Grenfell Tower London Fire ... a conspiracy in the making?

originally posted by: K-PAX-PROT
a reply to: InceyWincey

He is a tax payer, every thing he buys, eats and drinks is taxable.

In fact everyone one who spends their benefits is directly paying taxes on the goods they buy.

And what about the governments with their hands in the public purse, do we owe them that privilege, do they think they are somehow owed a privileged free life style??

Lol, paying taxes on goods you buy with free money that the state has given you isn't paying tax. Zero wealth creation, just popping out more kids than you can afford to raise and expecting people who actually pay taxes to fund them.

originally posted by: InceyWincey

originally posted by: K-PAX-PROT
a reply to: InceyWincey

He is a tax payer, every thing he buys, eats and drinks is taxable.

In fact everyone one who spends their benefits is directly paying taxes on the goods they buy.

And what about the governments with their hands in the public purse, do we owe them that privilege, do they think they are somehow owed a privileged free life style??

Lol, paying taxes on goods you buy with free money that the state has given you isn't paying tax. Zero wealth creation, just popping out more kids than you can afford to raise and expecting people who actually pay taxes to fund them.

You do know that it is just bookkeeping @ the end of the day , right ?

originally posted by: 23432
You do know that it is just bookkeeping @ the end of the day , right ?

Of course, and some people do work to earn money in private transactions, then pay a portion of that to the state, which then pays it to people who pop out babies they can't afford to raise without the benefits.
You disagree with any of that?
Of course a discussion about fiat currency would by a seperate issue.

originally posted by: InceyWincey

originally posted by: 23432
You do know that it is just bookkeeping @ the end of the day , right ?

Of course, and some people do work to earn money in private transactions, then pay a portion of that to the state, which then pays it to people who pop out babies they can't afford to raise without the benefits.
You disagree with any of that?
Of course a discussion about fiat currency would by a seperate issue.

Currently someone who earns 50K per annum ends up paying just over 5K towards the Unemployment Bill.

I don't disagree with the Principal ; I disagree with the Model of Economics , perhaps I should have expanded a bit more on that in my previous post.

Britain has to be bolder than " Austerity " when it comes to Strategy of Macro Economics .

My suggestion for the Unemployment Bill would be to ask the recipients to provide voluntary " Online Work " , daily .

a reply to: 23432
I'm with you about the model of economics.
I only have my own personal model of economics, but I live in a world where a claimed authority tells me I have to give it some of the money I've earned from a private transaction with another human.
Some folk choose to do nothing for their money, aside from telling lies to the DWP etc.
There is a difference, and on-topic if my taxes are paying for social housing then I demand every penny pays to keep the residents safe first and foremost.

originally posted by: InceyWincey
a reply to: 23432
I'm with you about the model of economics.
I only have my own personal model of economics, but I live in a world where a claimed authority tells me I have to give it some of the money I've earned from a private transaction with another human.
Some folk choose to do nothing for their money, aside from telling lies to the DWP etc.
There is a difference, and on-topic if my taxes are paying for social housing then I demand every penny pays to keep the residents safe first and foremost.

I went to see a mate in Cornwall recently and ended up filling this housing benefit form for a 22 year old girl who had 3 kids from 3 guys .
She was dating my mate and wanted to claim housing benefit , basicly lying to DWP .

There is no workable legislation unless we totally turn into a totalitarian society even then we couldn't put a stop to this type of behaviour .

I think it is expected and ought to be catered for within the Economic Model .

Funny thing is that the Digital Economy can totally and utterly end this madness .

originally posted by: 23432
I think it is expected and ought to be catered for within the Economic Model .

It is.
This conversation evolved from replies regarding poor people having a right to live in expensive areas and facilitated through cheap taxpayer subsidised social housing.
I live in an expensive area and pay lots of tax. I'm happy to fund social housing but if it means popping out a kid gets you a house in my street then something is wrong with the system. I might as well knock a bird up and pretend I don't live with her fake single parent arse for the free house, then work cash in hand somewhere or whatever. Minted.
Loads do it and it #s me off.

...you'll never see me grass anyone up to our oppressors but it #s me off.


ETA
I'm prob only jealous because I'm male and can't just pop the kid out to claim the tax subsidised rented home lol

Incey Whincey

Some benefits are not free money, .I take you are aware of NI contributions paid by those in work, they go towards the NHS and welfare incase one becomes ill or unemployed.

Now when someone finds oneself out of a job one can apply for unemployment benefit until ones seeks another job. Also you will be aware of the amounts of housing benefits that are paid to private landlords by those on housing benefits and those on WORKING tax credits,

Also the corporate welfare pay outs to such people as private land lords and private housing associations is massive. In fact benefit fraud is smaller in comparison to the hand outs from the state via housing benefits paid to the private housing associations and landlords.

Free money , there is no such thing. lol....

More like a cop out from those that use such tory economics to label all those struggling out of work as freeloaders and work shy scroungers because of a lack of jobs paying a decent liveable age.

No one can avoid paying tax , even those on benefits, the taxation goes back to its source every time.

Seems like some would have us revert back to the 1800"s when there was no welfare and no NHS in the UK.

