It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Breaking: US Navy destroyer takes on water after collision off Japanese coast

page: 3
54
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:47 PM
link   
a reply to: roadgravel

Could be an accident but I remain suspicious.




posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:48 PM
link   
Believe it or not, yes, even in this day an age, collisions on the water can happen, even with military vessels.

The only thing we know for sure right now is:

It happened very early in the morning local time (some time after 2 am, so it was dark).
The cargo ship hit the naval vessel amid ships (crossing the T so to speak).
The names of the ships.

How could this of happened?

Several reasons:

1) Bridge crew assumed that the cargo ship was in the proper lane and would not hit them....when they realized their mistake (or the cargo ship's mistake), there could have been several reasons for not getting out of the way.

2) We don't know the weather. We know it was dark, could have been foggy. There could have been a problem with the naval vessels nav radar....and as bad luck would have it, the same with the cargo vessel.....so literally neither ship saw each other until it was too late. That cargo ship will not turn very fast.

3) Even if they saw the cargo ship coming, there could of been several reasons the US Naval vessel didn't move. Even with gas turbine engines, it can take a bit to get them going, and for all we know they were having an issue that was being worked on. You don't just turn the keys, start the engine, put it in gear an go. It's a ship, not a car....nor a speed boat.

4) Could be that the US ship was anchored outside the normal shipping lane, and the cargo ship was well outside the lane.

5) Could be that the US ship's crew screwed up and parked the ship inside the shipping lane, thinking that they were not.

So yeah....even with today's advanced tech, on either ship, it's quite possible to still get a collision.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:49 PM
link   
If a container ship with top speed of maybe 16 knots can manage to purposely ram a US DDG then something is wrong.
edit on 6/16/2017 by roadgravel because: typo



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:54 PM
link   
a reply to: jafo1973

No offence to the destroyer crew.

But, assuming you were planning to ram a merchant ship into a US warship, why would you use a huge lumbering container ship to go after a nimble destroyer, rather than try to take out a more prestigious target that you might have a better chance of hitting ... such as a US aircraft carrier ?

Not that US carriers are slow by any means ... but they sure are a bigger target.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: eriktheawful
Believe it or not, yes, even in this day an age, collisions on the water can happen, even with military vessels.

The only thing we know for sure right now is:

It happened very early in the morning local time (some time after 2 am, so it was dark).
The cargo ship hit the naval vessel amid ships (crossing the T so to speak).
The names of the ships.

How could this of happened?

Several reasons:

1) Bridge crew assumed that the cargo ship was in the proper lane and would not hit them....when they realized their mistake (or the cargo ship's mistake), there could have been several reasons for not getting out of the way.

2) We don't know the weather. We know it was dark, could have been foggy. There could have been a problem with the naval vessels nav radar....and as bad luck would have it, the same with the cargo vessel.....so literally neither ship saw each other until it was too late. That cargo ship will not turn very fast.

3) Even if they saw the cargo ship coming, there could of been several reasons the US Naval vessel didn't move. Even with gas turbine engines, it can take a bit to get them going, and for all we know they were having an issue that was being worked on. You don't just turn the keys, start the engine, put it in gear an go. It's a ship, not a car....nor a speed boat.

4) Could be that the US ship was anchored outside the normal shipping lane, and the cargo ship was well outside the lane.

5) Could be that the US ship's crew screwed up and parked the ship inside the shipping lane, thinking that they were not.

So yeah....even with today's advanced tech, on either ship, it's quite possible to still get a collision.


Whatever. Sure anything is possible.

I think it more probable intentional, until I hear or read something that says different I lean toward intentional attack.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:56 PM
link   
a reply to: eriktheawful

Excellent analysis.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheShippingForecast
a reply to: jafo1973

No offence to the destroyer crew.

But, assuming you were planning to ram a merchant ship into a US warship, why would you use a huge lumbering container ship to go after a nimble destroyer, rather than try to take out a more prestigious target that you might have a better chance of hitting ... such as a US aircraft carrier ?

Not that US carriers are slow by any means ... but they sure are a bigger target.


Surprise attack. Who would anticipate such an attack?



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:59 PM
link   
That damage look like it got hit by some sort of flying ball.

Where is that cargo ship btw.......
edit on 16-6-2017 by Pandaram because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:00 PM
link   
Is this fake news? This one is hard to swallow. Unbelievable.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:02 PM
link   
a reply to: jafo1973

I guess you could think that.

But as another poster just said: why would you use a lumbering cargo ship?

IF the US Naval vessel had nothing wrong with it, and her crew was paying attention, there is no way in hell that cargo ship would have been able to ram the destroyer.

Having served on old boiler tin cans myself (Cootz class), I'm here to tell you that even with boilers you can move quickly (as long as the boilers are fired up and making good steam).

