Guilty Verdict in Teen 'Suicide-by-Text' Case

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

No she did not, no argument there..I think she is due some penalty, 20 yrs in jail probably not but what do you think?

a reply to: vonclod

Personally I would say no jail time. The extent of her crime was texting. The man decided by his own free will to end his own life.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Ok, fair enough..like I said I figure she is due something but I'm not sure what..it is a slippery slope, if she had not been in contact with him in real time I might feel as you do.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Ok, fair enough..like I said I figure she is due something but I'm not sure what..it is a slippery slope, if she had not been in contact with him in real time I might feel as you do.

I agree with you. I get the same feeling. What she did was wrong. But I nonetheless must override my feelings here. Punishing someone for a crime they did not commit is a grave injustice. They blame lies solely on the person who ended his life, and that was him.

Just like Amanda Todd. Her own fault she died.
en.wikipedia.org...


Also Charles Manson is innocent. INNOCENT!
Although he did kill a chicken once

It's unfair to expect a teenager to carry the weight of an adult under pressure like the abuse from those texts. He was clearly vulnerable and, it seems like desensitizing children is the popular thing to do these days, because there's a lot of nasty brats out there who don't think before opening their mouths. It's rampant throughout the educational system to a level never before seen.

It's a sad day for humanity when people cannot take responsibility for their own actions. If you're old enough to be a prick and hurt someone else or, whatever, you're old enough to deal with the consequences of your own actions.

a reply to: silo13

I fail to see a criminal charge here. I am of the belief that it was suicide plain and simple. The old addage we used to get told by our parents comes to mind of " if your friends told you to jump off a bridge would you do it? and the point of that was you are responsible for your own actions. Just because she texted him to do this doesn't mean he had to. It was ultimately his decision. I can see a civil wrongful death lawsuit, but not a criminal involuntary manalaughter conviction. That is ridiculous.

a reply to: norhoc


I feel as though there is criminality here, but the possible 20 years maximum security for manslaughter is a punishment in no way befitting the crime in my opinion. There either needs to be a new law on the books to deal with electronic urging of someone to hurt themselves or others or the involuntary manslaughter charges should be amended to reflect this eventuality.


Obviously I am not a lawyer, but I personally feel like this crime fits better under the umbrella of criminal negligence with being open to civil liabilities as well. I could see a sentence of 5-10 in light security and/or house arrest being sufficient in this case.

a reply to: silo13

Your second case really is the one that bothers me. So if I happen to see a burning building and hear people screaming for help inside I am required to help in some way? I don't carry a cell phone, and good luck finding a payphone in this age. Sorry but I'm going to assume help has been already summoned because by time I would be able to report it would be too late. By that case law if no other actions are available to me I have to run into that burning building to attempt rescue or be charged in their deaths?

originally posted by: Nyaghogghua
Just like Amanda Todd. Her own fault she died.
en.wikipedia.org...


Also Charles Manson is innocent. INNOCENT!
Although he did kill a chicken once

Charles Manson is a poor analogy. He was convicted for 'murder by proxy' (when someone directs the murder of another person....much like someone hiring a hitman).

'Suicide by proxy' is when someone convinces someone else to end their life for them, so it doesn't apply to this case.

In the case of Amanda Todd, it is 'cyberbullying' that has been suggested for criminalization. Also, this was in Canada. And I don't believe anyone was charged with her murder or manslaughter.

a reply to: Darkphoenix77

I just fail to see criminal here. I can ask or tell you to do anything I want, but , ultimately it is up to you as to whether or not to commit the action. This is yet another instance of shirking personal responsibility. Now if see physically forced him to kill himself than yes there is criminality.

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You're not addressing the issue. The issue is whether she violated the law. She clearly did. The law for manslaughter doesn't require you to have physically committed the act that killed the person.

