattern or the existence of any kind of underground fascist agenda at all...

But I know I do not need to tell you, that reading what lay between the lines is far more educational most of the time, than reading what is written directly on them.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:51 AM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: SprocketUK

There seems from some to be a 'what did "they" expect' kind of attitude, the usual semi intelligent belief that the majority are - and must be held - responsible for the terrible acts carried out by the minority.


Yes and not much different to the ones saying that the other attacks were our fault for the crusades or bombing Iraq.


Without wanting to be a dick, bombing Iraq certainly didn't help, and arguably gave Daesh a foothold, but I take your point.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:53 AM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Does he really go though? Or is he the usual bull artist?

what I mean is, do you think he's credible?


Yes I do. The north west/west/east midlands seems like its teeming with them. Threatened me and called my a half breed and another another guy sais similar with real venom, just because my grandad was a Jewish guy. Learnt to never mention such things and never been to that pub again. Some nasty buggers about







 
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