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Guilty Verdict in Teen 'Suicide-by-Text' Case

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posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:08 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krakatoa




Fact: The judge in the case disagrees with your interpretation of the law.


Sorry but I'm not interpreting the law here, and I don't care if you act obsequiously towards some judge. The facts are he committed suicide, and she killed no one. Do you agree?


No. I do not agree (and the court agrees with me). She, as proven by trial, had a part in his death. A part just as if she was there and manually assisted him in that action. He is responsible for his own death, I have never debated that, and it is not the topic of discussion here, now is it?




Not a trial by jury though. Keep that in mind. I still don't believe 12 jurors would have found her guilty.

And I still think this should have been handled in civil court and she probably should have been found liable by a certain percentage. The rest, being his responsibility.


Jury trial in this case is irrelevant. She, herself, waived that right (likely at the suggestion of her legal council). So that is a moot point here.




posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:08 PM
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originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: MotherMayEye

So using your train of logic (or how I perceive it) you wouldn't help someone who asked you to assist their suicide. Because you wouldn't want to get in trouble?

Let's sat you were coerced into helping someone commit suicide and that person stopped part way through telling you they were scared and changed their mind?

Would you stop supporting them and think to yourself, 'Wow, when it comes right down to it he/she really doesn't want to do it? Or, 'Maybe he/she is just doing this for attention from me and I better stop it now?" "Maybe I should call someone to help?"

Or, would you tell that person to "get back in your truck and do it this time" while you can hear them coughing, choking the obvious sound of the generator in the background?

I'm not judging or pulling the right or wrong card here (in your case), just questions I’m tossing out you're under no obligation to answer of course.

peace


I would need to know more. I didn't hear all the evidence and arguments.

Surely, every conversation they had didn't take place via texts.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krakatoa




Fact: The judge in the case disagrees with your interpretation of the law.


Sorry but I'm not interpreting the law here, and I don't care if you act obsequiously towards some judge. The facts are he committed suicide, and she killed no one. Do you agree?


No. I do not agree (and the court agrees with me). She, as proven by trial, had a part in his death. A part just as if she was there and manually assisted him in that action. He is responsible for his own death, I have never debated that, and it is not the topic of discussion here, now is it?




Not a trial by jury though. Keep that in mind. I still don't believe 12 jurors would have found her guilty.

And I still think this should have been handled in civil court and she probably should have been found liable by a certain percentage. The rest, being his responsibility.


Jury trial in this case is irrelevant. She, herself, waived that right (likely at the suggestion of her legal council). So that is a moot point here.



Oh, I know she did. I have already stated that was horribly stupid.

But, it still matters to me in my opinion on this verdict.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: FamCore

Erm, do ya got a better source besides a satire of Wikipedia?


Yes her own tweets, like i posted on page 3: check out the eternal links.

here you go: archive.is...://twitter.com/michyc4*



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krakatoa




No. I do not agree (and the court agrees with me). She, as proven by trial, had a part in his death. A part just as if she was there and manually assisted him in that action. He is responsible for his own death, I have never debated that, and it is not the topic of discussion here, now is it?


What nonsense. No, it is not just as if she was their assisting him.


Again, you are being ignorant of FACTS. The judge agrees it is the same.

At this point, I do think this is an open attempt to simply disagree to disagree on your part.

As such, I think this thread has run it's course in my mind.

Have a nice day.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: proximo



This does set a scary precedent to me. Does this lead to someone on twitter telling someone to kill themselves being charged if they do it? This is a slippery slope, and nobody telling me to kill myself is ever going to be successful.



Just imagine if all the people telling Trump to die or kill himself were held to these standards if he did?



Slippery slope indeed!



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
But she still did not put him in the situation to cause his own death. That's why I chose that analogy.

He put himself in that situation.


Actually, she did. She texted him repeatedly, when he was out with family, goading him into "doing it". she pushed and pushed and pushed. When he chickened out, and exited the vehicle, she told him to get back in.



And he texted her...after much communication where he wanted her to encourage and support him.