I believe the issue is was it homicide or suicide? It cannot be both. Either she killed him or he killed himself. No matter how much she encouraged him she did not coerce him to do anything. Coercion is the act of forcing someone to act in a involuntary manner by threat of force. Keywords are involuntary and threat. The troubled man did not face retribution of force if he did not commit suicide. Only if he believed that she would finish the job so to speak would it have been coercion.

I believe the troubled man committed suicide. It was not involuntary, he had intent to do so. I also believe that if anyone was culpable, it would be the people that bore the burden of care for this troubled young man. Which I do believe would be his parents.

It's a very dangerous precedent to state that this girl bear the weight of responsibility for this boy. They are both minors.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I believe she committed no crime... If her morals believe she did wrong, she will punish herself...

[sarcasm]
Maybe force her to read the public outcry to kill herself, and if she doesn't kill herself, shoot her.
[/sarcasm]

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: Darkphoenix77

I just fail to see criminal here. I can ask or tell you to do anything I want, but , ultimately it is up to you as to whether or not to commit the action. This is yet another instance of shirking personal responsibility. Now if see physically forced him to kill himself than yes there is criminality.

The criminality comes in because she knew that he was killing himself and did not tell or inform anyone that he was doing it. Like I said, I personally think that manslaughter charges are a bit harsh, but I do see negligence that led to his committing suicide.

a reply to: jholt5638

The man in the second case owned the nightclub. He was afraid of getting in trouble - so he ran instead of helping people out and/or calling the fire department.

peace

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

That's like saying the guy who hired a hit man to kill his wife is charged for "no more than hiring an employee".

No it isn't. The guy killed himself with his own hands, his own methods and by his own choice.

But was it his own choice? From the texts, seems it was her choice, that she pushed on him. Yes, he did make the final decision, but her actions, her words, greatly contributed to what he did, and thus, to her conviction for manslaughter. Doesn't mean he wasn't also responsible, just that the responsibility was shared. She even discussed the method, location, etc, with him.

Yes, there is a small difference. For hiring a hit man, one could be charged with murder. In this case, she was charged with manslaughter. Lesser offense, but the same end result.

I truly hope she actually feels some remorse over this, some real guilt, and does what she can to show that actions such as hers are wrong. How many times do we read about people online goading others to kill themselves? Our actions do have consequences, and words can hurt as much as sticks and stones. For someone with emotional issues, already somewhat suicidal, her words were even more powerful. I wouldn't personally be pushed that way, because I am stubborn, and don't respond well to pushing, but many people will listen, and end up acting based on the pressure from others. That's why peer pressure is such a serious topic.

To those defending this woman, a couple of points I would like to make.

What is the purpose of jail in our society?

The main one seems to be protection of the pubic from certain people who would do them harm, followed by, punishment and rehabilitation.

Does this woman pose a threat to the public, based on her actions in this case?

I would say yes.

Ask yourself this, would you be happy with a kid of yours dating her?

If the answer is no and its because you would worry about the emotional state of your kid and the potential harm she may cause them, then you must accept that she needs to be in jail until she is no longer a threat to anyone else's child too.


That's my view on it, jail her. All she did was text, but quite a few sexual predators are arrested, tried and imprisoned for texts and emails. You wouldn't want them free, would you?

Interesting case. Two wrongs dont make a right.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Metallicus

Normally I would agree with you that it is a dangerous precedent, however, this vile woman clearly went out of her way to manipulate a mentally ill man that she supposedly 'loved' to kill himself.

It doesn't take a genius to recognize that what she did was plain wrong.

This was no accident.

I'm not saying it wasn't wrong, I'm saying it wasn't manslaughter. Manslaughter is when you kill someone.

Perhaps in your nation, but here in the States, that's entirely incorrect.

Something about stop thinking with feelings....

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

If you suggest the world is too populated people here at ATS will tell you to be the first in line to off yourself.

They should all be arrested and charged with at least misdemeanors.

Lets put everyone in jail for what they say.