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Why I decided to oppose universal healthcare

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posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:26 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Healthcare is something we should all be using. It's not just for when you're injured or sick. We should all be getting check ups getting vaccines, etc. It's like preventative maintenance on a vehicle or something.

Also, everyone needs it now and then just from living a normal life. Unless you don't do anything ever in life that is. Everyone gets hurt doing something at some point. If not you're extremely lucky or live in a bubble.

The thing is that most people can't afford care so they just go without.

Besides that, you'll eventually use it. When you get older especially.




posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:27 PM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: allsee4eye

I love these threads. Brings out the person deep down in a lot of people. Negative mostly.


It also does bring out some positive, and those that we have disagreed with in the past, we may find common ground.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:27 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: Ohanka

The problem is universal healthcare would increase the proportion of people genetically vulnerable to disease. Defense, police, firefighters, garbage collectors, public schools, none of them cause any change in the makeup of society. Universal healthcare would.


Outright lie.

People are more vulnerable to disease in places without effective healthcare. The countries with effective healthcare tend to have universal healthcare.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Got a little secret.

If someone has no health care insurance, they still get treated. And guess who pays (hint it's you).

Liking something or not liking something should not make you blind to how the world works.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:29 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: Ohanka

The problem is universal healthcare would increase the proportion of people genetically vulnerable to disease. Defense, police, firefighters, garbage collectors, public schools, none of them cause any change in the makeup of society. Universal healthcare would.


Because lives would be saved, how mentally ill are you?



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:29 PM
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I guess it really all comes down to how stingey and scrooge-like a person is whether their fellow citizens are worth helping in an hour of need.


Glad I don't live in a society like that.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:29 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: allsee4eye

Universal healthcare absolves the citizen of providing healthcare for their friends and families and others, leaving it to a government who sees human beings as statistics. With a slight of hand, these same people will say they care for others, but what they mean to say is they would rather pay a bit of their pay check so that they don't have to bother.



Are you suggesting that private insurance (privatized socialism) doesn't see the "customers" as stats?

Right, you are kidding yourself.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:30 PM
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Lately, I've been thinking that some things should be free and or based on a scale of how dangerous your life is or how a person exposes themselves to danger. If it is something that you have no control over maybe these risks should be covered in a different category. For example the government exposed many parts of the country with nuclear fallout with above ground nuclear tests and other chemicals ddt. The corporations sell products that cause body damage for example pesticides. Many vaccinations proven in lawsuits to be dangerous for some groups of people. There are law suits out now for baby powder, roundup, water, etc. The FDA passed ingredients in foods and even drugs that other countries have banned for good reason. These drug companies set aside slush funds, x amount of dollars/ prescription sold goes to pay off future law suits.
So alot of these things that the consumer has little control over or even knowledge of until years later that result in illnesses should be free. If you're an Xtreme sports activists and or do a lot of risky ventures outside of your job, then not free.
So we should accept many of these illnesses are problems of our modern society. So one option or answer I've heard somewhere before is to create a slush fund when you pay your taxes. Could be voluntary contribution and or could be a national lottery fund. Contribute to decrease your premiums and have a chance to win huge amounts of cash. Numbers should be based your social security numbers, or work id numbers.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

This I can agree with. I would support universal heath checkups for everyone.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Why?

1. Because your government has the power to sacrifice your kids lives to defend our country. If they can put your children in danger or use their lives as pawns, the least they can do is provide all American citizens health care. They've even turned their backs on veterans.

2. Because preserving human life is a basic human right. Most industrialized nations get it! Unfortunately the United State's current healthcare system believes only those who can afford it should have the right to preserve their lives. Those who can't afford it or don't get healthcare benefits through their employer should just be kicked to the curb and die. I really doubt most Americans subscribe to that type of callous sympathy for their fellow citizens.

3. If trillions of our tax dollars are going toward military spending, overseas military bases and foreign aid, I think the American tax payer deserves to have some of those tax dollars used to provide access to a doctor for themselves and their family. It's about time our taxes are spent for it's citizens here at home.

4. Just because I'm lucky to have healthcare insurance through my employer doesn't mean I turn my back on less unfortunate people who through no fault of their own don't have it. Would you walk on by a person who was hurt or struggling on the street? I don't think many would and that's exactly what our current healthcare system does.

5. Every human life is precious. We fight for the unborn, yet we turn our backs on the living.

6. If everyone contributed to a healthcare tax, it would be a hell of a lot less than paying monthly premiums and businesses wouldn't have to provide healthcare insurance to their employees.

7. Healthcare shouldn't be managed for profit. Insurance companies are over-riding what doctors feel is best for their patients or refusing to allow life saving procedures. The current system has also caused prescription costs and hospital care costs to be out of reach by many who don't have a top of the line health insurance program.