Fro what we can see of the texts, in that video, 'he wasn't seeking encouragement to kill himself, and wanted to be talked out of it. She, on the other hand, was overboard in not just encouraging, but actively pushing him into the decision. When someone wants to be talked out of suicide, they talk to someone about it. When they want to just do it, they don't tell anyone.



I actually hate having to defend my position on this, because I don't think she is worthy of that.

But I don't think she is guilty of causing his death...he is.


Of course, he bore some responsibility for his actions. No one her is saying otherwise. However, she also bears responsibility, because she pushed him to kill himself. He was unsure, and she spent long hours pushing him into doing it. In the end, she talked him back in, when he was trying to stop.

She knew what she was doing. She admitted this. She claimed she loved him, but wanted him to die. Her actions were not simply criminal; they were utterly evil. I agree with those who have labeled her a psychopath. I hope she spends a very long time in prison.

I am curious; do you support assisted suicide, and if so, does that affect your opinion on this case?
edit on 16-6-2017 by LadyGreenEyes because: typo



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Why are you asking questions that are relevant to a murder trial? She was charged with involuntary manslaughter. I'll post it again. Maybe if I post it enough times you will stop forcing yourself to be stupid and not understand it:

Involuntary manslaughter
1) An unlawful killing that was unintentionally caused as the result of the defendants' wanton or reckless conduct


Do you see anywhere in there that she had to physically perform the act that caused his death? No you don't, because it's not there. It's NOT there. This is what's known as a fact. Are you familiar with facts? The law doesn't require what you are arguing she didn't do. It doesn't require it. It doesn't require it. Maybe if I say this enough times it will sink in. THE LAW DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT SHE PHYSICALLY PERFORMED THE ACT THAT KILLED HIM. This will NEVER change. Nevvvvvver. Never ever ever ever. Nothing you say will change it, from now until the end of time. I know you can understand. I am absolutely certain you are not so stupid that you can't understand this. You are simply forcing yourself to ignore it. This is childish behavior, pretending reality doesn't exist.

I apologize for my frustration, I just get irritated in the face of such rampant ignorance. I can't stand when someone presented with a very simple fact just . chooses to pretend it doesn't exist. At this point I'm half wondering if you're trolling me. If you are, congrats, you got me good. Regardless, the point you're trying to make is irrelevant. If you can't accept that you need counseling. I've got better things to do than to explain this to you 40 different ways until you can grow up and accept it.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: Krakatoa




Again, you are being ignorant of FACTS. The judge agrees it is the same.

At this point, I do think this is an open attempt to simply disagree to disagree on your part.

As such, I think this thread has run it's course in my mind.

Have a nice day.


No you are being ignorant of the facts. The man committed suicide. The defendant killed no one.

Enjoy.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: Nyaghogghua

Jolly good. Thanks.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:18 PM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
But she still did not put him in the situation to cause his own death. That's why I chose that analogy.

He put himself in that situation.


Actually, she did. She texted him repeatedly, when he was out with family, goading him into "doing it". she pushed and pushed and pushed. When he chickened out, and exited the vehicle, she told him to get back in.



And he texted her...after much communication where he wanted her to encourage and support him.


Fro what we can see of the texts, in that video, 'he wasn't seeking encouragement to kill himself, and wanted to be talked out of it. She, on the other hand, was overboard in not just encouraging, but actively pushing him into the decision. When someone wants to be talked out of suicide, they talk to someone about it. When they want to just do it, they don't tell anyone.



I actually hate having to defend my position on this, because I don't think she is worthy of that.

But I don't think she is guilty of causing his death...he is.


Of course, he bore some responsibility for his actions. No one her is saying otherwise. However, she also bears responsibility, because she pushed him to kill himself. He was unsure, and she spent long hours pushing him into doing it. In the end, she talked him back in, when he was trying to stop.

She knew what she was doing. She admitted this. She claimed she loved him, but wanted him to die. Her actions were not simply criminal; they were utterly evil. I agree with those who have labeled her a psychopath. I hope she spends a very long time in prison.

