Otto Warmbier - Severe Brain Damage

He may have simply chosen to take an overdose of sleeping pills (lowering blood pressure), decided to suffocate himself by sleeping face down on a pillow, or some other way.

a reply to: eNumbra

I'm not a democrat and belong to no party, the tolerance and understanding that I preach means that you understand not to go to a country like North Korea and break the law, any law, because they have a known history of human rights violations.

This comes as no surprise to anyone with even a modicum of gray matter between their ears; in a country that practices "three generations of punishment" people are upset and confounded that this kid effectively died in one of their prisons, and now the war hawks are using it like a #ing flashpoint.

Color me unsurprised.

So, you're an anti-Republican, then? Little difference in my book. If you base your thought processes on political party affiliation, you're not an Independent.

Your explanation is actually logical. If you don't like the laws, stay out of the country. That is, until you, in the very next post, state this:

No there isn't, so why do America(and several other civilized countries) still treat marijuana use like a crime? Your moral high ground is shaky at best.

If you don't like the laws stay out of the country, right? Right?

Hypocrisy...

TheRedneck

a reply to: kosmicjack

Do wounds heal as fast in a coma? And even if they do, marg's explanation of internal scar tissue kinda makes sense.

A doctor can look at an EKG on me and identify all three heart attacks... over two decades. Seems to me there would be some corroborating evidence of a hanging. Without the neck break, it's slow strangulation, extremely traumatic to the neck area.

TheRedneck

The bottom line is that Kim Un needs to die, and very soon. Death to Kim Un and his barbaric deeds of death to his own people, and anyone else that interferes with his plans of destruction and death. Our military should Kill him quickly.

Think people, what could you do to a person, that would deprive them of oxygen, and leave no visible wounds, yet cause brain damage?

Oh, and you have the $$$ and resources of an entire country at your beckon call?

They likely put him into a sealed room, slowly pumped in CO2 to the point he was almost passed out. Then, add oxygen to revive him......over......over........over.........until poof... He suffers irreversible brain damage that last time they went too far.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
UVA student, Otto Warmbier, whom had been imprisoned in NK and recently released has been diagnosed by US doctors as having severe brain damage and is in a "persistent vegetative state".

Doctors: Ex-North Korea Detainee Otto Warmbier - Severe Brain Damage

Doctors state:

This pattern of brain injury is usually seen as result of cardiopulmonary arrest where blood supply to (the) brain is inadequate for a period of time, resulting in the death of brain tissue

I doubt this is as a result of "botulism" as stated by the North Koreans. Sounds to me more like he may have hung himself and the North Koreans found him and cut him down before he was completely dead. Then they probably didn't know what to do next except for hope he recovered so they wouldn't have his death on their watch.

Maybe. But it's North Korea and he's an American. Until ruled otherwise, my first suspicion is that they tortured him and then gave him back to us as a message.

originally posted by: face23785
Yeah and we should have done something about NK during his term, before they finished developing the bomb. Clinton tried to do a deal, similar to what Obama tried to do with Iran, to "bring them into the international community", and when that failed Bush didn't do much better. We probably should've taken military action against them during Bush's term, but the public was already sick of war from Afghanistan and Iraq and the Bush admin was worried about the effect it would have on the 2006 midterms and 2008 general election. Then Obama just kicked the can down the road for the next President to deal with. Our Presidents have failed to take any effective actions on this threat for several decades now. If they had, maybe none of this would've happened to this kid.

In 2006 China and NK were on good terms. There was no feasible path to military action against NK unless you were also willing to declare war on China. 10 years later and things are a little different. China still supports NK, but not as much as they used to.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Isn't that what they did to Deadpool?

Correction... isn't that what they did to Wade that turned him into Deadpool?

a reply to: Aazadan

That's the same reasoning why everyone said we couldn't directly attack Syria. We called Russia's bluff. They're not going to start WW3 over a little satellite ally like Syria. I doubt China would start WW3 over NK, especially if all we did was a surgical strike on their nuclear facilities.

a reply to: Aazadan

China is not that deeply in bed with North Korea. They protect the little madman for only two reasons: trade (with the rest of the planet thinking coal is worse than nuclear waste, they want to maintain that source) and culture. Chinese culture is diametrically opposed to Western culture in many ways, to the point that it is actually almost impractical to directly translate from Mandarin to English. After the Korean War, we westernized South Korean society, which left North Korea as a sort of 'cultural buffer' between South Korea and China. Every administration in memory has been unable to accept the fact that China will not be westernized... until now.

Trump lessened tensions by stressing Western non-interference after a conflict to the Chinese, and by offering them an alternate source of coal...us. Now there's a lot less love for Kim coming from the Chinese, because he's just not as important to them any more.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: eNumbra

I'm not a democrat and belong to no party, the tolerance and understanding that I preach means that you understand not to go to a country like North Korea and break the law, any law, because they have a known history of human rights violations.

