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Guilty Verdict in Teen 'Suicide-by-Text' Case

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posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 05:31 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

The guilty verdict says you are wrong. All of which has nothing to do with your point that it's a text so it can't be illegal, where I pointed out exactly how a text can be illegal and you agreed, then went back to saying a text can't be illegal. I feel bad for you, I see no point on continuing.


I haven't agreed with a single piece of nonsense you've spouted. I've only argued that she killed no one.




posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 05:33 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I think you're confusing euthanasia with encouraging someone to commit suicide. According to the defence, there is no crime in encouraging suicide.


I am not confusing anything, you specifically said "'assisting suicide" is not illegal in Mass...'. It is.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I think you're confusing euthanasia with encouraging someone to commit suicide. According to the defence, there is no crime in encouraging suicide.


I am not confusing anything, you specifically said "'assisting suicide" is not illegal in Mass...'. It is.


I was using the language of the other poster, hence the scare quotes. What she did wasn't illegal in mass, as evidenced by the defences arguments and the lack of statute.

I will quote the NYT again:



Ms. Carter’s lawyers, and other civil liberties advocates, have noted in legal filings that Massachusetts, unlike many other states, has no law against encouraging someone to commit suicide and have said prosecutors are stretching the definition of involuntary manslaughter.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 05:50 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

And texting is not illegal, but assisting and pushing someone to commit suicide is. Assisted suicide is a crime. See how easy this is? You really should have just stopped when you were unable to get off the starting line.


If this is analogous to a race, you started in the wrong direction, went in circles, ending up at a finish line of your own imagination.

"Assisting suicide" is not illegal in Mass, never mind that pesky First Ammendment. She was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. Manslaughter is homicide. The kid committed suicide. Try to square that circle.

edit on 18-6-2017 by RomeByFire because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 05:55 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I was using the language of the other poster, hence the scare quotes.


And? Assisted suicide is still illegal in Massachusetts, contrary to what you posted.

You said this:


"assisting suicide" is not illegal in Mass...


That statement is false.




What she did wasn't illegal in mass, as evidenced by the defences arguments and the lack of statute.


Apparently what she did is now illegal in Massachusetts pending appeal.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I was using the language of the other poster, hence the scare quotes.


And? Assisted suicide is still illegal in Massachusetts, contrary to what you posted.

You said this:


"assisting suicide" is not illegal in Mass...


That statement is false.




What she did wasn't illegal in mass, as evidenced by the defences arguments and the lack of statute.


Apparently what she did is now illegal in Massachusetts pending appeal.


And? Do you know why people use scare quotes?

No, she was charged with manslaughter, which is homicide. The man committed suicide.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 05:59 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
No, she was charged with manslaughter, which is homicide. The man committed suicide.


I don't care about that, I am correcting your factually inaccurate statement that assisted suicide was not illegal in Massachusetts.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 06:03 PM
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I can just tell by that one youtube frame she is innocent. She wrote "you could write on a piece of paper carbon monoxide" meaning she wanted to fool him to fool himself, his mind that is to convince him he actually mentally died. She wanted to change him completely so he could become real again and that is her solution.

Now guys it's like this. The guy should have sat down and waited for some guy to show up and see what he was doing. Then that guy should have asked for the guy's father and go to him. Then they should have talked and something would have happened that made sense. But now this poor woman has an uncomfortable phase and we are all responsible here if only because of technology used which we should guard and control.

So whatever happened, the father of the guy should get the blame, plus the father of the young lady. Edit to add and the 2 fathers need to share the blame, I'd say 50-50 or 49-49 and the other 2 goes to the general public.
edit on 18-6-2017 by CoolBuzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 06:14 PM
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Reading a bit more about the case she is actually the heroine. As in female Hero, rescuer, nurse, someone who helped. Because first it's always the guy who makes the first move towards the woman. Now the move of the guy Roy leading to suicide went on for months and she spend a lot of time and money saying it's not a good idea. Somehow it all ran out and that is what she came up with as an answer, but it's the guy that kept asking the question and who should have formulated an answer, or gotten help from other males. Help meaning some communication so he could get what he was thinking about was wrong. Also she was on drugs so she went a long way to help others.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 06:15 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
No, she was charged with manslaughter, which is homicide. The man committed suicide.


I don't care about that, I am correcting your factually inaccurate statement that assisted suicide was not illegal in Massachusetts.


Your correction is factually inaccurate as it misrepresents what I was talking about. You corrected nothing but your own misapprehension of how scare quotes function.
edit on 18-6-2017 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Your correction is factually inaccurate as it misrepresents what I was talking about. You corrected nothing but your own misapprehension of how scare quotes function.


You said this:


"assisting suicide" is not illegal in Mass...


The quotes are irrelevant, your statement is factually incorrect which can be demonstrated by asking you the following question:

Dear, LesMisanthrope, is assisted suicide legal or illegal in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts? A simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 06:46 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Your correction is factually inaccurate as it misrepresents what I was talking about. You corrected nothing but your own misapprehension of how scare quotes function.


You said this:


"assisting suicide" is not illegal in Mass...


The quotes are irrelevant, your statement is factually incorrect which can be demonstrated by asking you the following question:

Dear, LesMisanthrope, is assisted suicide legal or illegal in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts? A simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice.


