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But isn't there a simple solution to free everything?

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posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: Kettu

No, I've never complained about my compensation or my employment, I've complained (as have most that I have seen complain) about having my money taken from that compensation in the form of taxes to cover the asses of those who don't put in the same effort I do. But please, if it helps you wrap your head around the concept of personal responsibility and "life is what YOU make out of it" by all means continue with your child-like delusion of this somehow being the problem and fault of those productively working rather than the problem and personal failures of those not.




posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:28 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye




The federal government is the creator of money. So why not, create as much money as is necessary, for the budget in every fiscal year, to provide free everything? Never mind free healthcare, but also free food and drinks, free movie tickets, free housing, free electricity, free university and college, simply by borrowing all those trillions and trillions from itself, and then, poof, at the end of the year when the payment to itself is due, write off its own debt to itself? Isn't this the ultimate form of society? Complete socialism the way Karl Marx has envisioned? The way society is supposed to ultimately evolve into as predicted by sociologists? A society where there is no poor, no resentment, no taxation?


First off. Good subject. I get the sense of a kind of Trekkie type government in you. That would be an awesome way to live. Everyone just following their interests and passions.
I don't think it is plausible because of what is being sold at the moment. Materialism. Greed. There are those among us that does not want to be the same as all the others. They like to think of themselves as better. Whether it is politics, religion, sports, you name it.

I think Madonna said it best. "I am living in a material world."
Most of the people in this world cannot "Imagine" any other way.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:29 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
That's why stores in socialist countries are always empty.


Stores in socialist countries are always empty because socialist dictators MUST walk a fine line between a population in starvation and desperation and one with just enough to get by to ensure they're too scared of losing what little they have to rock the boat. It has NOTHING to do with supply and demand and everything to do with the fact that socialism will always fail without heavy usage of the slave driver's whip to keep everyone on point and in line.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:32 PM
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This sort of thing is when inflation happens - if the money is being printed too fast, it becomes next to worthless. For example, the U.S. could print off enough money to pay China our debt back, but then the dollar would become worthless.

The money has to be based on something, to represent something of value, such as a work hour. In the past, it was backed up by gold.
edit on 16pmFri, 16 Jun 2017 21:35:28 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:33 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

Good point. Getting people dependent on social programs like Medicaid for the poor is another way to guarantee votes and remain in power.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:35 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Good point. Getting people dependent on social programs like Medicaid for the poor is another way to guarantee votes and remain in power.


Well, here's something we agree on. The left's Kept Voter initiatives have become a very serious problem in this country and do play a role in my position against this idea.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:37 PM
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Take Canada for example, we have some of the highest taxes in the world and some of the worst healthcare in the world, even though it's described as universal healthcare. Many Canadians head to the US for healthcare because, frankly, due to lack of competition, healthcare service is terrible in Canada.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:46 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye
Who are you gonna get to clean out your clogged sewer or replace your roof? You are going to have to trade something valuable if you want somebody to get your problem fixed in a timely manner. What would you have of value that a plumber or roofer couldn't just get themselves for free? Nobody is going out there and doing dirty or dangerous work for stars every day.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 10:19 PM
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The op is so altruistic believing the best of people. If Maslow's theory worked as he says, then generational welfare people would have become self actualized long ago, but they're pissed. They live in crappy section 8 housing, and cheat the system whenever possible.

As for working because we want to help people, that is true to an extent say in nursing. Bright eyed young men and women go into nursing to help others, but pull ungodly hours, wipe people's noses and asses to have the person spit in their face and call them an effing C***. I've experienced it for myself, and while there are great moments, there are tons of ungrateful jackasses demanding you do as they say every five minutes, and scream at you when you don't move fast enough for them all while trying to treat wounds five inches deep or someone having a seizure.

We are proving society is made up of lazy greedy users daily. No matter rich or poor people will take the easy way whenever possible. I guarantee you if I won the lottery, I'd quit tomorrow and do something altruistic, but until then, I will go to work and slip in pee on the floor Monday more than likely tear my hamstring again, and have to get up and take care of the patient who did it on purpose.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 10:24 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Good point. Getting people dependent on social programs like Medicaid for the poor is another way to guarantee votes and remain in power.


Well, here's something we agree on. The left's Kept Voter initiatives have become a very serious problem in this country and do play a role in my position against this idea.



I personally think if you are on welfare and living off the government you should not get to vote. Of course you vote for more and more free crap you don't work for while the stupid workers keep trudging along to feed their families. Take away welfare vote and a LOT would change after the cities stopped burning.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Suddenly a loaf of bread costs a wheelbarrow of money



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 10:42 PM
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originally posted by: 3daysgone

First off. Good subject. I get the sense of a kind of Trekkie type government in you. That would be an awesome way to live. Everyone just following their interests and passions.
I don't think it is plausible because of what is being sold at the moment. Materialism. Greed. There are those among us that does not want to be the same as all the others. They like to think of themselves as better. Whether it is politics, religion, sports, you name it.

I think Madonna said it best. "I am living in a material world."
Most of the people in this world cannot "Imagine" any other way.


Do you know why the Trekkie government works?

First off they have devices that materialize anything, whether it be food or equipment, no labor or skills required.

Second they are 200 years in the future and have further evolved.

Third, there is outside forces- hostile aliens that have brought humanity together.

Forth, it's fiction, and imagines almost a best case outcome.

So to sum up it has nothing remotely in common with the world we live in.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 10:43 PM
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First, we scrap money.

Then, make mandatory to work 4 years for community services, all things related to food, energy, etc. Control resources and maximize it, like instead of spilling excess milk every year so it doesn't devaluate, everybody gets milk.

