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Muslim Council of Britain: Perpetrator Was 'Motivated By Islamophobia'

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posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 05:52 PM
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originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Painterz

Hmm let's see
History.Com
The first of the Crusades began in 1095, when armies of Christians from Western Europe responded to Pope Urban II’s plea to go to war against Muslim forces in the Holy Land. After the First Crusade achieved its goal with the capture of Jerusalem in 1099, the invading Christians set up several Latin Christian states, even as Muslims in the region vowed to wage holy war (jihad) to regain control over the region. Deteriorating relations between the Crusaders and their Christian allies in the Byzantine Empire culminated in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Third Crusade. Near the end of the 13th century, the rising Mamluk dynasty in Egypt provided the final reckoning for the Crusaders, toppling the coastal stronghold of Acre and driving the European invaders out of Palestine and Syria in 1291

BBC Education
In the Middle Ages, the Muslim world stretched from India to Spain, including Jerusalem and the Holy Land. It was scientifically and culturally ahead of the Christian countries of western Europe. By 1070, more and more Turkish nomads were settling in the Christian Byzantine Empire and the Byzantines felt threatened by this. Then, from 1087 onwards, Turks stopped Christian pilgrims from entering Jerusalem.


Christianity Today
the Crusades to the East were in every way defensive wars. They were a direct response to Muslim aggression—an attempt to turn back or defend against Muslim conquests of Christian lands

Muslims had been fighting under Mohammed, a soldier, to control Europe & Asia for over 400 yrs and once the Seljuk Turks took Jerusalem in the 11th Century and closed it off to all Christians & Jews that is when the Christian Church started its Holy Wars. There were 7 Crusades in total, ending in 1254 when Islam destroyed all and any remaining Christian held territories. They were defensive wars. Despite the myths that the Crusades were responsible for Islamic hatred, they actually did very little damage to Islam and Muslim territories with Muslims themselves barely taking note of these Holy Wars until as late as the 20th Century when it became convenient to blame these wars for their own current aggression. The Holy Wars were by far a dismal failure. The Christians only managed to hold onto Jerusalem for around 90yrs and lost all other land in the ME quite quickly due to disease lack of food and infighting.






Well no offense but you need to ask the question 'why did Pope Urban II push for the first Crusade?' And the answer to that reveals that it had nothing at all to do with Islamic aggression, and everything to do with internal Christian Church politics and the struggle between Rome and the Greek Orthodoxy. Along with Urban IIs struggles against the Christian Kingdoms which were eroding the power of the Roman Catholic church.


Also the Christianity Today perspective on the Crusades as being 'every way defensive wars' is... entirely fictional, and pure modern day Christian propaganda. There is absolutely no way you can describe the Crusades as 'defensive wars'. Just. No. Sorry.




posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 06:04 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: 23432

So your making the claim 2 million armenian's didn't die do to purges. So where did two million Christians go exactly?? They were there prior to the death marches into the Syrian desert. By the way there is your answer they are under sand in the Syrian Desert.

But what does this have to do with the topic? Nasty things happen in the middle east


You really , really check your accepted narrative , it contains known lies .

Armenians would have dug those bones out looooong ago .

We still dig ancient bones in Syria and Syria has always been anti - Turkish.

If you think Asad's father would have kept silent and not make the mass graves public than you probably believe in unicorns too.

Armenians still live in Turkey ; Armenian Church is still going on in Turkey and Armenians from Armenia still come to Turkey to work illegally as immigrants .

All these facts are contrary to stupid narrative that you were tought and I am not surprised people actually believe that Turks killed millions and there are no bones , no orders , no mass graves .

Diddly squat when it comes to evidence .

That is why Armenians will never take the Turks to Court and seek Lawfull Remedy for their made up claims ; they know any Jury would laugh the claims right off the Court .

Armenians were Christians who joined with muslims because they needed protection from Christians .

They lived under the protection of Turks over 600 years and never lost their language , religion and traditions .

Muslims don't force people to change ; there is no compulsion in Islam and Ottomans were simply acting in accordance with being a multi-culti empire .

All this is contrary to main stream trend of " muslim the terrorist ; islam the terror ".