The cargo ship, even at top speed would take time, a LONG time to even start turning....quite a while after the bridge crew threw her rudder hard to starboard or port. Physics is a bitch when it comes to something that masses that much. Inertia says: Nope. No way. You get to wait.

So if it was intentional.......there would have to be one hell of a conspiracy: Somehow the cargo ship knew the US destroy would not be able to move out of the way, either because they had someone do sabotage....or because they had some really advanced intelligence.

Occam's Razor says: more than likely this is going to turn out to be a collection of errors made by both ships that resulted in the collision.


edit on 6/16/2017 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/16/2017 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/16/2017 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:05 PM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:08 PM
link   
Recent reports are saying 7 crew members still missing. That's really bad.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheShippingForecast
a reply to: jafo1973

But, assuming you were planning to ram a merchant ship into a US warship, why would you use a huge lumbering container ship to go after a nimble destroyer, rather than try to take out a more prestigious target that you might have a better chance of hitting ... such as a US aircraft carrier ?

Not that US carriers are slow by any means ... but they sure are a bigger target.


It would be unlikely they could get close. Destroyers often work alone (for example, USS Cole); carriers never do. They are surrounded by support ships in a configuration designed to protect the carrier. Obviously they can't always be in formation, but they are less likely than a lone destroyer to not be, so opportunity-wise, it won't happen often. As a capital ship, a lot more goes into protecting them. Also not a small point: Carriers are 100,000 tons and they are far faster than a destroyer or official estimates.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:12 PM
link   
a reply to: eriktheawful

I agree. Errors. Big ones, however I wonder if the radars of both ships were operating correctly. Interference while plotting courses?

Of course the steaming lights of the merchant vessel would be seen from miles away so the watch should have posted an alarm I would imagine. I can't see that a large merchant vessel would be sailing under "darken ship". I can see that a destroyer may be at the time in exercises.

My thoughts,

kind regards,

bally



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: khnum
The ACX chrystal is a whopping great container ship you'd see 30 miles away,something is seriously wrong here.

I was thinking the same thing when I saw this on CNN. I hope no one is seriously injured.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:22 PM
link   
a reply to: schuyler

Oh I know. My Father once served on a British frigate which so struggled to keep up with a US carrier in heavy weather in the North Atlantic that it became the laughing stock of the Royal Navy.

This merchant ship couldn't deliberately ram a huge aircraft carrier, still less a much smaller destroyer.

Even if the merchant ship's crew were negligent in their duties and ploughing on regardless of other traffic, quite why the US warship didn't take avoiding action I don't know. A real puzzle.

I'm sorry to learn that men are missing.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:25 PM
link   
a reply to: bally001

We don't know yet the status of their radars. Could be the destroyer's was down (repairs or maintenance) and the cargo ship's was up....but no one was paying attention to it.

Visual: again, this happened while it was dark. And while I agree that navigational lights should of been seen on both ships, we've not been told what the weather was. Was it foggy? Was it raining? Both will affect being able to see those lights.

This really could just be the cargo ship and destroyer saw each other, but for some reason the destroyer could not move....and the cargo ship assumed that the destroyer would move........and by the time they (the cargo ship) realized the destroyer was not moving, it could have been too late to do anything that would stop the collision. Again: that much mass moving has inertia. A LOT of it. You can't just turn the ship quickly, nor can you just throw it in reverse and expect it to suddenly stop.


edit on 6/16/2017 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: khnum
The ACX chrystal is a whopping great container ship you'd see 30 miles away,something is seriously wrong here.


The Navy vessel has damage on her starboard side - any 2 vessels whose bearings of each other do not appreciably change suggest a collusion may occur - the vessel which has the other on her starboard side shall GIVE WAY.

The container ship is required to stand-on and not change her course - this is a law that has existed since well before the advent of radio and it works perfectly.

Japan is crazy-town shipping, and fishing and everything else that floats.

If both vessels were in a shipping lane, then certain other rules apply.

On the face of it, the Navy vessel may have been at fault in the collusion - size of vessel etc is irrelevant, I would bet the container ship maintained course/speed and had the naval vessel on radar for at least 20 mins before the event.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:31 PM
link   
a reply to: eriktheawful

Certainly. Conditions at the time would be a consideration. I understand large vessels cannot stop or turn quickly. I am probably, like others here, attempting to find an answer for this accident. (Ex navy thinking of the missing crew).

Thanks for your reply,

bally



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:41 PM
link   
It appears that the Naval vessel may also have had the container ship on radar but has taken action to avoid collusion TOO LATE which has resulted in the damage being approximately at the midships position - like a T-bone.



new topics

top topics



 
54
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join