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Why I decided to oppose universal healthcare

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posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

I think you have a different definition for compassion than the rest of us.




posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:27 AM
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a reply to: Hazardous1408

Compassion has to be in accordance with God, with nature. God intends to weed out the genetically vulnerable with natural selection. Genetic mutations are mistakes. Genetically vulnerable are born from genetically strong all the time due to mutation. Natural selection keeps their numbers low. Universal healthcare must not interfere with that, or else they are saved and their numbers increase and increase the tax burden to save more and more of them. Everyone grows old and get cancer naturally. That's why free healthcare for the elderly is compassion that is compatible with God and nature.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:38 AM
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originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: allsee4eye

I think you have a different definition for compassion than the rest of us.


You and the rest of us are wasting our time. He keeps using his "God", whatever God that is, to justify his weird eugenics program. His arguments haven't changed once in the past 15 pages, nor has he addressed any criticism in a meaningful manner.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:52 AM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

All life is, is a competition from various organism vs. a cold callous natural world for survival. All evolution is, is various organisms developing ways to combat the world around them to ensure the survival of their species. Evolution takes many forms, not simply biological. The first animal to dig a burrow evolved in a non physical manner. The first animal to develop empathy and compassion bond into groups to work together for mutual survival evolved sociologically. The first bone that was set, and the first hunter that hunted once again because that bone healed was an evolution of science.

The goal is not to make some biological super man, it's to survive as a species. It's to develop traits that help and ensure that survival. Traits like compassion, empathy, caring for others, helping each, advancing science, advancing health care, these things are evolution. Universal healthcare is the evolution of empathy and compassion. It's the group working together for mutual survival.

There is no natural law. Nature is not a sentient being, it has no emotion or care. It's simply an obstacle that exists to be overcome. It doesn't care if you're a superhuman, a hurricane can kill you just the same, so can a tornado, a rock slide, a lightning bolt, or any number of basically random natural events that don't give a crap who they kill.

Evolving means one thing and one thing only, beating nature, overcoming it, and surviving despite it. It doesn't matter if we overcome the common flu through immunity via mass die offs, or via creating medicine and advancing science to combat it. In both cases life continues... well except in the first scenario as you're pretty much leaving up to nature to decide when any humans survive the flu, which is random chance as nature doesn't give a #, better hope this isn't that one fatal disease there is no immunity for, otherwise bye bye humanity.

You can evolve, biologically, socially, and scientifically. What you are espousing in to ignore scientific and social evolution and rely entirely on biological evolution. That's frankly absurd and simply puts us back before man even existed, as our predecessors evolved past such nonsense long before we even evolved.

Addendum: Biological evolution is the lowest kind of evolution, it's what every being relies on when it has NO other means to survive. Biological evolution is the weakest cause it tends to be niche and has little ability to adapt to changes. Social evolution is the next step, it allows groups to succeed better than individuals as there is strength in numbers. Not only that but social caring has the chance of allowing for members that may have died not to by being cared for and protected when harmed. Then comes intellectual/scientific evolution, which allows us to even further overcome and defend against that which would kill or harm us.

As we evolve further our quality of life grows, and more and more of our species can succeed in surviving and overcoming nature. That's successful evolution. We've long since surpassed the need to rely simply upon biological evolution for survival. We're far greater and more advanced than that. We're humans not single celled organisms. Embrace who and what we are, embrace all we've accomplished, embrace the true fruits of human evolution, and help it move forward. Let us become all we can be. Embrace social an scientific evolution, stop being a one celled organism relying purely on biology. Become a part of the human species, the part of the society, embrace sciences ability to create a positive future for ALL our species. We humans have already won the rat race. It's about time we realize it, stop running in circles, and embrace the fruits of our labors. We're struggling merely because we're still too stupid to realize we no longer have to.
edit on 6/16/2017 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 08:01 AM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

I'm in Canada as well, and it really depends on where you are in the country. Where I live, we have good health care service.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 08:07 AM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Survival of the fittest doesn't exist? Every day, millions of herbivores get eaten. Every day, millions of carnivores starve to death because they are too slow or stupid to catch food. That seems to exist in my books. That is natural selection. Without natural selection, humans would be as silly as apes, still sleeping in trees.

Are you sure you took that free education you mentioned?



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 08:10 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

Nature is orderly. Nature is mathematical. Life evolves to become more complex and more intelligent. That is the purpose of life. Mutations are not random. They are created by nature. Every person is God's creation.

Strong can be born from weak. Weak can be born from strong. Without natural selection, one can expect, no evolution.
edit on 16-6-2017 by allsee4eye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 08:13 AM
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I think there is this mass psychosis the human species has been suffering from since the beginning, from a time when we lived in fear for our lives every hour of every day, and we are still struggling to get past being afraid of the dark.

We have gotten as far as we have because a percentage, an unfortunately small percentage, of us realize that technologies and methods of doing things that can make life better for everyone should be used for exactly that, to make life better for everyone.

The selfishness stems from a time when we didn't know where our next meal would come from, where we would shelter from the weather when we slept, where we would raise our young without losing them to predators and such.

We need to grow up and transcend the old fear and uncertainties that no longer apply, and we have in many ways.

...We need to evolve further still...