You all being played for a fool and muslims aren't the ones who are doing the playing .



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 06:07 PM
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originally posted by: ErrorErrorError

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
They can blame islamophobia on Islamics who blow people up, cut off their heads, drive vehicles into infidels, rape, mutilate women and children then the silence from Islamic leaders. You know, the stuff that naturally creates a real justified phobia among the general population of humans who do not do or condone those things because of their flying spaghetti monster.


By that logic we can blame Islamic terrorism and killings of innocents on our governments that have been bombing and destabilising muslim countries for decades ?! And don't give me the crap how you're not responsible for your governments actions. If you can hold every muslim responsible for terrorist attacks than surely we can blame every Britt for actions og their governments, even more so because the Britts ELECTED their representatives.


Nope, they been killing each other over what their flying spaghetti monster means to them before the invention of bombs.

Next fallacy.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 06:23 PM
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"Western" scientific and technological culture has become dominant by force.

Rivers of blood have flown across the planet to achieve this.

A more murderous culture is difficult to imagine.

The white english speaking engineer is the most dangerous animal on the planet.

His Russian and German cousins are not too far behind him.

Spengler published "The Decline of the West" almost a hundred years ago.

en.wikipedia.org...

Since then we have become even more powerful and dangerous.

Sadiq Khan may believe that Islamic Terrorists can bomb and murder and it will find only love and acceptance.

History teaches a different lesson.

75 or so years ago a well integrated Middle Eastern religion were murdered in their millions.

22 years ago modern europeans carried out the Srebrenica massacre.

en.wikipedia.org...

The future of Islam in Europe is likely to look like its past.




posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 06:39 PM
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The left will have a hard time with this one.
They like to claim Islamic terrorism is largely due to western intervention in the Middle east. Alright I'll accept that if... They can accept this incident is the result of Islam's intervention in the west. Both accepting these two cultures are not compatible.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 07:28 PM
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His wife says he is troubled but not racist. You'll see as quoted, a claim that he was always shouting at his wife and kids.


The Telegraph reported Osborne had become radicalised following the recent terror attacks in London Bridge and Manchester.

He is allegedly to have hurled insults at his Asian neighbour's 12-year-old son and was allegedly thrown out of his local pub the night before the attack for "cursing Muslims".




One neighbour, who did not wish to be named, told the Metro: “He had lived on the estate for a few years. He’s always been a complete c*** but this is really surprising.”

Source

Looks like he left what, one would call, racist overtones, here and there and had outbursts according to some.



Khadijh Sherazi said she had never had any problems with him or his family until this weekend. But her 12-year-old son, Nadeem, said:

I was on my bike and he just came up to me and said ‘in-bred’. Just out there [on the road]. It was just a normal voice. He just said it. His sister, Nadia, 10, said she also heard what Osborne said.

Me and my nan were sat on the deck. She was putting the washing out. All of a sudden we heard him say ‘in-bred’. I said to my nan: ‘Did you hear that?’ She said it was probably to his dogs.





Pharmacist Rebecca Carpenter, 26, said Osborne was “quite a shouty person, always shouting at his wife and kids”.

He always seemed an aggressive and strange person. He drove around in an old car that was always damaged.
He never caused us any real problems, but we could often hear him shouting from the other side of the street.
None of us have ever really spoken to him but we recognised him straight away when we saw him on the telly this morning.

Source2


edit on 19-6-2017 by dreamingawake because: quotes



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: 23432

You can start at the 6 minute mark if you don't want to see the whole thing.




And of course this is a much more in depth documentary



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 08:15 PM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: 23432

You can start at the 6 minute mark if you don't want to see the whole thing.




And of course this is a much more in depth documentary



First one shows no evidence of mass murder .

Second one is too smart for it's own good.

Why do the Armenian State doesn't ask the International Court to bring charges , legally and lawfully ?

I don't know whether you are an Armenian or not ; let me assure you that the Armenians did their own share of killing civilians .

Most cities in the East of Turkey have seen Russian occupation with Armenian terrorists as local guides.

All these facts are not in dispute and on record .

All you can bring about is hearsay , falsification , fakery .

You already know the truth without a fair trial ?

