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Hitlerisms

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posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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I've been noticing a trend for people to compare everything they don't like to Hitler. I saw an avatar with Bill Clinton's face split with one of Hitler's, and my eyes opened enough to see it's both sides doing this.

Hitler was a bad, bad, bad man. No one in a place of power has come near achieving his level of evil, and even those who may have enough checks and balances to prevent them from doing so that it won't happen. Especially in America unless 75% of the population supports the regime.

So why is this? I don't think Move On started this, though I do think they made it popular. I'm wondering both how people can belittle such a tragic period in history by applying such hatrid and evil to people whom it doesn't apply to. Soon, I expect, people will be talking and saying, "yeah, I don't like vanilla ice cream, it's totally Hitler."

One of the most tragic times in recent history is being belittled to a trendy catch phrase, and I wanna know why. Is there something else behind this driving the belittlement of the Nazi movement so it could repeat its self?

(Go a. and say Bush is behind this, but I'll not be replying to or even reading those posts. For the most part it's on the other side calling Bush such. I ask others to ignore (not through the button but in your own mind) this hatrid as there is no reasoning with blind hatrid.)




posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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Its not really a new thing tho, its a way in which people with weak irrational arguements can 'get one in' on their opposition.

Godwin's Rule usually applies, in which the first person in an argument to use a nazi analogy against the other side, has lost the arguement.

I too feel that refering to bush, or anyone else really, as 'hitler' denigrates and minimizes the horrors of the nazis and the holocaust.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 09:09 PM
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I'll tell ya what, our current regime can be compared to the Nazi regime. I'm hearing talk on the Internet about concentration camps, and talk about martial law and round-ups.

9/11 and the Reichstag fire happened under similar circumstances. The gummint stages the catastrophic event and points fingers at someone else.

Interesting note: I was born on the 40th anniversary of the Reichstag Fire....



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith...

We need believing people."

Sound familiar?

It's from an address by hitler, on 26 April, 1933. The parallels are sometimes a bit too obvious.

DE



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 09:35 PM
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There are always parallels if you choose to ignore other aspects. Hitler was saying that meaning non-Jew while Bush recognises faith of any kind can change people for the better despite themselves.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 09:59 PM
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It's quite clear what both want- unthinking herd to follow them. Non-secular education just makes that easier, as the Germans found out. At the time of that speech, I believe Jews were still allowed to practice their religion.

DE



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 10:44 PM
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"A single blow must destroy the enemy... without regard of losses... a gigantic all-destroying blow."
- Adolf Hitler

"Strength lies not in defense but in attack."
- Adolf Hitler

"Great liars are also great magicians"
- Adolf Hitler

"Demoralize the enemy from within by surprise, terror, sabotage, assassination. This is the war of the future."
- Adolf Hitler

"Germany is prepared to agree to any solemn pact of non-aggression, because she does not think of attacking but only acquiring security."
- Adolf Hitler (1933)

"We will not capitulate - no, never! We may be destroyed, but if we are, we shall drag a world with us - a world in flames."
- Adolf Hitler

"The German people are not a warlike nation. It is a soldierly one, which means it does not want a war, but does not fear it. It loves peace but also loves its honor and freedom"
- Adolf Hitler

"Only force rules. Force is the first law"
- Adolf Hitler

"The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category."
- Adolph Hitler (thats a classic..like the americans who believe that Iraq attacked the WTC!)

"Who says I am not under the special protection of God?"
- Adolph Hitler



It worked 70 years ago kiddies...and I have yet too see any true evolution in people to make me doubt that with a few "word" changes and modern references that it wouldn't work again...


"America has never been united by blood or birth or soil. We are bound by ideals that move us beyond our backgrounds, lift us above our interests and teach us what it means to be citizens. Every child must be taught these principles. Every citizen must uphold them. And every immigrant, by embracing these ideals, makes our country more, not less, American."
--George W. Bush






Never does bad music and bad ideas sound so good as when one marches against an enemy. - Nietzsche


There is no enemy anywhere - Lao Tse



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 11:02 PM
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Hey, you know how 125,00 troops with 500 tanks took an army of 325,00 troops with 2000 tanks? Hitler's battle plans. Blitzkreig. Hitler, with his tiny nation, took on the world and almost won. His plan was sound, and he was a smart fellah. The things he said and did moved and changed the world. However, that doesn't mean he wasn't evil. Hitler was a master of sociology. To assume someone expressing themselves in a way that moves people yet has parallels to a sociological master makes them a sociological master and no better than Hitler is foolish. There are natural leaders out there. Hitler was one, so were FDR and Reagan. Because Bush uses phrases Hitler used, you assume he is a Hitler. is foolish. If we were to decide that anything an evil, bad person said can't be said anymore, humans wouldn't be able to speak.

