Trump admin shot down an SAA jet near Raqqa

a reply to: TheStalkingHorse

There were many reasons why Rome fell but the Vikings were not involved - it was the Visigoths and Vandals.


But what involvement is it suggested that the trump admin had (in the shooting down, I mean, not the fall of Rome)?

a reply to: crazyewok

No such thing.

Empires are empires. Yours rose and fell. Ours, is still climbing.

I'm just an American that embraces American Exceptionlism.

Pig and bull headed? Yip. Stop us

a reply to: TheStalkingHorse

Yes and a massive tecnological and ethical gap as well, 2000 years later, keep up with the times padwan.

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: crazyewok

No such thing.

History disagrees.

Rudling by fear always ends badly.

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: crazyewok
Yours rose and fell.

More likley Heroically sacrificed itself fighting fascism.
As are as empires go you cant get a better ending than being part of freeing the world from Nazi Germany and the Japanese.

Better than the typical slow and lingering death that most empires go through anyway.

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: crazyewok
Ours, is still climbing.

Actually its stagnated now and going through the typical stages of collapse. Your internal problems are a inticator of a empires end.
Shame really as I prefer a US or Anglo based empire in charge.....but I guess we will be going toward a chinese led world in the next 50 years unless something major happens in the US.

War very rarely ends a empire (UK was a exception), its internal collapse that kills them. a triliion dollor miliatry budget cant save you from politcal and social decline.

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: crazyewok
I'm just an American that embraces American Exceptionlism.

And I am a realist that studies history.

We are all the same human meat bags and susceptible to the same human fallacy’s.
America got lucky in that you ended up with 9,833,520 km2 of land packed full of resources and that a world war bankrupted the former super power.
But that still does to exclude you from the same rules and problems as other empires.

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: crazyewok
Pig and bull headed?

Pig headed and bull headed has been shown to cause a lot of problems. Empires do well when they play things carefully and tactfully.

Makeing enemies when you dont have to is stupid.

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: crazyewok

Yip. Stop us

Dont want too.

As I have said a US led world is better than a Chinese led world.

But the way the USA is going the Chinese will be taking the lead within this century.

a reply to: crazyewok

I realize you weren't talking to me, but I have to take issue with a few things you said. One, I wouldn't be so sure about the US "internal problems" being indicative of any kind of imminent end. If you are as much a student of history as you claim to be, you should know the current polarized climate in this country is neither unprecedented or even uncommon. The Civil War would just be too easy, but there was a ton of civil unrest here at many other times, such as during the Great Depression and during the Civil Rights era. It just gets more coverage now. It's nothing new. If anything, it's even less of a danger these days. Most of the "internal problems" here now are nonsense. We have it so good here we have to invent issues so people can have causes to fight for. People will agitate and posture, but very few people here would be willing to risk their prosperous livelihoods for a major civil conflict or something like that. As for China, we'll see. Even if China becomes the #1 economy, that won't stop the US from having influence outside North America.

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: crazyewok

I realize you weren't talking to me, but I have to take issue with a few things you said. One, I wouldn't be so sure about the US "internal problems" being indicative of any kind of imminent end. If you are as much a student of history as you claim to be, you should know the current polarized climate in this country is neither unprecedented or even uncommon. The Civil War would just be too easy, but there was a ton of civil unrest here at many other times, such as during the Great Depression and during the Civil Rights era. It just gets more coverage now. It's nothing new. If anything, it's even less of a danger these days. Most of the "internal problems" here now are nonsense. We have it so good here we have to invent issues so people can have causes to fight for. People will agitate and posture, but very few people here would be willing to risk their prosperous livelihoods for a major civil conflict or something like that. As for China, we'll see. Even if China becomes the #1 economy, that won't stop the US from having influence outside North America.

I never said civil war. A empire can end without any sort of war.

And I never said it was imminent only that it could happen within the next century or 50 years on its prsent course.

Rome died because of economic stagnation, politcal corruption and mass immigration.

a reply to: face23785

Non-issues are always just that until they become one. The truth is ignoring issues is a serious issue when nations are involved.