Don't you ?

Anyhow , believe whatever fiction you want to believe.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 03:09 AM
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I find these posts about Islamic hate on ATS tiresome.

ATS is full of right wing scum who think that 1.6 Billion people are inherently evil because of a book they read.

If people are really so stupid to believe that a whole religion is inherently evil because the interwebs told them then what is the point in even trying to start a debate with them on the topic.

Its like trying to argue 9/11 conspiracies with a guy who does not even believe that planes hit the towers. It takes a special kind of stupid and I am just not stupid enough to have a debate like that.

I really would not be surprised in the slightest to find that the guy who has done this was a ATS member.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 06:22 AM
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Good grief all I heard last night on TV was the word Islamophobia, every Minister, Policeman and Muslim was shouting this word.

Lets look at the situation without the Muslim Council of Great Britain using an agenda, lest we not forget that the same council has been found to have deep Radical ties with the Muslim Brotherhood in the past.

We have had numerous attacks on British citizens by people claiming to be acting for Allah, the truth here is that they were acting for some nasty little man made off shoot and daring to use the book as purpose, people have to see that these people are NOT standard Muslims, they are barbaric Sharia loving Radicals who believe in complete nonsense mixed in with the odd verse from the Quran. Yes there are quite troubling verses in the Quran but the majority of Muslims just work on the peaceful side.

So we have had attacks from splinter groups normally supporting IS, not ordinary Muslims.

And now after numerous attacks we see a rather unhinged bloke (by all accounts) take a general feeling amongst many people of fear and too little being done to remove these splinter groups and he actually manifested it as a revenge attack by doing what had been done by the groups on Muslims in general, he stupidly lumped all Muslims in the same group and I hope he gets handed a MASSIVE sentence so to put others off doing the same disgusting acts of terror to ordinary people.

The people to blame, our daft useless government, by their actions they have managed to put the Muslim community and the Non Muslim Community at logger heads by in the past seeming to hide actions by individuals who were doing things that were culturally overlooked in their home countries, ie Rotherham and the like and our Police and the services around them DID hide these evil monsters and gave the impression to Non Muslims that they would just try and brush it under the carpet because they were Muslims and they didn't want Muslims to be seen to be targetted.

That was the most stupid and divisive act they could have done, these people should have been treated as the paedophiles and traffickers they were and punished as that and not hidden, justice would have seen to be done and any apologists could be told "we acted on the line of the law" end of.

So we have had a situation where a divide was created by the very people here to look after all communities.

Now the bit some will dislike but it is FACT and is likely to lead to more events, there's a huge difference between this POS man who attacked the innocent people at the Mosque and most but not all of the recent attacks on Non Muslims, that is radicalism, most of the attacks are from very Radicalised folk with planning and funding from others, there are some who simply act alone but again its because they support a very different and dangerous off shoot of Islam.

The point here is that there's still a great many of these types of people out there and the likelihood is that will spur these on and it was seen that an immediate blanket of hate was spread via social media by the IS supporters and recruiters hoping to spur the young and the already Radical into more acts. On the other side its more or less far right and beer filled thugs posting, its unlikely they will act more than their usual cowardly threats while the Radicals may well act.

I'm hoping the Muslim communities realise what is going on here with the hope to pit them against Non Muslims, I've seen the amazing public out pouring of support on both sides when all these horrible acts have hit either community and its truly been heart warming to see everyone pitching in together as it should be but there are those who are hoping for a very different outcome so I suspect there will be more attacks as a so called revenge for the attack at Finsbury Park, there's massive attempts to provoke the youth via social media, I can only hope they see the bigger picture and realise they are being used as pawns in a very different fight.

I can only hope that both sides now see what the attacks with lorries etc can do and come together to out people within their communities so these acts don't happen, its going to take Muslims and Non Muslims to work very hard together but it can be done if others don't seek to destroy that much needed coming together..

There's a very strong and well financed force from the Middle east looking to enforce their ways and its clear there's many in the West that would help see this happen. Religion CAN be peaceful, its the rather nasty sub trappings that are now seen to go with it that we have to worry about.

