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Otto Warmbier - Severe Brain Damage

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posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Christosterone
a reply to: face23785

What they did to him was an act of war.

-Chris

No it wasn't. He committed a crime on North Korean soil and paid the North Korean price for it.

##snipped##


Try to follow along.

Personal responsibility is a learned behavior. To err is human. When you are not allowed sufficient leeway to learn from your mistakes, especially minor transgressions, you are being treated as less than human. Which is how the North Korean government even treats its own people. There is no place in this world for such regimes.
edit on Fri Jun 16 2017 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 11:46 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: eNumbra

This is that compassion and understanding and tolerance your party speaks of? No wonder the Democrats are losing races wholesale!

TheRedneck

I'm not a democrat and belong to no party, the tolerance and understanding that I preach means that you understand not to go to a country like North Korea and break the law, any law, because they have a known history of human rights violations.

This comes as no surprise to anyone with even a modicum of gray matter between their ears; in a country that practices "three generations of punishment" people are upset and confounded that this kid effectively died in one of their prisons, and now the war hawks are using it like a #ing flashpoint.

Color me unsurprised.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: sooth

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Christosterone
a reply to: face23785

What they did to him was an act of war.

-Chris

No it wasn't. He committed a crime on North Korean soil and paid the North Korean price for it.

This is that personal responsibility you republicans cry about so much.


Try to follow along.

Personal responsibility is a learned behavior. To err is human. When you are not allowed sufficient leeway to learn from your mistakes, especially minor transgressions, you are being treated as less than human. Which is how the North Korean government even treats its own people. There is no place in this world for such regimes.


No there isn't, so why do America(and several other civilized countries) still treat marijuana use like a crime? Your moral high ground is shaky at best.



edit on 6/16/2017 by eNumbra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: eNumbra

You're forgetting this was a college kid. Our colleges don't tend to teach these kids much about the real world over here. It would be nice if he knew better, but he only knows what he's told. The sheltered life most of our college students live doesn't lend them to good decision making. This is only partly their fault, in my opinion. This is probably a discussion for another thread.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: eNumbra

You're forgetting this was a college kid. Our colleges don't tend to teach these kids much about the real world over here. It would be nice if he knew better, but he only knows what he's told. The sheltered life most of our college students live doesn't lend them to good decision making. This is only partly their fault, in my opinion. This is probably a discussion for another thread.

I would disagree with you; if however, I expand on that, the amount of ire I would likely bring down upon me would bring this thread to its knees.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 12:10 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


The first indication of any issue was noted in an MRI from spring of 2016, sent with him when he was returned from NK. So, one year to heal all of that.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: eNumbra

I think I get the picture. And you're right, this probably isn't the place to discuss it.

Either way, nobody who is upset at the way this kid was treated thinks there should be no responsibility for committing crimes in other countries.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 12:17 PM
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Sadly the only person that could tell us what happened to himself now has permanent brain damage.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: eNumbra

I think I get the picture. And you're right, this probably isn't the place to discuss it.

Either way, nobody who is upset at the way this kid was treated thinks there should be no responsibility for committing crimes in other countries.

I understand that much, but to call for war, or to think that a crime in North Korea wouldn't end in what would normally be considered unimagiable tragedy is silly.

North Korea was on George W Bush's axis of evil, declared about 15 years ago.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 12:40 PM
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This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!


Let's not use this horrible situation to drift off topic with political trollery!
All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 12:45 PM
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I thought the same as you: waterboarding....and isn't there kinds of torture where you ALMOST strangle someone to unconsciousness.....why would NK hide the fact he tried to hang himself.....Hmmmmmmmm.....bottom line: I feel REALLY bad for this dumb kid...at age 22....he IS a kid.....a reply to: TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 01:05 PM
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This could have been caused by NK torturers using waterboarding or electric shocks, impatient guards, other prisoners, or a suicide attempt. My guess is one of the last two as torture would be pointless and may damage the bargaining chip. NK was hoping for a miracle they didn't get.

Obviously, the privileged young are unaware of the reality of the NK regime. While stupid kids walk away from pranks and petty theft in the US, they don't walk away in dictatorships and it would seem that the trip sponsor did not pound that reality into every head on the trip.

If anyone travels to NK, they are at risk. If any US school sponsors such a trip, their leadership should be among those held responsible for the safe return of all students.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: eNumbra

I think I get the picture. And you're right, this probably isn't the place to discuss it.

Either way, nobody who is upset at the way this kid was treated thinks there should be no responsibility for committing crimes in other countries.

I understand that much, but to call for war, or to think that a crime in North Korea wouldn't end in what would normally be considered unimagiable tragedy is silly.

North Korea was on George W Bush's axis of evil, declared about 15 years ago.


Yeah and we should have done something about NK during his term, before they finished developing the bomb. Clinton tried to do a deal, similar to what Obama tried to do with Iran, to "bring them into the international community", and when that failed Bush didn't do much better. We probably should've taken military action against them during Bush's term, but the public was already sick of war from Afghanistan and Iraq and the Bush admin was worried about the effect it would have on the 2006 midterms and 2008 general election. Then Obama just kicked the can down the road for the next President to deal with. Our Presidents have failed to take any effective actions on this threat for several decades now. If they had, maybe none of this would've happened to this kid.
edit on 16 6 17 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 02:33 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Usually is signs of hanging in the person I am sure that the doctors looked for that.

I wonder what type of torture put him in the condition he is right now.

Perhaps a stroke? due to severe stress.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:20 PM
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originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Usually is signs of hanging in the person I am sure that the doctors looked for that.

I wonder what type of torture put him in the condition he is right now.

Perhaps a stroke? due to severe stress.



Signs of hanging probably wouldn't be detectable this long after the event. If he hung himself in his cell, it's unlikely he had the means to do it the right way, where you drop a significant distance to break your neck. So without the broken neck, all they'd have to look for is the rope marks, which would be healed by now. To my knowledge, the only other sign would be the condition that he's currently in, as a result of lack of oxygen, but of course the entire issue is that that can be caused a number of different ways.
edit on 16 6 17 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: face23785

Yes I agree, but I read sometime ago, that when you tried to hand yourself and survive, depending the severity it leaves scar tissue internally around the neck muscles, or something like that.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: marg6043

Ah ok, that makes sense. Learn something new every day
Well maybe they indeed can determine that then. Probably depends on exactly what he used and the exact position and everything.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: marg6043

I believe you are correct and perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought this could really only be determined during an autopsy.

Hard to do if he's not dead yet.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 05:10 PM
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Otto's father was very critical of the Obama administration and confirmed that Obama never even spoke with him or communicated with him. The advice he got from the then state dept was to lay low so as not to upset the North Koreans, something he got fed up with and as soon as he raised it this year and started to get more vocal he was able to engage the new administration and they helped secure a release.

I do find it unbelievable that the approach would have been to try and not upset the North Koreans.. I mean what kind of spineless approach is that. Unfortunately it seems like the US waited too long to really get their finger out on this one.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Yes I know, I am sue that his condition is due to more than trying to kill himself, is many ways of torture that can cause people to lose consciousness from lack of oxygen, that can cause a person to have a stroke too.

Is very sad that the young man will never be the same again.



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