You will always be able to draw parallels to evil men when great men (women are included, I'm just using a pronoun) speak, because the evil men we're aware of had great speaking abilities. Bush may be an evil man. However, I don't believe this to be true based on his actions. I don't give a krump what he's said and that it's similar to Hitler. Hitler was a great manipulator of the people and would say what they needed to hear to bring him more power. Bush may be bad, he may be good; to base this on his words instead of his actions is foolishness and ignorance. I had more to say, but this frickin' cast called up the FireFox help ans I forgot where I was going with this. However, after rereading this, I think I made my point. Because someone's words are similar to a master manipulator, you shouldn't assume that person is a manipulator. There is a reason Hitler and other manipulators chose the words they used: Natural leaders use them.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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Reagan a great leader? Yeah, so is Paul Martin. Only difference is that Martin hasn't sold chemical weapons, pissed off the world, or given so-called 'hostile regimes' missile technology.

There is a much deeper parallel than the words, JJ. look at the Kryschtalnacht and 9/11- virtual carte blanche to vilify a group. several of the supposed 9/11 hijackers are still alive and protesting quite loudly.. Let's draw some more quick ones for you:

1. Since at least the 80's, the primary antagonists in many pieces of american pop culture have been Arabic, specifically stereotypical terrorists or poorly-armed raggedy mobs of people who hate 'freedom and liberty'. Look at how since 1900 to about 1945 the Jews were portrayed and vilified in German and Russian media.

2. Look at the ways the American troops are portrayed, and compare that to the displays at annual Nazi Party rallies. In both cases, soldiers commiting atrocities are revered.

3. Afghanistan in the 80s compared to the Spanish Civil War.

Neoconservatives and their religious supporters are turning your country into a slow-motion Nazi state. Stick your . in the sand, and you deserve exactly what you get.

DE

2.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 11:27 PM
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DeusEx,
You can downplay Reagan allday long for all I care, really.


But amazing how his instituted policies broke the back of Communist Russia, huh? Can you say, "Tear that wall down..."? Can you say democratic process? Maybe the changing of U.S.S.R. to simply Russia? The Eastern Europeans are now independent and not puppets. How about Germany is a whole country again.

The bad comes with the good and good comes with bad. Interpretation, as with History, is relative to the perspective, interpretation, and understanding of the one viewing.





seekerof



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 11:28 PM
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Deus, I respect you opinion, you are one of those few educated Bush haters out htere. However, okay. I'm gonna stick my . in the sand. I believe you're wrong. If that means, in your ., I'm sticking me . in the sand, so be it.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
But amazing how his instituted policies broke the back of Communist Russia, huh?

Really? I thought that in the 80's, the USSR was already on the brink of collapse with the Afghanistan invasion going so smoothly, and the fact that the soviet government was hemmoraging money. The view from here is that he simply was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Can you say, "Tear that wall down..."? Can you say democratic process? Maybe the changing of U.S.S.R. to simply Russia? The Eastern Europeans are now independent and not puppets. How about Germany is a whole country again.

Yeah, because look at all that crazy democracy in the Balkans, the peace the stability, the prosperity... Damn those soviet satellites are rich and democratic, what with their Kombinat governments and massive unemployment!

The bad comes with the good and good comes with bad. Interpretation, as with History, is relative to the perspective, interpretation, and understanding of the one viewing.


Yes, because the American perspective of one of its presidents is going to be pure and objective.

On topic again, I found this interesting link:

en.wikipedia.org...

Because the War on Terror is defensive...right?

DE




posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Hitler was a bad, bad, bad man. No one in a place of power has come near achieving his level of evil,


I think Milosevic and Hussein came close to achieving that evil.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 12:13 AM
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Like my firearms instructor said, Hitler was a boyscout compared to some of his contemporaries- Hojo, Stalin and Mao. No one has ANY clue how many people died because of Stalin's direct order. We DO know that the KGB killed hundreds, if not thousands of people externally and millions internally.

[EDIT] That doesn't mean Hitler wasn't bad, and didn't have plans to do much worse...it's just that the aforementioned folks actually got away with worse. I maintain my position that America is slowly sliding towards fascism and all the bad things that come with it.

