Guilty Verdict in Teen 'Suicide-by-Text' Case

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I'm not sure what minimum sentencing requirements are in the state of MA, or how it applies to this young lady (I thought I read she was being charged as a minor?), but I read the sentencing isn't until August 3rd. Is it a given she will go to prison?

As others have said, the individual who took his life is 100% responsible for his actions, but he was mentally ill and she kept encouraging him to go through with it multiple times. Maybe it's a wake up call she needs...

She isn't a psychiatrist...so there should be no expectation for her to know he was mentally ill or determine that everyone who wants to kill themselves is mentally ill. I don't actually believe that's true, myself. She owed no duty to him as far as *diagnosis* of mental illness goes. She is/was only 20.

She's awful, no doubt. I am not trying to defend her as a wonderful caring friend. But I think he was seeking out her encouragement. She was doing exactly what he wanted.

I just don't think what she did rises to the level of being criminal.

Also, I do think she will probably go to prison. And, at the very least, she is a convicted felon, now.

If I lived in Massachusetts...I would never feel comfortable supporting any friend or family member who wanted to end their life if they were in horrible pain from a terminal illness, because of this conviction.

Yet, I might want to and totally respect their decision.

It's just a lot to consider.

originally posted by: kibric
www.azleg.gov...

Mere words or gestures, although extremely offensive and insulting, have traditionally been viewed as insufficient provocation to reduce murder to manslaughter. There is, however, a modern trend in some courts to hold that words alone will suffice under certain circumstances, such as instances in which a present intent and ability to cause harm is demonstrated.

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...

Les is not a Lawyer
all cases are different

Manslaughter by Coercion is a thing

But, again, him committing suicide was not an issue she raised. He did. and he sought her out to support him in that decision as far as I understand.

He is so much more responsible for his death than she is, that I don't think reasonable doubt was overcome in this case.

I feel like her waiver of a right to a jury trial is so odd. One judge decided this verdict. I honestly don't believe, for one moment, that 12 people would have all agreed.

a reply to: kibric

Manslaughter by Coercion is a thing

Of course it is - and not by my opinion (though I agree) but by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

They stated another case (president) where a man talked another man into killing himself in jail.

They were not in the same cell.

The man doing the ‘talking’ was convicted of involuntary manslaughter.

I'm having a tough time finding the case info but I'll post it when I do.

peace

a reply to: silo13

Sounds like she got off easy!! No way that's involuntary. She knew what she was doing. At least she was found guilty in some way.

a reply to: kibric

I'm not a lawyer, but I know when someone is killed by another or himself.

You're not a lawyer. You're quote is about reducing murder to manslaughter, about intent to kill someone, not that words are manslaughter.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

But, again, him committing suicide was not an issue she raised. He did. and he sought her ought to support him in that decision as far as I understand.

So what’s your evaluation of the description of the law in this case?

Commonwealth v. Godin, 374 Mass. 120, 126, 371 N.E.2d 438  1977).   Involuntary manslaughter is “an unlawful homicide, unintentionally caused by an act which constitutes such a disregard of probable harmful consequences to another as to constitute wanton or reckless conduct.”  

link

...the defendant owed a duty of care and that “wanton or reckless conduct may consist of intentional failure to take such care in disregard of the probable consequences and their right to care.”  Id. at 397, 55 N.E.2d 902.

He exited the truck seeking life/air. He was AFRAID.

Regardless, she provoked him to get back into the truck - where she could hear his coughing, choking and the generator.

She failed to call the police, for emergency medical help, his parents.