I am curious; do you support assisted suicide, and if so, does that affect your opinion on this case?


That's your take on it! Have you ever been suicidal? I have and I am telling you he was NOT seeking her approval! He was so desperate at the thought of losing her that in his sick twisted reality that he thought threatening to kill himself would make her come back to him and life would be as he wanted it!

He played his cards and he is dead! Has anyone thought about the mental BS this girl might have went thru trying to just break up with him?



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: seeker1963
It is scary. The number of young people I see that are on a boat load of medications for the diagnoses of Anxiety Disorder, Depression, Bi-Polar, ADHD, OCD, and more, is staggering. What is even worse is the number of them that are on SSI because of these diagnoses. These children are being given a future of life long medications and a high likelihood of death by over dose. They are given no responsibility and they think they are invincible, and accountable to no one.

Young people today have the mentality at 20 that you would have expected of an 8 year old in the 50's. I was looking at an episode of "The Rifleman" with my mom the other day. Poor Mark was being chastised by Luke for not doing his chores. There wasn't many, he just had to get up in the dark, feed and water the chickens and the livestock. Come back to the house, wash, dress, and walk a couple of miles to and from school, before coming home to do his real chores. My mother almost fell out of her chair when I told her that Lucas would be locked up for child abuse, and Mark would be placed in foster care if he tried to get away with that today.

You are right. We are leaving the future generations one fine legacy. I made a thread about this a while back. It doesn't seem to be getting better.
edit on 16-6-2017 by NightSkyeB4Dawn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: face23785

Did she kill him? or did he commit suicide?



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:21 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krakatoa




Fact: The judge in the case disagrees with your interpretation of the law.


Sorry but I'm not interpreting the law here, and I don't care if you act obsequiously towards some judge. The facts are he committed suicide, and she killed no one. Do you agree?


No. I do not agree (and the court agrees with me). She, as proven by trial, had a part in his death. A part just as if she was there and manually assisted him in that action. He is responsible for his own death, I have never debated that, and it is not the topic of discussion here, now is it?




Not a trial by jury though. Keep that in mind. I still don't believe 12 jurors would have found her guilty.

And I still think this should have been handled in civil court and she probably should have been found liable by a certain percentage. The rest, being his responsibility.


Jury trial in this case is irrelevant. She, herself, waived that right (likely at the suggestion of her legal council). So that is a moot point here.



Oh, I know she did. I have already stated that was horribly stupid.

But, it still matters to me in my opinion on this verdict.


I agree this case screams hung jury to me, if the jury selection process was done correctly by her lawyer.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:24 PM
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Tragic but....

He didn''t have to read the text, he didn't have to listen to her, He wasen't forced to stay in the truck. He could have stopped the process at any time.


He didn't want to live so he killed himself.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: silo13

No it is just texting on a phone if he didn't like it he could of blocked her or just ignore it.

Personal accountability is gone these days.

I don't think what she did was right or unpunishable but it's not manslaughter.

This sets a very dangerous precedent.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn


I don't like to talk about my journey thru my taking Big Pharm psychiatric drugs much, because they sent me to a very dark place. However, the morality that was taught to me by my parents and my so called religious upbringing always was forefront in those time of my anger and delusional states compliment of those drugs! I must say though, someone was watching over me, and I learned from those moments in hell and try to bring balance in these types of arguments where people who have never dealt with these drugs just do NOT understand!


Yet a young girl most likely will go to prison, a young confused, drugged young man is dead, and NO ONE questions the medications?????



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:27 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
But she still did not put him in the situation to cause his own death. That's why I chose that analogy.

He put himself in that situation.


Actually, she did. She texted him repeatedly, when he was out with family, goading him into "doing it". she pushed and pushed and pushed. When he chickened out, and exited the vehicle, she told him to get back in.



And he texted her...after much communication where he wanted her to encourage and support him.


