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Why I decided to oppose universal healthcare

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posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:35 PM
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originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: schuyler


you guys who tout "universal healthcare (single payer!) for all" are asking for MORE government, which is really quite stupid.


Along with the fire departments, rubbish collection and national security it (healthcare) is the only type of government I want.


There's nothing wrong with government for those sorts of things. But generally fire departments don't control your lives, except with a few fire codes, which aren't really fire department controlled. With healthcare, government doesn't just provide it, they CONTROL it completely, including the meds you can have. Do you see the difference there? In your own situation, what if some government bureaucrat decided you couldn't have the psyche drugs you're on now--for whatever reason. Then you'd climb the walls, right? Well, my eyes are "crazy" in a manner of speaking, and I'm not getting what I need. I'm not at all convinced that if I were in the UK it would all be okay. There is no evidence of that.


It's only "more" in your mind because you want your government to do other things with their time instead.


Incorrect. I want them to do fewer things with less time. I want them to shrink like a bad tumor.


Everything else you said can be blamed on Big Pharma & insurance companies.


They certainly are a part of the problem, but they are not the CAUSE, they are the RESULT. Let's use a different example: The more the government guarantees and provides student loans, the higher tuition goes. There is a direct relationship.




posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: Ohanka

Everyone needs checkups. So it is politically palatable.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

What cost more? Paying for everybody's child to go to school until the age 18 or to pay for everybody's Medical Care?



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:38 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: mOjOm

This I can agree with. I would support universal heath checkups for everyone.


Now I'm totally confused.

Are you saying you just don't want to pay for fixing injured people. But you don't mind them being healthy and just getting checked out once in a while???

I mean I kinda get what you're saying about how we're going against natures normal way of doing things by not allowing nature to take it's course and letting the weaker of the species die off normally. To some degree I agree with that idea too. I think we go to ridiculous lengths sometimes to keep people alive when it's probably not needed. But there is a limit to how I would apply that idea. To say you wouldn't ever take your child to the doctor is just insane.

Getting sick or injured isn't always because someone is weak or genetically messed up. It happens to everyone. Some of the most important, smartest, most significant people in history have gotten sick at some point and where would we be without them???



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:38 PM
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a reply to: Ohanka

Society today is already weaker than the past health wise. Today there are many people who have various diseases or vulnerable to diseases. Just a few hundred years ago people were much healthier due to lack of medical treatments. Of course, it means longer lifespan, but is it really happier life?



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:39 PM
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originally posted by: Phoenix
Here we go again,

Three pages of back and forth on healthcare and not one single post directly addressing the rediculous high cost here in the states.

Here's truth,

Current system will overwhelm entire federal budget in 4 to 6 years.

Expected Trump changes get 6 years.

Universal care even sooner.

Without addressing cost you folks are rearranging deck chairs on a sinking ship.

How does government address cost?

It's quite simple, uphold longstanding laws!

Federal and State laws covering monopolistic practices, price collusion, billing for like services, price gouging, fraudulent practices, upfront pricing routine services and a plethora of federal and state consumer laws.

Before claiming medical is immune look up two pertinent SCOTUS cases ruling just the opposite.

Unless and until you stop screaming for "insurance" or "single payer" and start insistently screaming for law to be upheld then this charade we have now will take down economy and you will end up with absolutely nothing anyway.

Healthcare costs were this done should drop from over 19% GDP to 3% which was traditional percentage up until 30 years ago.

That's roughly an 80% reduction! !!!

It is possible to afford care at those cost levels for nearly everyone.

Taxpayers could well afford care for the rest without breaking the bank.

The chances of most folks actually doing anything even when informed how badly they are ripped off in current system is about nill.

They are just that stupid.




First page, from yours truly.



a reply to: allsee4eye

In the US we are #1 in cost and #37 in health outcomes. Guess what you get in the US if you need to see a specialist? A wait, sometimes a long wait.

The US system is broken, I fear it will only be addressed when the unwashed finally refuse to pay $1000 a month +12,500 a year deductibles, copays and pharma and the system crashes.

The US system is not sustainable, and is now a few companies seeking ever increasing profits.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:40 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: mOjOm

Ultimately you should be able to be born and live without paying money to anyone.

I understand why you and others think we need to provide everyone with everything, but I like the idea of being able to simply EXIST without paying some jack wagon money for the privilege.