The civil rights movement in the US is a good'n, a nice history lesson for anyone wanting to study the power and powerlessness of the media.

People asked why women can't vote, why are some of us 2nd rate human beings and many got to see force used against a bunch of pot smoking hippies that wouldn't harm a fly.

It's a funny old world, that wave has settled on the shore now and the next wave of public agreement will be a tsunami, bigger than the wave that civil rights for all created... So get ya dinghy.

Anyways... Back on point. Nobody need risk conflict in a modern revolution. Not by those that agree with the need for change, we're all sacks of meat as crazywok put it and fundamentally we all agree on the basics. The US has been ripe for a "fall" or "ascension" if you will for a while. It'll happen when enough people "wake up" and think outside of the group paradigm.

Wasn't it Johnny Cash that sang you need to help that voice of youth find what is truth?

Keep telling them their issues are mute, as for China?

They can't keep their people dumb enough, I hope that by the time they are no1 they've had a revolution of sorts, in fact I've always figured the rock that'll begin the ripples will land there in the East.

Go ahead and call me a dreamer... The US wasn't always imperialistic either, things change.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: crazyewok

I realize you weren't talking to me, but I have to take issue with a few things you said. One, I wouldn't be so sure about the US "internal problems" being indicative of any kind of imminent end. If you are as much a student of history as you claim to be, you should know the current polarized climate in this country is neither unprecedented or even uncommon. The Civil War would just be too easy, but there was a ton of civil unrest here at many other times, such as during the Great Depression and during the Civil Rights era. It just gets more coverage now. It's nothing new. If anything, it's even less of a danger these days. Most of the "internal problems" here now are nonsense. We have it so good here we have to invent issues so people can have causes to fight for. People will agitate and posture, but very few people here would be willing to risk their prosperous livelihoods for a major civil conflict or something like that. As for China, we'll see. Even if China becomes the #1 economy, that won't stop the US from having influence outside North America.

I never said civil war. A empire can end without any sort of war.

And I never said it was imminent only that it could happen within the next century or 50 years on its prsent course.

Rome died because of economic stagnation, politcal corruption and mass immigration.

Ok when you said internal problems I thought you were referring to our civil unrest, as that's getting a lot of media coverage right now. I could make the same argument with the other issues you brought up though. We've had much worse economic times in the past. Political corruption has been rampant here since the founding, if anything it was worse because back then the public was less informed and there were very few laws stopping the rich elites from taking advantage of their positions. The only one I'll give you points on is immigration, although we're trying to take steps to mitigate that one, if our courts will let us. Of course, we "could" see a downfall if xyz happens but at this point we're basically playing weatherman, calling for a chance of showers.

? Where did the Navy Fighter Jet take-off from... Turkish airbase? or Iraqi airbase?


If the USA fighter launched from a carrier flight deck, that would be the best possible circumstance for the USA

if the Syrian jet fighter was downed by a flight from Iraq, then the USA & coalition aircraft had better be watching for ground to-air missiles as well as Iranian waves of suicide bombers swarming over the few tactical airfields used in Iraq

The Turks are ambivalent as to ISIS fighters getting straffed by Syrian air forces... but the USA presumably protectingISIS fighters against Assad is asinine way for a confrontation with Russian retaliatory measures (which now seem in effect)

I voiced my thoughts in an earlier post that Trump will be/is an arm-chair General...focused on Syria/Iran with anti-Turk leanings to boot... dangerous stuff

a reply to: St Udio

From the Bush carrier in the Mediterranean.

originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: St Udio

From the Bush carrier in the Mediterranean.

well then safe passage for future flights will be there over the Med. but only over Turkish airspace or in the Lebanese airspace south of Syria... both to & from (unlawful) targets in Syria or Iraq... that allows the piloted fighters safety for 90% of their flight time ~~~~ and deadly missiles or the feared EMP Weapon while in the Syrian airspace itself, likely less than 15 minutes total to acquire/bomb the target then scram...