Fro what we can see of the texts, in that video, 'he wasn't seeking encouragement to kill himself, and wanted to be talked out of it. She, on the other hand, was overboard in not just encouraging, but actively pushing him into the decision. When someone wants to be talked out of suicide, they talk to someone about it. When they want to just do it, they don't tell anyone.



I actually hate having to defend my position on this, because I don't think she is worthy of that.

But I don't think she is guilty of causing his death...he is.


Of course, he bore some responsibility for his actions. No one her is saying otherwise. However, she also bears responsibility, because she pushed him to kill himself. He was unsure, and she spent long hours pushing him into doing it. In the end, she talked him back in, when he was trying to stop.

She knew what she was doing. She admitted this. She claimed she loved him, but wanted him to die. Her actions were not simply criminal; they were utterly evil. I agree with those who have labeled her a psychopath. I hope she spends a very long time in prison.

I am curious; do you support assisted suicide, and if so, does that affect your opinion on this case?


That's your take on it! Have you ever been suicidal? I have and I am telling you he was NOT seeking her approval! He was so desperate at the thought of losing her that in his sick twisted reality that he thought threatening to kill himself would make her come back to him and life would be as he wanted it!

He played his cards and he is dead! Has anyone thought about the mental BS this girl might have went thru trying to just break up with him?


That's what I think. He wanted something from her that was NOT approval to kill himself, and instead of giving that, she goaded him into suicide. He clearly had some serious emotional issues, and possibly mental issues. Not sure there, as I haven't read a lot about this case. However, she did, in fact, push him to kill himself.

As for what this might have done to her emotionally, she had the same choice he did, to not respond. She texted him repeatedly, however, when he wasn't communicating with her, telling him she loved him, etc, and that isn't the action of a girl trying to break it off with a guy. She told him she loved hi and would never leave him, then encouraged hi to kill himself. Having known some seriously manipulative individuals, I see her as that sort. Had he been the one instigating more of the conversations, and pushing her to agree that he should kill himself, I might me more sympathetic to her. As it is, I believe she wanted him dead. Why, I won't speculate, but that's the impression I get from her texts.

For yourself, hope you are past that. No, I haven't been tot he point that I'd consider killing myself, but I have been down enough I might wish I could. Not a good place to be.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

In case you missed it?

The judge sighted two cases as precedent.

- One a man who caused the death of another man in jail - their cells were next to each other and he talked him into suicide by hanging.

- The other, a fire where a man did nothing to help save the people burning.

Both cases ended in these men being convicted of involuntary manslaughter.

The first one because:

Commonwealth v. Godin, 374 Mass. 120, 126, 371 N.E.2d 438  1977).   Involuntary manslaughter is “an unlawful homicide, unintentionally caused by an act which constitutes such a disregard of probable harmful consequences to another as to constitute wanton or reckless conduct.”  

The second:

...the defendant owed a duty of care and that “wanton or reckless conduct may consist of intentional failure to take such care in disregard of the probable consequences and their right to care.”  Id. at 397, 55 N.E.2d 902.

So, yes, there 'is such a thing' - two different explanations of the law and she violated not one but both.

The judge stated (concerning the man who caused another to hang himself),

‘It does not matter to the court if this man had tried to commit suicide in the past nor do we speculate or care if he might have done so in the future.’ (Obviously after the fact of his death, during deliberations).

Using these two cases as established law she was convicted, guilty of involuntary manslaughter - whether you like it or not.

And really, you should know by now just because you repeat something often does not make it true, only your opinion.

peace



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
Tragic but....

He didn''t have to read the text, he didn't have to listen to her, He wasen't forced to stay in the truck. He could have stopped the process at any time.


He didn't want to live so he killed himself.


I see that completely differently. I think he did want to live, and wanted her to encourage that, but she instead chose to goad hi into suicide. Even if he was the one to first suggest it (no idea there), she still pushed.

She had the choice to not text him, and yet she did so repeatedly, telling him he needed to kill himself. She chose to tell him to get back into the truck, when he got out.]

Since we don't see a text for that in the video, was that by actual phone call?? Seems it would have to have been. That's very cold on her part.




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