This comes as no surprise to anyone with even a modicum of gray matter between their ears; in a country that practices "three generations of punishment" people are upset and confounded that this kid effectively died in one of their prisons, and now the war hawks are using it like a #ing flashpoint.

Color me unsurprised.

So, you're an anti-Republican, then? Little difference in my book. If you base your thought processes on political party affiliation, you're not an Independent.

Your explanation is actually logical. If you don't like the laws, stay out of the country. That is, until you, in the very next post, state this:

No there isn't, so why do America(and several other civilized countries) still treat marijuana use like a crime? Your moral high ground is shaky at best.

If you don't like the laws stay out of the country, right? Right?

Hypocrisy...

TheRedneck

I was born here, so I'll try to change those laws - the point being not about how I dislike certain laws, but how all governments are inherently somewhat tyrannical as they all seek to control the human population.

But believe whatever you want.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

I guess that's a possibility, though strangulation is not really one of NK's tactics that I am aware of. They usually opt for more violent forms of torture.

The medical reports from the article seem to suggest there were no outward signs of major physical trauma.

Holding his head under water would not cause trauma.

originally posted by: szino9
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Yes asphyxiation came to mind immediately, either by own hand or torture. Very sad

The NK torture experts must have thought they knew how much a person can take without permanant damage being done. Maybe their torture guidelines do not take into consideration that not every westerner is a trained, healthy soldier (who im sure they tested their methods on), and so they pushed his body too far beyond it's limits.

Or perhaps he had a rare condition of the heart or circulatory / respiratory systems that only allows for torture at a reduced rate/capacity, which their primitive doctors could not detect.

Or, maybe it is a very common condition, but their doctors suck, or the head dr in charge was too afraid to stop the torture...he might be seen as sympathetic toward the Westerner...like what happen to the Last Dr before him...

www.google.com...

WaPo article (via Google AMP) OTTOS NK ROOMATE SPEAKS OUT

a guy from UK who took part in the same tour, and ended up in the same hotel room as Otto because "they were the only single lads on the tour" so it seemed a natural fit, he was with Otto "practically" the whole time.

His main messages: Otto was a good lad, mature for his age even. He never witnessed or even heard anything about the supposed stolen banner/poster until 2 weeks after leaving NK and saw the news report. Although he admits he wasn't with him 24 hrs a day, this is surprising news to him. Also, he was the only tour member to see Otto being detained and led away from the security checkpoint at the NK airport in Pyongyang. Says he is "shocked" nobody from the US GOV or the tour guide company has tried to contact him for some info.

Unfortunately Otto Warmbier has died tonight.
Somebody needs to get to the bottom of what happened to him and if NK did something to him in jail then they should pay a price.

a reply to: eNumbra

I was born here, so I'll try to change those laws - the point being not about how I dislike certain laws, but how all governments are inherently somewhat tyrannical as they all seek to control the human population.

That is a fair statement. But it's not applicable to your original statement about how it was Otto's fault that this happened.

But believe whatever you want.

I will. I will believe that even governments are liable for their actions, and that all humans have the right to fair treatment, regardless of where they're from.

But that's just me...

TheRedneck

P.S.: RIP Otto Warmbier. May the torture you endured erase the memory of the torture you endured.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Don't ya think waterboarding would be simpler?..it's a more plausible scenario.

a reply to: face23785

Oh, no. They should be speaking, screaming even, from every bully pulpit they can find.

I would be, and no one would stop me. Ignore me, maybe, but silence me, never.

But that's a private citizen, I expect my govt. to be rather more circumspect in their responses to this.

a reply to: Cornczech

22 is not a kid. That is part of the problem with some segments of society, we want them to stay a child...which is fine up to about the time the kids graduate from high school. Then it's time to pull up the big boy/girl pants and begin to join the real world.

He was adult enough to want to go to North Korea, he should have been smart enough to realize at least something of what he was getting into. North Korea is the Twilight Zone's evil twin.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Cornczech

22 is not a kid. That is part of the problem with some segments of society, we want them to stay a child...which is fine up to about the time the kids graduate from high school. Then it's time to pull up the big boy/girl pants and begin to join the real world.

He was adult enough to want to go to North Korea, he should have been smart enough to realize at least something of what he was getting into. North Korea is the Twilight Zone's evil twin.

He was 20 or 21 when he went over right? And still a college student? Not well traveled? That's not a good recipe for knowing what he was doing. Just because you kick them out of the house at 18 traditionally doesn't mean they have the life experience to make rational adult decisions. You don't get that until your 30's, your brain isn't even fully developed until 26.