We gotta pay for roads police and fire, maybe not for you and I, but the city dwellers. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't want to see folks dying in the streets.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:40 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: Ohanka

Everyone needs checkups. So it is politically palatable.


And if they find something wrong?

"Sir, you have a 15 foot tapeworm living inside you. Soon it will take control of your brain and turn you into a zombie. For the low low price of £35,999 we can remove it for you!"

"But I don't have that much..."

"Oh I'm sorry to hear that sir. Please go this way to the plague pits with the other proles. Next!"



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:42 PM
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a reply to: schuyler

Only my doctor has a say in my medication.

A government bureaucrat cannot get involved.


There are regulations involved with universal healthcare, at least in Britain.
No one but my doctor can have a say in my dosage, and even then I can ask for more, and more than likely they'll give it to me.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:42 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus
I have yet to see anyone suggest that "everything" be provided.

No one pay anyone for anything (even barter?)? How's that work?



I understand why you and others think we need to provide everyone with everything, but I like the idea of being able to simply EXIST without paying some jack wagon money for the privilege.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:42 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

It's a matter of willingness. Everyone needs their kids educated. Not everyone needs healthcare. Universal kids education is palatable to all. Universal healthcare is not.
edit on 15-6-2017 by allsee4eye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:43 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: mOjOm

Ultimately you should be able to be born and live without paying money to anyone.

I understand why you and others think we need to provide everyone with everything, but I like the idea of being able to simply EXIST without paying some jack wagon money for the privilege.


Then you live in the wrong country. The constitution allows government to levy taxes for certain services. That includes the military which we all pay for.

That is a "universal" benefit.

You drive on streets that we all pay for.

That is a "universal" benefit.

I could go on.

Too many people want the "universal" benefit but pitch a fit when they have to pony-up the bucks to live in a society in which you can be protected by a fine military or drive on roads that are paved.

Universal HC benefits us all. Let's pony-up.


edit on 15-6-2017 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

They are almost the same minus deductibles-copays and pharma.

10,000 would get you a high deductible policy. But better have another $12-15,000 laying around for the deductibles.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:45 PM
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lets just simplify everything,your views are shocking and shouldn,t even be debated,i,ve absoloute no believes but i,m obviously more humane than you are.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:45 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

No it is not palatable to all. You are forced just as you are forced to voluntarily pay income tax.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:46 PM
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The fear is that, with universal healthcare, the proportion of those vulnerable to disease in society will increase, driving up the tax needed for universal healthcare. Also, if people to the hospital paid for by others, they might abuse the system and go to the hospital more than necessary.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:46 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

No wait a second. Never once did I say we need to provide everyone with everything. Not even close. So don't start falsifying my argument here by putting words in my mouth I never said.

What I'm saying is we live in society where we totally have the means to give some basic heathcare services to everyone without it being a problem. It makes sense that in a modern society anyone who's injured or sick or whatever should get some kind of treatment for it. I'm not talking plastic surgery or anything, but simply aid for those who need it. It wouldn't even be that expensive or difficult to do.

The idea that we should just let people die in the street or suffer needlessly is crazy when you think about it. The cost of care is ridiculous as well. The reason people can't get care is because the cost for even something simple is outrageous. I mean non surgical treatment for a broken leg is thousands of dollars. Why is that??? because someone wraps it up in some stuff and it takes about an hour of their time??? Why do simple routine surgeries cost 10's of thousands of dollars??? It's nuts.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:49 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

In nature there is no medicine. The weak simply die and get weeded out by natural selection. Humans have become compassionate and save people from death by diseases. The end result is this remains to be seen. More tax, however, would not be the answer in the long run.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:49 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Yeah the UK is such a nightmarish land with constant disease epidemics after decades of tyrannical universal healthcare. Smallpox, consumption, dancing fever, you name it we got it!

Jesus #ing Christ would you please research this nonsense before embarking on your rambling proto-eugenics anti-universal healthcare crusade?



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:50 PM
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originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: schuyler

Only my doctor has a say in my medication.

A government bureaucrat cannot get involved.


There are regulations involved with universal healthcare, at least in Britain.
No one but my doctor can have a say in my dosage, and even then I can ask for more, and more than likely they'll give it to me.


VA is the same for me here in the states.



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