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Why I decided to oppose universal healthcare

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posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: TerryDon79

really, I am appalled




posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 11:07 PM
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a reply to: toolgal462

Oh I think the OP was and is trolling. But there is always good/bad points from the usual suspects.

The OP had little to do with this being an interesting thread.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 11:13 PM
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a reply to: toolgal462





No one can be this wicked


I'm not so sure about that.



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 11:18 PM
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originally posted by: Hazardous1408
Those who won't look after the weakest in society (re:" If some poor people have genetic disease and needs to see the doctor a lot, why should I be forced to pay for his health fees"), are no friend of humanity.

It borders on sociopathic to measure the health of your people with dollar signs.


Well stated.

Charging people for healthcare is a mental health issue. Actually, a crisis.

Most college students say they are becoming nurses or docs for the money and as an 'oh by the way..." say, " I care about people too."

Uh huh.

Most of the medical staff acts snobbish, unsmiling and uncaring. They fart through their job and can't wait to get off. These healthcare sheeple are themselves in a mental crisis but their illness in their failure to see all people's healthcare as precious and priceless keeps a fkd up system in place.

Oh my God how awesome will it be and is when people are healed by laying on hands in Jesus Christ's name. Totally. But see that's a threat to their business they've made huge. Insurance companies are Judases exchanging money/silver/gold selling out Jesus Christ and His power. Buy insurance it will protect you. Wrong. Jesus Christ does. Who is love, grace, mercy...all what healthcare should emulate.
edit on 15-6-2017 by WhiteWingedMonolith because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 12:14 AM
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I agree with the OP. Imo, Universal Healcare sounds great but here is what I HAVE EXPERIENCED. I had an auto-imune disease. Medicines alone were $4,000 per month without insurance. I chose a decent paying career in 2007 that offered 100% medical coverage that bumped down to 90% when Obamacare took place. As the monthly Doctors visits were exhausting and the Doctors pushing more drugs, and costing me more money... I got sick and tired of being sick an tired.

Fast Forward to summer 2016, as I sat at my job (technical support analyst) I asked myself WHY have I been in this industry and career for 10+ years? My answer to myself, cuz I know computers and NEEDED the medical (my skewed thinking of decent wealth + heal coverage). So I applied my skills to myself....I read and watched info about Epigenetics ( YouTube Dr. Bruce Lipton Epigenetics). So I brought up EPIGENETICS with the Doctors that told me; "You HAVE to take these medications the rest of your life and there is nothing else you can do because it's IN YOUR GENES." Hrmmmm, the more I asked questions, I was treated like a little kid and I will never forget the victim face these doctors tried to throw on me. I did ask questions back in 2005 when I first was diagnosed, but fell into the con of..."these are the cards that life has dealt you buddy", so I gulibly accepted the Doctors terms.

I called it quits summer 2016....never went back to the doctor, left my unhealthy stressful job of sitting all day. What did I do? I switched my diet to basically Raw Vegan, and ishhhh got REAL BETTER and I stopped taking all meds. Now I have more focus because I decided to take action on my OWN health. This incurable autoimmune disease is completely GONE. Yea a doctor will just say ahh it went into remission or some excuse. But I truly feel that everyone should govern their own health *not advising to stop your meds, but encourage you to research the CAUSE of any medical issues*

As for the Public Education system, it has failed me. If I ever have children, I shall use Dr. Ron Paul's homeschooling program cuz he seems to be one of very few Doctors worth listening to. Go 200+ years back in time and people chased valuable crops. Because food = life. Now the focus is to chase paper money...which I realize is less important than my health. When I made my tough decision last year I chose my HEALTH over WEALTH.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 12:34 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
Personally, I support free emergency care. I do not support free care for people who are genetically vulnerable to diseases, because otherwise if they get saved, their proportion in society would increase and drive up the tax needed to save them.


Let's say someone dear to you such as a very close family member was suddenly diagnosed as having a life threatening genetic disorder...

Would you be happy to contribute your tax dollars to save his/her life or would you simply let that person suffer and die? (Survival of the fittest as you put it!)

Warmest

Lags



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 12:44 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: carewemust

It's a matter of willingness. Everyone needs their kids educated. Not everyone needs healthcare. Universal kids education is palatable to all. Universal healthcare is not.


Everyone does need medical care at some point between the womb (pre-natal care) and kicking the bucket.

But ONE of the biggest pushback will come from people who are unwilling to PAY THE ADDITIONAL TAXES (est $4,800 @ year, to start with..) for universal healthcare.


REGARDING: www.kff.org...:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

73% of Americans have health insurance either through their Employer, or Medicaid, or VA.

Many (most?) people who have health insurance at work, pay less than $4,800 a year for their insurance premium. They will resist any movement toward Universal Healthcare.

Individuals who earn up to $16,800 in 32 states are eligible for FREE Medicaid. Naturally, they will resist Universal Healthcare as well. So will those who receive free Veterans Administration medical care.



edit on 6/16/2017 by carewemust because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 01:43 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
I've never been to a doctor all my life, so why should I pay for someone else who needs to and can't afford it?