Curious what you think.

peace

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Manslaughter by Coercion is a thing

each case is different

Gotta love CNN's fake headline:


That's a gross misrepresentation of why she was convicted. She was convicted because she knew he was in the process of killing himself and not only did nothing to send help to the scene, she encouraged him to finish the job when he got scared and faltered. That easily fits this definition:

Involuntary manslaughter

1) An unlawful killing that was unintentionally caused as the result of the defendants' wanton or reckless conduct;

FindLaw.com on Invol Manslaughter in Massachusetts

Pretty cut and dry, would a reasonable person call it reckless to tell someone to get back in the truck and finish killing yourself? Apparently the judge thought so. It's definitely not a 1st amendment case, and she wasn't found guilty of "telling [her] boyfriend he'd be better off dead". CNN embarrassing themselves with fake news, AGAIN. This girl deserves to do time.

a reply to: kibric

Manslaughter by Coercion is a thing

each case is different

False. Manslaughter by coercion is not a thing.

a reply to: face23785

Did she kill him?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

False. Manslaughter by coercion is not a thing.

hmmmmmmm............. it is a thing

11.03A4

Manslaughter by Coercion

The crime of manslaughter by coercion requires proof that:

1. Under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to human life, the defendant recklessly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death and thereby caused the death of another person; and

2. The defendant was coerced to engage in the conduct by the use or threatened immediate use of unlawful deadly physical force upon the defendant or another person which a reasonable person in the defendant’s situation would have been unable to resist.

apaac.az.gov/research/category/211-statutory?download=2124%3A11.03a4...60

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: MotherMayEye

But, again, him committing suicide was not an issue she raised. He did. and he sought her ought to support him in that decision as far as I understand.

So what’s your evaluation of the description of the law in this case?

Commonwealth v. Godin, 374 Mass. 120, 126, 371 N.E.2d 438  1977).   Involuntary manslaughter is “an unlawful homicide, unintentionally caused by an act which constitutes such a disregard of probable harmful consequences to another as to constitute wanton or reckless conduct.”  

link

...the defendant owed a duty of care and that “wanton or reckless conduct may consist of intentional failure to take such care in disregard of the probable consequences and their right to care.”  Id. at 397, 55 N.E.2d 902.

He exited the truck seeking life/air. He was AFRAID.

Regardless, she provoked him to get back into the truck - where she could hear his coughing, choking and the generator.

She failed to call the police, for emergency medical help, his parents.

Curious what you think.

peace

Was that the law cited in the arguments of this case? If it is, I don't think 'homocide' fits. This was self-inflicted.

(ETA: "Homicide refers to one human killing another." Link)

I think he was communicating with her specifically for her support and encouragement, not for her to tell him to not do it.

I wouldn't have encouraged him, no. When I was in high school, my BFF told me on a few occasions that he wanted to ram his car into a particular tree in a state park that was in our town. I always told him to never do such a thing, but I never sought out his parents or any other adult to intervene.

But, one day he did just that and wound up in a hospital with a lacerated forehead. So I told his mom that I didn't think it was an accident and that he did it on purpose....based on what he had told me.

Our friendship drifted, after that. Life moved on and we were never close after that.

Twenty years later, he walked into that same park with a gun and shot himself in the head.

I hope I am not to blame for any of it because of something I did or did not do.

I can't tell you exactly what I think of this particular case because I did not hear all the evidence nor the arguments.

a reply to: kibric

I stand corrected. In Arizona, there is a such thing as Manslaughter by coercion.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You're not addressing the issue. The issue is whether she violated the law. She clearly did. The law for manslaughter doesn't require you to have physically committed the act that killed the person.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: kibric

I stand corrected. In Arizona, there is a such thing as Manslaughter by coercion.

This was in Massachusetts.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I do agree with your overall point

a reply to: MotherMayEye

This was in Massachusetts.

Yes it is. Is coerced suicide a crime in Mass?

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I was just pointing out that Manslaughter by coercion it exists
the law in Massachusetts pertaining to this
I don't know
as les said I am not a lawyer

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Involuntary manslaughter

1) An unlawful killing that was unintentionally caused as the result of the defendants' wanton or reckless conduct;

FindLaw.com on Invol Manslaughter in Massachusetts

Telling someone to get back in the truck and finish killing himself is reckless. She's guilty. It's black and white.