Small edit:

Can the rather annoying folk saying that past history is the reason for what is happening in the world, this is about TODAY, NOW and the Future, not the past. IS are looking to create caliphates, not because of history but because they want more power now and in the future, if you asked most of the Radicalised youth here in the UK about those historical events they would know NOTHING about them and certainly are not fighting for them. Its the same in America with the BLM brigade, they claim things about slavery but that is just to whip up the frenzy, they just want power and to be honest could not give a damn about most of the people they claim to represent.

Its no different with this situation here, people whipping up a frenzy to promote violence and sprinkling in little bits of what they call oppression against all Muslim which simply ISN'T the case, being a Muslim here in the UK gives you all the same privileges as being a Non Muslim and that is the way it should be, all on an equal playing field.
edit on 20-6-2017 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 06:35 AM
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a reply to: Mclaneinc

Well said.

Its worth pointing out though, that in the recent flutter of attacks by the radical Islamic terrorist set, the perpetrators had ALL been outed to the authorities, by members of the Muslim community, who, quite rightly, acted in the best interests of the nation and their community, by choosing to speak up.

In this Finsbury Park incident though, the maniac who perpetrated the attack was not known to be a threat. His friends and family did not out him as a threat to the public, his neighbours, who thought he was a "c-word", and the bad c-word at that, did not realise the danger he posed.

This brings up some important issues in my view.

First of all, we are going to have to accept that just as no one in this mans life, realised he was a danger to those around him, nor is it always necessarily the case that Muslim folk are going to recognise the threat posed by a member of their community. The same understanding of this fact needs applying to the entire British population. There must not be a different set of expectations placed on Muslims, than there are on any other demographic, because as this recent incident shows, it is not the case that it is always clear that an individual poses a threat to others, until the very moment that they do something irrational and evil.

Second of all, and this is a repetition of something I have already stated several times, in the recent flurry of so called Islamic Extremist assaults on the public, the security services knew the names and addresses of the individuals who posed the threat, and that they posed a threat. There is absolutely no reason that those individuals should still have been walking around, free, because they were reported as having been in the midst of planning a terrorist incident, which is a criminal offense in and of itself. The report from within their community, is in and of itself, what I would call very reasonable probable cause to have raided their property BEFORE something could have happened.

Its important to make sure that people still report the evil doers, but its even more important that the security services actually act on what information they are given by people trying to do the right thing by the wider community, to prevent these attacks before they happen, by speaking out.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 06:48 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Mclaneinc

Its important to make sure that people still report the evil doers, but its even more important that the security services actually act on what information they are given by people trying to do the right thing by the wider community, to prevent these attacks before they happen, by speaking out.



Absolutely agree, though there is a huge road block stopping the security services acting.

A large section of society will not allow them to intern these people who we know are a massive danger to others (I am not talking about muslims, here, either. There is an industry around using human rights legislation to make barristers richer at the tax payer's expense, a ton of "charities" and an army of ill informed supporters who really only want to do the right thing by their fellow human beings).
We need a new law, one that maybe comes up for renewal each year or so, that allows the state to intern or deport or even execute people who belong to these groups that have already shown an ability to kill large numbers of people on our streets.

Until that is done, we can't expect too much else from the boys and girls we rely on for our safety.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 07:18 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

Well, that might not be necessarily the case, although I understand why it may seem that a new power is required. The law, as it stands already, holds that it is a criminal offence to prepare to engage in terrorism, an arrestable offence, for which one may expect to be imprisoned for life as a maximum sentence, under Section 5 of the Terrorism Act 2006.

Any one of the recent attackers, including the Manchester bomber, and those who have used vehicles and blades to engage in terrorist pursuits, could have been raided, and evidence found of their intentions. It is also worth pointing out that possession of publications by, or intent to distribute the publications of a terrorist organisation, is ALSO a criminal offence, as is failure to report suspicion of terrorist activity or intent on the part of another person. Supporting terrorism is a criminal offence, working to fund or send aid to terror groups is an offence, and so are a whole host of other things related to the subject.

Any one of the attackers from the recent incidents, EXCEPT the Finsbury Park attacker, COULD have been charged quite handily with a range of offences, up to and including preparing to commit an act of terrorism, and been banged up for the rest of time, within the current framework of the law, without even the slightest hint of violation of human rights, or any other possible hangup.