8. Just because you don't need a doctor's care now, doesn't mean you won't need one in the future. You also don't know if you'll be able to afford the medical expense or care if your physical problem becomes serious. Hindsight is 20/20.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:31 PM
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Here we go again,

Three pages of back and forth on healthcare and not one single post directly addressing the rediculous high cost here in the states.

Here's truth,

Current system will overwhelm entire federal budget in 4 to 6 years.

Expected Trump changes get 6 years.

Universal care even sooner.

Without addressing cost you folks are rearranging deck chairs on a sinking ship.

How does government address cost?

It's quite simple, uphold longstanding laws!

Federal and State laws covering monopolistic practices, price collusion, billing for like services, price gouging, fraudulent practices, upfront pricing routine services and a plethora of federal and state consumer laws.

Before claiming medical is immune look up two pertinent SCOTUS cases ruling just the opposite.

Unless and until you stop screaming for "insurance" or "single payer" and start insistently screaming for law to be upheld then this charade we have now will take down economy and you will end up with absolutely nothing anyway.

Healthcare costs were this done should drop from over 19% GDP to 3% which was traditional percentage up until 30 years ago.

That's roughly an 80% reduction! !!!

It is possible to afford care at those cost levels for nearly everyone.

Taxpayers could well afford care for the rest without breaking the bank.

The chances of most folks actually doing anything even when informed how badly they are ripped off in current system is about nill.

They are just that stupid.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:31 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: mOjOm

This I can agree with. I would support universal heath checkups for everyone.


Oh yeah? And who is going to pay for that?

You are all over the place.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:32 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: Ohanka

The problem is universal healthcare would increase the proportion of people genetically vulnerable to disease. Defense, police, firefighters, garbage collectors, public schools, none of them cause any change in the makeup of society. Universal healthcare would.


How?



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:32 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

It's not being forced. Everyone puts in a little bit. Even the person getting help pays too. So do his parents, and family members, etc. It's not like they aren't also paying into the pool also.

It just makes it easier for everyone.

Since we'd also all be using it. Some more than others but that's fine.

The way you're talking I don't even know why you live in society at all. You seem to think that your life and everything in it is solely of your own making.

Do you realize how many thing you enjoy that others have created that you simply take for granted. Society is built upon people working together. If everyone was like you we'd all be cave men still who all live alone.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:33 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: Ohanka

The problem is universal healthcare would increase the proportion of people genetically vulnerable to disease. Defense, police, firefighters, garbage collectors, public schools, none of them cause any change in the makeup of society. Universal healthcare would.


I do not like abortion one bit. It's a horrible thing and I cannot think of a worse decision a parent would have to make, but I think abortion is their right to choose.

That being said, you disagree with abortion and called it murder, but without it we would have people born with genetic defects and vulnerabilities that would not only be a burden on the healthcare system but cause them to suffer as well.

Could it be argued that abortion, when done in the case of genetic defect or disease, is in and of itself a "survival of the fittest" action, which you support?



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: Ohanka

Universal healthcare would save people who would otherwise have died or not passed on their genes. Natural selection would have weeded them out because they cannot afford all that money for healthcare by themselves. Over time, there would be more and more people vulnerable to diseases in society, changing the makeup of society and making the taxes required higher and higher. Other social programs like defense, public education, firefighters, garbage collectors do not change the makeup of society and does not require tax rate changes.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:34 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
Some people might say, if children receive free education from childhood to 18 with taxpayer money, then why is it not fair for everyone to cover everyone else's healthcare with taxpayer money? Everyone's kids need education, but not everyone needs to see a doctor. People who are genetically good almost never get sick. People who are genetically bad get sick pretty much all the time. That's why everyone are willing to pay for free education for everyone else, but not everyone is willing to pay for free healthcare of everyone else.

I've never been to a doctor all my life, so why should I pay for someone else who needs to and can't afford it?



I'm super careful with fire safety so I shouldn't have to pitch in for fire departments. I take the train to work so I shouldn't have to pitch in for infrastructure.

Etc, etc.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:34 PM
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a reply to: WeRpeons

Not pro life, but awesome post.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:34 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: Ohanka

Universal healthcare would save people who would otherwise have died or not passed on their genes. Natural selection would have weeded them out because they cannot afford all that money for healthcare by themselves. Over time, there would be more and more people vulnerable to diseases in society, changing the makeup of society and making the taxes required higher and higher. Other social programs like defense, public education, firefighters, garbage collectors do not change the makeup of society and does not require tax rate changes.


You keep repeating this and it just makes you look like a total psychopath.

It is not a good argument.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 08:34 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Ultimately you should be able to be born and live without paying money to anyone.

I understand why you and others think we need to provide everyone with everything, but I like the idea of being able to simply EXIST without paying some jack wagon money for the privilege.




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