I see more drones and cruise missiles being the main bombs being used...piloted aircraft less so

a reply to: allsee4eye

Yes, this is correct. I mistakenly said on the previous page the aircraft approached from the Southeast. Either way, US aircraft don't need to fly through the zone that Russia identified, so their threat is meaningless. It's just meant to look like they are responding so they don't look weak. The Kremlin and Washington both know nothing more will come of this incident now.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: crazyewok

I realize you weren't talking to me, but I have to take issue with a few things you said. One, I wouldn't be so sure about the US "internal problems" being indicative of any kind of imminent end. If you are as much a student of history as you claim to be, you should know the current polarized climate in this country is neither unprecedented or even uncommon. The Civil War would just be too easy, but there was a ton of civil unrest here at many other times, such as during the Great Depression and during the Civil Rights era. It just gets more coverage now. It's nothing new. If anything, it's even less of a danger these days. Most of the "internal problems" here now are nonsense. We have it so good here we have to invent issues so people can have causes to fight for. People will agitate and posture, but very few people here would be willing to risk their prosperous livelihoods for a major civil conflict or something like that. As for China, we'll see. Even if China becomes the #1 economy, that won't stop the US from having influence outside North America.

I never said civil war. A empire can end without any sort of war.

And I never said it was imminent only that it could happen within the next century or 50 years on its prsent course.

Rome died because of economic stagnation, politcal corruption and mass immigration.

Ok when you said internal problems I thought you were referring to our civil unrest, as that's getting a lot of media coverage right now. I could make the same argument with the other issues you brought up though. We've had much worse economic times in the past. Political corruption has been rampant here since the founding, if anything it was worse because back then the public was less informed and there were very few laws stopping the rich elites from taking advantage of their positions. The only one I'll give you points on is immigration, although we're trying to take steps to mitigate that one, if our courts will let us. Of course, we "could" see a downfall if xyz happens but at this point we're basically playing weatherman, calling for a chance of showers.

The problem is though small they all add up, death by a thousand cuts.

Its not irreversible at this point, the British empire had a wobbly spell where everything nearly collapsed around 1770 after the 7 year war, your revolution gave us a kick up the arse and we changed and ruled the world another 170 years before Hitler ruined it
So there is hope yet. The USA needs a kick up the arse in some way....well your media and politicans do.

I read that wrong to!
"Trump admin shot down ON SAA jet"
Blame Hillery Clinton!!!!
LOL

Just posting the official statement from CENTCOM, seems to not be in here.

The hornet that shot it down was operating from the George Bush CSG from what I read.

FOXNews
A U.S. defense official told Fox News that the Super Hornet that shot down the Syrian jet was based on board the USS George H.W. Bush, which is currently operating in the Mediterranean Sea. The official did not say which weapon was used to shoot down the Syrian plane.

Raqqa is in the eurphrates. It is basically saying if you extend your zone one bit more you will be targeted.

And Syria war is a proxy war between Russia and USA. How can you say it would occur with a one super power.

But whatever dude. You live your life I'll live mine.

a reply to: face23785

Trump didnt shoot down the plane an airforce pilot did. The Trump administration didnt do it either. Its called war.

Private: SAA Pilot Ali Fahd is with SDF in Tabqa & in good condition. Gen. Suheil Hassan (Tiger) negotiating with the Kurds to recover him.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: allsee4eye

Let's hope Syria takes a valuable lesson from this .. Obama is gone. Trump is actually serious about fighting ISIS.

Thats makes no #ing sense.


We are serious about attackinf ISIS.......so we are going to shoot down a Syrian jet attacking ISIS.

Your argument is all manner of WTF.

To claim Syria is only fighting ISIS is a complete lie.

It's possible to defeat ISIS and shoot down Syrian plains attacking your forces between their strikes against ISIS.

Syria is a giant proxy war for many nations, no one is there just to fight ISIS, US included; we're there to fight ISIS and stop Iranian control.

originally posted by: REalBEL
Raqqa is in the eurphrates. It is basically saying if you extend your zone one bit more you will be targeted.

And Syria war is a proxy war between Russia and USA. How can you say it would occur with a one super power.

But whatever dude. You live your life I'll live mine.

a reply to: face23785

It's not a proxy war between Russian and USA; but between Iran and USA.