No one acted. That is the ONLY problem.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 07:24 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Someone suggested you run for parliament a while ago.

I think the CPS could use a fresh brain.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 07:33 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


That's two posts of yours that I find myself in complete agreement with. I really must try harder.






posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 07:37 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

The main problem is, of course, that it is demonstrably the case that the government and our intelligence services, are aiding and abetting terrorism, by continuing to deal with Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and you know what I am like Sprocket... if it was up to me to put the law to work, the entire establishment would crap itself and fall over, or have me knocked off, because the first people I would go for, are those who helped set up, not to mention continue to fund these organisations through foreign investment with nations such as those mentioned.

Of course, people would accuse me of partisanship in doing that, but its illogical for people to want rid of terror, but permit their governments over successive Parliaments, to continue to feed the beast!



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 08:15 AM
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originally posted by: CulturalResilience
This will have the unfortunate consequence of enabling apologists to claim that White people also committ terrorist atrocities, and further disregard the dispropotionallity in that erroneous claim.


Really??? Look back over the last 50 years of terrorism in the UK and try and see if that argument still holds up. Clue; it won't.

There are extremists in all types of society, I'm glad to see you so quick in your denial of this.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 08:21 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

The fact that our rulers are rotten is a whole different topic mate, I do agree with you though.
For me, acting so openly in defiance of what we all know with regards to Saudi and suchlike is the most strikingly Orwellian theme of all.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 08:22 AM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK
This ain't a terrorist thing.
its a spur of the moment job.

The guy is 48, well beyond the norm for people involved in this kind of terrorist action.

The fact he turned into a dead end street shows that he didn't plan this beforehand.

It's one psycho, possibly recently divorced or unemployed who lost it and decided to hit out at someone rather than face the reality of making a mess of his own life.

Treating it as terrorism will only drag scarce resources away from the fight against actual, organised terror.


He hired a van for the day and drove from Wales to London, he then appears to have driven towards this building and the people outside. He's alleged by multiple witnesses - you know, people who were there, to have said he wanted to kill Muslims. Yeah, how could it be pre-planned.

The guy who drove into people on Westminster bridge before killing a police officer was I understand older than this guy - sometimes the demographics don't map.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 08:35 AM
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originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: SprocketUK
This ain't a terrorist thing.
its a spur of the moment job.

The guy is 48, well beyond the norm for people involved in this kind of terrorist action.

The fact he turned into a dead end street shows that he didn't plan this beforehand.

It's one psycho, possibly recently divorced or unemployed who lost it and decided to hit out at someone rather than face the reality of making a mess of his own life.

Treating it as terrorism will only drag scarce resources away from the fight against actual, organised terror.


He hired a van for the day and drove from Wales to London, he then appears to have driven towards this building and the people outside. He's alleged by multiple witnesses - you know, people who were there, to have said he wanted to kill Muslims. Yeah, how could it be pre-planned.

The guy who drove into people on Westminster bridge before killing a police officer was I understand older than this guy - sometimes the demographics don't map.


The Westminster guy was 52, dead right. I stated this one's age as one aspect of why I didn't believe this was a terrorist act.
Multiple witnesses also reported 3 attackers, armed with knives and all sorts, so let's not get carried away. Especially since the people on sky news soon dropped those rumours and there is video of him NOT saying such things.

We don't know if he hired the van just for that or if he had some other purpose for it too, do we?

I maintain, that if you are an unconnected, mentally unstable person who thinks that muslims are the reason your life is so rubbish, then there is only one mosque in the country you will be guaranteed to know the name of. And he couldn't even find that! If it was just a case of wanting to hurt muslims in general, there must be plenty of mosques in Cardiff. He chose to go to the most high profile, most trouble laden place there is.

As horrible as this is, I don't think it's terrorism, it's one nut taking stuff out on a distinct group.

The only thing I would caution against, is the slightly raised chances of copy cats for the next few weeks. Similarly troubled people thinking in similar terms.

As bad as that might be, it's a hell of a lot less of a risk than the jihadis planning their next killing spree and that is where our resources still need directing.




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