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

There should be free basic social services to all. Free education for everyone's children, free police services, free fire services, free garbage collection services, free defense services, free emergency services. As for healthcare, the US already has free emergency services. If the rich pay for the healthcare of the poor who cannot afford it, what's in it for the rich? If the rich transfers wealth to the poor, what's the incentive to become rich?



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Life does not evolve to become more intelligent. Sometimes it just evolves to eat the weird yellow leaves.

And once again, there's more than one kind of evolution. Stop living like an amoeba.

Oh and I added an addendum to my previous post while you were responding.
edit on 6/16/2017 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

Exactly, we're all simply struggling because we're still too stupid to realize we no longer have to.

Way to many people insist we need to struggle our whole simply because they had to. As long as that mentality exists, life will never improve and become what it could be.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

There should be free basic social services to all. Free education for everyone's children, free police services, free fire services, free garbage collection services, free defense services, free emergency services. As for healthcare, the US already has free emergency services. If the rich pay for the healthcare of the poor who cannot afford it, what's in it for the rich? If the rich transfers wealth to the poor, what's the incentive to become rich?


Why do you value incentives to get rich more highly than caring for others?

Their wealth is reliant on others health (employees/consumers) and every single service they use is dependent on the people providing them having access to adequate healthcare.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: bastion

I agree with adequate measure. A need based universal healthcare could be problematic if abused. A person who otherwise does not go to the hospital may visit the hospital far more frequently claiming there is a need when it is something not serious.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: Hazardous1408

God's law is natural law. Survival of the fittest. If it wasn't for survival of the fittest over the past hundreds of thousands of years, 99% of people would have to take medicine every single day, common flu would be lethal.


I think you got mixed up somewhere. I thought that was Satan's Law.
What happened to "Do unto others as you would have done to yourself"?
edit on 16-6-2017 by Barliman because: a typo



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:08 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: bastion

I agree with adequate measure. A need based universal healthcare could be problematic if abused. A person who otherwise does not go to the hospital may visit the hospital far more frequently claiming there is a need when it is something not serious.


Anything other than a needs based healthcare system is unjustifiable.

If my liver decided to fail I would not be at all pleased if I couldn't get a new one because last week I had visited the doctor about a fever I had.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: bastion

I agree with adequate measure. A need based universal healthcare could be problematic if abused. A person who otherwise does not go to the hospital may visit the hospital far more frequently claiming there is a need when it is something not serious.

We have had universal healthcare in Australia since the early 1970's, and I work within the system.
Overall this is not a big problem.
Any visit to hospital involves long waits in the ED (unless you show clear signs of being an emergency presentation). As a rule the long waits in a hospital environment repel most unnecessary visits--- and a few necessary ones too.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

...And this seemingly pointless struggle to live a life at least a little more happy, a little more free, a life we feel good about without others coming in and putting us down for being who we are compared to themselves and destroying any good feeling we may have about ourselves is what makes people snap and lash out and hurt themselves and others...

Current events on the news wire are oftentimes examples of people who tried their entire lives only to be shat upon by the banks and government and other people who thought them to be lesser than they are, frequently amounting to little more than bullying...

It even comes up in conversation face to face and online that I am not qualified to have any understanding of how these things like bullying and exploitation affect people, and that itself is a way of discounting me as a person and what I have to offer.

Credentials can be forged and edited, most with credentials are not what they would have you believe themselves to be.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:19 AM
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People who are genetically good almost never get sick.
I guess those are the humans that never die. Lol



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:25 AM
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A lot of you keep bringing up that the rich need to be compensated for pitching into the pot for the entire society, when the rich, being rich, really should do it out of gratitude for being fortunate enough to be wealthy at all.

Nobody gets rich without taking advantage of, or exploiting someone or something, even a lottery winner gains from the hopes and dreams of a whole bunch of all types of people who contributed to the lottery fund.

The poor pay taxes too, which serves to keep them poorer than they would be otherwise.

This "carrot on a stick" stuff really needs to stop. People need to be honest, and the people who don't see the arrangement for what it is need to be educated to see it for what it is.

Nothing has really changed here since before this country was founded, excepting technology.

...Oh yeah, the Commons are up for sale, and with the selling of the commons comes the loss of rights to the commons...



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:32 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: bastion

I agree with adequate measure. A need based universal healthcare could be problematic if abused. A person who otherwise does not go to the hospital may visit the hospital far more frequently claiming there is a need when it is something not serious.


Along those lines and besides fact the US can not afford "free" healthcare in currently lawless form and setting aside constitutional objections.

"Free" healthcare would remove any remaining incentives for many to improve lifestyles.

Why bother when someone else is footing the bill when it comes due?

Yes there are many with conditions not of their own doing that deserve consideration.

However I see much of general public out numbering the deserving with horribly bad habits that directly and without doubt self-inflict damage to their health.

Free doctor visit, give lip service to doctor, receive a temporary drug "fix", go home and make another jumbo pizza to follow the one consumed for breakfast , wash down with second gallon of soda and start on third pack of smokes for the day - all the while bemoaning how unfair life is and complaining "someone" should fix all that ails them, of course at no cost or effort to themselves.

That situation is not one I consider deserving of others time or money.

Guilt society should have is setting up systems that perpetuated the behavior, certainly not adding to it with even more "free" stuff.



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