DE

[edit on 6-2-2005 by DeusEx]



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 12:43 AM
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Voice of doom, for your post here you have got my vote for way above this month.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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It is my belief, and I don’t think many would disagree, that actions speak louder than words. Often I find that “Bush Bashers”(a name I have been called a few times) focus on the man as opposed to his administration. Bush is a front man, a covering on the can, the Golden arches, a symbol that Joe Blow citizen can relate to. That in itself is not bad, for every popular leader has had such a quality. But the actions of the men and women back at the factory, can be compared to the Nazi (or any fascist) regime.
I’m sure it’s been discussed before but I’ll beat the dead horse again.
The 14 defining Characteristics of fascism;

www.oldamericancentury.org...

Most are just obvious.
Just because The administration isn't commiting the atrosities of the nazi regime doesn't mean it's not behaving in similar ways. Lets us not forget that Hitler never gave written instructions to eliminate the jews. He mearly said something like "I would like something to be done about the jewish problem"



The other point of view, espoused by the "functionalists,(2) has argued that the "Final Solution" was decided upon only after many failed attempts to force Jews to emigrate from Germany and that the closure of possible destinations by the rest of the world combined with the logistical problems of such a massive deportation "forced" the "Final Solution" into existence. Further, these scholars suggest, Hitler's style of leadership, his demand for total loyalty from his subordinates (fuhrerprinzip) and the paranoia they engendered, caused subordinate SS agencies to come up with the Final Solution in early 1942.

www.mtsu.edu...

I don't intend to belittle the influance of men like hitler, but it is obvious that beruocracy and the corruption of the entire power structure is stronger than the will of that man.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
I too feel that refering to bush, or anyone else really,
as 'hitler' denigrates and minimizes the horrors of the
nazis and the holocaust.


Exactly. All the 'Nazi America' and Bush = Hitler' garbage
is so childish ... and so insulting to those who suffered
through Hitler and Nazi Germany. When people say
it, I can't help but picture a 20 year old, uneducated,
unemployed person who lives in his/her parents basement
with nothing better to do than to get on a computer
and pump out ignorance.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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So, flyersfan, how shall we analogize your country's slide into fascism without the most obvious parallel? Would you prefer Pinochet, perhaps Mussolini?

DE



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 06:14 PM
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It's completely rediculous to equate Bush with Hitler, obviously there will be some vague parallels, given that you can assume quite a few things, like Bush being behind 9/11. However, Bush hasn't followed "Facism for Dummies" close enough, he seemed to have forgotten the chapter on "Executing the Opposition" since John kerry is still free to go wind surfing and get his nails done.

Rather, the basis of of the statement stems from the simple fact that many people fail to see the difference between their opinions and fact. Using one or two line descriptions of historical events with far and long reaching impacts completely downplays the importance of the event and conveniently neglects to mention the hows and whys surrounding it. If I referenced a list of two line statements as the basis for my phsyics paper I would surely fail.

I think the true reason so many people these days are using the Bush/Hitler argument is because many of the people making these statements are too young to remember the second World War let alone the atrocities of the holocaust. However, they are raised to hate Hitler, facism, and racism in all it's forms but often they struggle with "the why" of their hatred. Hitler has turned into the handle bar mustached villain of silent movies, when you see him you're supposed to boo and hiss. It's not a far stretch of the imagination to assume that most young people aren't interested in the technicalities of the political process. When they hear their radical leftist college professor rant on and on for hours about the travesties of the last election all that stands out in their minds is "Bush = Hitler". Being of questionable intellect they simply parrot back what they thought they heard and eventually meet people their age who thought they heard the same thing. The Democrats and assorted leftist are chomping at the bit to get young voters into the booths and therefore capitalize on this and turn it into a fashion. Far be it from anyone to vote "wrong" people begin repeating the slogan of "Bush = Hitler".

Basically, using the "Bush is Hitler" argument is the same as attacking a poster's poor spelling. You have no case, you have no points, and the only person you're trying to convince is yourself.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 09:04 PM
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What about us folk who don't call bush hitler, rather point out the historic similarities that seem to show a slow-motion slide towards a police state?

Bush is demonized on the left just as much as anything else the right chooses to pick on, from homosexuals to an omnipresent media influence tellign us that all arabs are terrorists who hate freedom and America. You want to see parroting, listen to a conservative try to defend their anti-gay-marriage stance without using religion as a crutch.

I'm not trying to paint Bush as Hitler. I'm trying to point out the parallels of where your country is slowly going.

DE



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