I don't know why you'd ask that question. It's irrelevant. I was speaking about something else entirely.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 06:52 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I don't know why you'd ask that question. It's irrelevant. I was speaking about something else entirely.


It is completely relevant to your statement that:

'"assisting suicide" is not illegal in Mass...'

What you feel you may or may not have been talking about is not what required correction, your factually inaccurate statement is what did. Assisted suicide is indeed illegal in the state you said it was not illegal in. I don't care whether this case revolved around assisted suicide or not, your statement is still incorrect which is evidenced by you not answering my very simple question.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I don't know why you'd ask that question. It's irrelevant. I was speaking about something else entirely.


It is completely relevant to your statement that:

'"assisting suicide" is not illegal in Mass...'

What you feel you may or may not have been talking about is not what required correction, your factually inaccurate statement is what did. Assisted suicide is indeed illegal in the state you said it was not illegal in. I don't care whether this case revolved around assisted suicide or not, your statement is still incorrect which is evidenced by you not answering my very simple question.


Again you do not know the function of scare quotes which is evidenced by the fact you misconstrued my statement to mean I was talking about assisted suicide, which I did not. Not to mention the fact that all you did was linked to Wikipedia. Again, you corrected nothing.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 07:06 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Again you do not know the function of scare quotes which is evidenced by the fact you misconstrued my statement to mean I was talking about assisted suicide, which I did not.


Whether you we quoting someone else or not is irrelevant, the remark you added about it 'not being illegal in Massachusetts' is incorrect. And stop backpedalling, it's not like you were talking about your preferred method of milking a cat, you were talking about assisting in a suicide.


Not to mention the fact that all you did was linked to Wikipedia. Again, you corrected nothing.


Wow, so lazy, did you not even look at the map of the United States which showed, in red, the states where assisted suicide are illegal? I suppose not, since you would have noticed that Massachusetts does not permit this action. Let me help you out a little more:


Code Section
Ch. 201D §12
Euthanasia Condoned in Statutes?
Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to constitute, condone, authorize, or approve suicide or mercy killing or to permit any affirmative or deliberate act to end one's own life other than to permit the natural process of dying. Nope, not legal, even if people claim it is on the interwebs.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 07:11 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I will quote a law professor, and you can refute her with your googling. But I still think you are confusing euthanasia and encouraging suicide.




Unlike 40 other states, Massachusetts has no law against assisted suicide, and the prosecution appeared to go beyond the scope of the existing law, said Sharon Beckman, a law professor at Boston College.

“Before this case, the law says that a person is responsible for their own suicide,” Beckman said. “That is the default common law and applies no matter what the other person said or whether they handed them the weapon.”


LA times

Is Professor Beckman, law professor at Boston College, not to mention Carters lawyers, wrong in saying this?



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 07:18 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Is Janet E. Johnson, a prominent defense lawyer based in Florida, wrong in her assessment?



Johnson said that in researching the Carter case, she could find no trials in Massachusetts and hardly any nationwide that involved a theory of manslaughter based on a defendant’s words.

One example, she said, was a Minnesota case where a defendant posing as a depressed woman online urged people to kill themselves in a mental health forum. He was charged and convicted in two deaths under the state’s assisted suicide ban. The conviction was struck down on appeal, and the defendant was retried and convicted under a new, narrower statute, Johnson said.

Massachusetts has no law banning assisted suicide, and Johnson said it appears prosecutors are trying Carter for that offense, based on her texts.


Boston Globe



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 07:21 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Is the legal director of ACLU Mass. wrong in his assessment?




Mr. Roy’s death is a terrible tragedy, but it is not a reason to stretch the boundaries of our criminal laws or abandon the protections of our constitution.

There is no law in Massachusetts making it a crime to encourage someone, or even to persuade someone, to commit suicide. Yet Ms. Carter has now been convicted of manslaughter, based on the prosecution’s theory that, as a 17-year-old girl, she literally killed Mr. Roy with her words. This conviction exceeds the limits of our criminal laws and violates free speech protections guaranteed by the Massachusetts and U.S. Constitutions.

The implications of this conviction go far beyond the tragic circumstances of Mr. Roy’s death. If allowed to stand, Ms. Carter’s conviction could chill important and worthwhile end-of-life discussions between loved ones across the Commonwealth.


ACLUm



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 07:22 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Is Janet E. Johnson, a prominent defense lawyer based in Florida, wrong in her assessment?


You're funny. I'm not talking about the case, I'm talking about your factually incorrect statement that Massachusetts does not have a statute against assisted suicide. It does.

Assisting someone with suicide is illegal in Massachusetts despite what you claim. I don't care whether people are trying to compare what this girl did to assisted suicide, I am pointing out that you claiming assisted suicide is legal in that state is incorrect. You can quote all the lawyers you want.




edit on 18-6-2017 by AugustusMasonicus because: I ♥ cheese pizza.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 07:25 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Is Janet E. Johnson, a prominent defense lawyer based in Florida, wrong in her assessment?


You're funny. I'm not talking about the case, I'm talking about your factually incorrect statement that Massachusetts does not have a statute against assisted suicide. It does.


Of course you're not. I was talking about the case. That's why your quibbles are irrelevant, are in direct contradiction to the statements of lawyers and the ACLU, and are factually inaccurate.



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