Billions hidden away in off shore tax havens, multinationals like Amazon and Star Bucks who are engaging in tax avoidance lop holes in the UK amounts to billions that could have been used for the NHS and social housing and even job creation, that is were your free money lies mate.

a reply to: K-PAX-PROT

I worked in the game for years, I fully understand the system. I already stated I equally despise tax evasion as well so no need for the factoids fella.
Oh and jobs, funny how 3 million EU nationals do the crappy jobs Brits are too lazy to do themselves. Pop a kid out at 18, no need, lie to the social that you are a single parent while living with the father of your child on the sly, while he himself is claiming JSA as a single person from a different address.
Yes, again, tax evasion is equally to be condemned, I'm just condemning career benefit cheats as well.

originally posted by: InceyWincey

originally posted by: 23432
I think it is expected and ought to be catered for within the Economic Model .

It is.
This conversation evolved from replies regarding poor people having a right to live in expensive areas and facilitated through cheap taxpayer subsidised social housing.
I live in an expensive area and pay lots of tax. I'm happy to fund social housing but if it means popping out a kid gets you a house in my street then something is wrong with the system. I might as well knock a bird up and pretend I don't live with her fake single parent arse for the free house, then work cash in hand somewhere or whatever. Minted.
Loads do it and it #s me off.

...you'll never see me grass anyone up to our oppressors but it #s me off.

ETA
I'm prob only jealous because I'm male and can't just pop the kid out to claim the tax subsidised rented home lol

I think the epidemic proportions of the population are going thru really difficult times .

There was once a time that it was seen really stupid to sit on the doll and do nothing with your life .

Unfortunately nowadays to sit around and do nothing is a viable way to live one's life .

Universal Income is the way forward imho.

a reply to: InceyWincey

What the **** are you?

You sound like a pop out from the daily fail or the scum, there's no chance anyone on ATS will listen to you, surely not??
I think I've been away from here far too long and the far right morons have moved in lol
sad sad little man that doesn't understand anything that is going on in the UK, blames the poor, uneducated, vulnerable, neglected and products of a society that feeds off the poor to fatten the rich, why do you fall for this #e?
The elitists have certainly fooled you!!
Don't you get it?
Problem (Immigrants, Welfare)
Reaction (Fooking Foreigners, god damn spongers)
Solution (Hard Brexit, Austerity)

Now wake the F*** up and realise you've been had, going to war for corporations and lies is what's happened, the war machine needs to be kept alive, private finance is as evil and destructive as war and keeping people dumb and stupid is a great tactic that seems to be working on you and many others

originally posted by: 23432
Universal Income is the way forward imho.

Universal income is a problem to me if it takes the same pot of money and distributes the same for everybody. I for example would continue to work and enjoy the bonus cash from the government. Disabled people for example would rely on this as their only income. Right now, disabled people get more money than say a single healthy 25 year old on JSA. If a universal income meant the disabled person got the same as the lazy arsed 25 year old I would have to say I think the idea would be ethically questionable.

a reply to: zerozero00

I engage in private transactions carrying out work for other humans who pay me for my services. The government forces me to give it a part of my earned income, money I received for my time and effort. Some people pop out a kid they can't afford to raise and get paid by the government to live. Massive difference.
I've already said I condemn tax evasion so your emotional argument is, well, just emotional.

originally posted by: InceyWincey
The government forces me to give it a part of my earned income, money I received for my time and effort.

Yes. This is not some great sacrifice to be borne grudgingly, it is the contribution you make to not living in a country that is in the same chaos as Somalia.

And if you're going to start getting 'Well, I paid for this to happen and I object' then I'm going to come round your house with a tape-measure and a tin of paint, and set out exactly how far you can walk from your own front door before you've used up your personal allocation of pavement "that you've paid for" and can't proceed without trespassing on someone else's contribution.

a reply to: audubon

Some live off the money they earn from their work, some pop out kids and defraud the state to live, some evade taxes.
I am a person who lives from the money I earn, I condemn both other types equally. Do you not condemn career benefit cheats and career tax evaders equally? Theft is theft to me.

Oh and to add, the single parent mother who is secretly living with the father of their child on the sly while he is claiming JSA at a different address story has an added bonus with the father being able to rent his home out to someone working while the LHA pays the rent. It's a fantastic earner done properly, and many many people are doing it. I condemn their fraud same as any tax evasion.

a reply to: InceyWincey
Just pathetic, pathetic!
What the hell drug are you on?
£3
bn is spent on welfare/benefits

about 10 pence of your weekly income

you really think £70 a week in your pocket is really living the life???
you really think people have children for welfare??
you don't see a failed system of extreme poor and extreme rich?

originally posted by: InceyWincey
Do you not condemn career benefit cheats and career tax evaders equally? Theft is theft to me.

No, I don't. No system is completely foolproof, and benefit fraud is insignificant compared to tax evasion (it's around 30 times smaller, if you check, which you obviously don't want to do)

There will always be people who fiddle their taxes, just as there will always be benefit fraud. But it is clear which one is more damaging to society, isn't it?

a reply to: zerozero00

Why so emotional?
I'm saying I think all theft is equally theft, fair enough if you don't.
I say lifting a fiver off me is as bad as stealing my car, it's thieving. I'm not talking about people who are struggling to eat, I'm talking about career cheats. Calm down I say.

a reply to: audubon
Steal 50 pence from me and I'll still call you a dirty thief. The amounts don't matter, thieving is thieving unless your starving or whatever. I'm talking about career benefit liars and career tax avoiders. They are equally to be condemned.
But I'm sure you'll explain why their crimes should be ignored lol

originally posted by: InceyWincey
Steal 50 pence from me and I'll still call you a dirty thief. The amounts don't matter,

Cool. I'll nick your car instead, then, since I know the penalty is so laughable. I mean, a theft is a theft, right?