Help people prepare for what they are best at. We all know we all aren't the greatest actors, so things would eventually filter themselves.

Everybody has above decent living quarters, no Al Gore mansion type allowed for anyone, no exceptions ever. Deal with it.

Properly explore the oceans. Properly prepare and do space exploration/colonization, etc. Add some details here and there and you get the idea.

The resources are already present. We already are extracting and processing. At this time of our history, for the last hundred years, money has been the plague that stops our evolution, period.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 10:54 PM
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originally posted by: NowanKenubi
First, we scrap money.

Then, make mandatory to work 4 years for community services, all things related to food, energy, etc. Control resources and maximize it, like instead of spilling excess milk every year so it doesn't devaluate, everybody gets milk.

Help people prepare for what they are best at. We all know we all aren't the greatest actors, so things would eventually filter themselves.

Everybody has above decent living quarters, no Al Gore mansion type allowed for anyone, no exceptions ever. Deal with it.

Properly explore the oceans. Properly prepare and do space exploration/colonization, etc. Add some details here and there and you get the idea.

The resources are already present. We already are extracting and processing. At this time of our history, for the last hundred years, money has been the plague that stops our evolution, period.


Yeah, um you don't get it. Why do dictators exist? Why do mob bosses exist? Why does George soros fund hundreds of political movements? They don't want to be equal, and they don't give a damn about laws stopping them, they find ways to be above the law.

Like it or not, we are animals. We just pretend we aren't. The fittest survive, power corrupts, and we aren't equal.

Some fake veneer where everyone pretends this is not true, does not convince many who know the truth. Until you can read minds and are willing to kill the selfish, which I submit to you is the vast majority your plan cannot work.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 11:02 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

The only way a system that you're suggesting (everything is free) would work is:

1) We'd need unlimited energy that costs literally nothing to produce, and cost virtually nothing in research and development.

2) Complete and easy transmutation that can make any and everything (powered by that free energy). This was mentioned before as the Star Trek devices.

3) Everything must be controlled and maintained by machines of some sort....including the machines that take care of other machines.

4) There can not be any conflict, no diseases, no hunger, and humans must want for nothing (humans have always wanted something going back before written history, so good luck there).

5) People must never want recognition for anything. Getting even praise for one's work, art or discovery must never happen, as that in itself is a form of "payment".

Even in the fictional land of Star Trek, there is money (what? None of you remember Gold Pressed Latinum? pppt! and y'all call yourselves Trekkies!). There is still an economy that works in the way it works......and as a work of fiction, we never see any of the dark things that exist....because: FICTION!

There's a good reason in the tens of thousands of years humans have never had a utopia where everything is free and everyone is happy: it doesn't exist in this universe.

Not even with animals.

Not even with the universe itself. There is always some sort of give and take. Nothing is free. Total energy? Sure, just touch that mater and antimater....but it will cost you: they will both cease to exist as they completely convert to energy.

Look at all the heat and energy a star gives off....hey that's free, right?

Nope.

Look at how much hydrogen it took to make the star in the first place to have fusion....and then guess what? Eventually most of that hydrogen will be gone and the star's life will be over with. Sure, might be tens of millions of years (for huge stars) and billions of years for the smaller ones.....but it's still all about give and take.....and kind of economy.

They utopia you're dreaming of is just that: a dream. We certainly are not there yet technology wise and even if we were, there would still be a major culture problem to over come.

So no: it's not easy.....and most likely damn near impossible. There will always be some sort of barter system, a system of give and take.

Nothing is free.

Ever.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 11:35 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Doesn't work that way though. The Federal Government doesn't make money. It borrows money from Central banks. So the Federal Government actually creates Debt.

The Banks on the other hand Create the Money that they lend out.

That money when paid back however includes Interest which isn't created when that money is loaned out and must come from some other place. Most likely from some other loan.

As you might notice with such a system that the longer it goes on this way and the more loans are taken out the more expensive it becomes to pay back. Which is obviously not going to be possible since none of the Interest was ever created for any of the loans being created.

In the end, even if everyone paid back every last penny of borrowed money we'll all still be in debt because of the Interest which would be left.



posted on Jun, 17 2017 @ 12:11 AM
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a reply to: UnifiedSerenity

I've said as much myself. Of course the argument gets perverted into "gasp! You don't believe retired people and those who have worked their lives but presently find themselves unemployed should be allowed to vote!?!?!" To be blunt, I believe voting should have a qualification test tied to it that requires both a minimum degree of voter education and a minimum threshold of skin in the game. We'd find much lower taxes and a libertarian government in place if that were the case.



posted on Jun, 17 2017 @ 12:43 AM
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a reply to: eriktheawful

*ahem*

It's called "Trekker" and GPL is used outside the Federation. It's used because it can't be replicated using the replicator (that basically is a transporter with computer programmed molecular patterns).

Some things are just to large for a home-based replicator, and some cultures don't use replicators. You can't exactly replicate a moon or real estate. When Starfleet personnel are on shore leave or outside the Federation, they need something of value to exchange, hence GLP.

There are other units of currency in the Star Trek universe as well such as the Darsek of the Klingon Empire. It remains to be seen if the divergent timeline created by JJ Abrams will introduce a form of currency, as TOS only had "food syntheizers" which really weren't true replicators ala TNG, DS9 or Voyager.



posted on Jun, 17 2017 @ 12:47 AM
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Even in the Star Trek Universe there's still a barter system.
Now where's my gold-pressed latinum?



posted on Jun, 17 2017 @ 12:56 AM
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I have an even easier solution...

Remove all warning labels and shoot all the personal injury attorneys.

The problem will sort itself out fairly quickly.




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