Seems shallow, short sighted and completely selfish/greedy to me.
Do you see shallow, short sighted and completely selfish/greedy... as 'virtues'?



edit on 16-6-2017 by namelesss because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 01:50 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
Some people might say, if children receive free education from childhood to 18 with taxpayer money, then why is it not fair for everyone to cover everyone else's healthcare with taxpayer money? Everyone's kids need education, but not everyone needs to see a doctor. People who are genetically good almost never get sick. People who are genetically bad get sick pretty much all the time. That's why everyone are willing to pay for free education for everyone else, but not everyone is willing to pay for free healthcare of everyone else.

I've never been to a doctor all my life, so why should I pay for someone else who needs to and can't afford it?



Absolute rubbish. Firstly 'survival of the fittest' is a twisting of what Darwin actually said. Secondly I don't give a tuppenny damn about the fact that you don't think that you should pay for other people's healthcare. If you are a part of any kind of healthcare scheme, other people are paying for you. And lastly your point about never going to a doctor can't possibly be correct. Have you never had a flu shot? Vaccination? And by the way, I had never been to a doctor for years - until last week. A spider bit me a bunch of times on the elbow and it blew up like a balloon - and then became infected. A red line went up my arm, meaning the start of sepsis. My wife drove me at once to the local ER, where I got a huge dose of penicillin and a course of penicillin tablets. Was that my fault? No.
Universal healthcare is needed. It's fair.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 02:28 AM
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If you don't like to pay tax - what can you do?
Agree to pay tax not agree to pay tax.
If you don't agree, then what can you do get out of society and take your own responsibility.
Change it?

What if your actions cause someone else to get sick?
Are you responsible for it? Do you compensate them for it?
List your actions one by one and see if any of them contribute to other people getting sick.

Do you drive a car truck, sell others bad food for a quick buck?

Limbo
edit on 16-6-2017 by Limbo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:07 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Heya metallicus.

Kinda funny ironic thing what you said.

"it shouldn't cost money just to be born"

It costs thousands up to tens of thousands, actually, to have a normal child birth at a hospital.

I didn't pay for it, because medicaid saved me and covered it..and thank God it did.

I'm never fully serious, but sometimes I think we should have a system - you choose not to let your money go towards public services, great.

You can't use public roads, you can't enjoy parks, fire trucks will let your house burn and just make sure others that are paying them get their fires put out.

Now, obviously that's just ridiculous, right?

Apply the same logic to Healthcare, and you'll see what people on the other side are saying.

You're already paying for those who can't pay... You just happen to be paying several times, or more, the actual worth of their care when compared to costs around the world.

So... Why not organize that chaos a little better and just make everyone covered?
edit on 16-6-2017 by deadlyhope because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:35 AM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Metallicus

Heya metallicus.

Kinda funny ironic thing what you said.

"it shouldn't cost money just to be born"

It costs thousands up to tens of thousands, actually, to have a normal child birth at a hospital.

I didn't pay for it, because medicaid saved me and covered it..and thank God it did.

I'm never fully serious, but sometimes I think we should have a system - you choose not to let your money go towards public services, great.

You can't use public roads, you can't enjoy parks, fire trucks will let your house burn and just make sure others that are paying them get their fires put out.

Now, obviously that's just ridiculous, right?

Apply the same logic to Healthcare, and you'll see what people on the other side are saying.

You're already paying for those who can't pay... You just happen to be paying several times, or more, the actual worth of their care when compared to costs around the world.

So... Why not organize that chaos a little better and just make everyone covered?


Some thoughts..

The OPs personality type, His/her actions vs. consequences of others.
People are selfish by nature, they battle it out for control them vs us.
It just depends on how "triggered" they are by the force pressing back on you.

Perhaps the OP doesn't have much money?
Perhaps the OP has lots of money.
It goes on and on.

Why should his/her property be taken from him by force?

If the OP votes then he accepts he is going to be taxed.
if he doesn't vote then he/she can justify the fact that governments are tyranny.


Limbo



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 03:47 AM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

It's working for other Civilized Country's just fine and has been for decades. I think the brainwashing you've received has retarded you to the point of unsolicited fear that simply does not exist, you need to let go of that # and embrace it. Embrace oneness. You can do it!

Just saying.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 04:08 AM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Yes, let the poor and weak die in the streets, because thats what a civil society does right? Why don't we just gas them and be done with it?



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 05:39 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
Let's say there is universal healthcare, it has to be structured to be fair, age based. The older, the more one receives for healthcare. The younger, the less one receives for healthcare. It cannot be the same amount per person. Let's say I'm 70, I would have to receive twice as much as someone who is 35 in order to be fair, because elderly are more vulnerable to disease than younger people.


Well there goes your 'rich people are strong' and 'don't play god' arguments. Surely in your backwards money over morality system the old elderly wouldn't be elligible for treatment because they'd exhausted their earning potential thus would be subhuman parasites?



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:26 AM
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1 person 1 vote. No discrimination based on anything. If universal healthcare is to be accepted by all, it must not be age based, it must not be need based, it must provide the same dollar amount to every person, just like every kid is provided with public education to age 18 without discrimination based on need or age or any social factor.
edit on 16-6-2017 by allsee4eye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:41 AM
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a reply to: capncrunch88

Emergency healthcare is free and I also advocate for free healthcare for the elderly 70 years or older.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:48 AM
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originally posted by: Limbo

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Metallicus

Heya metallicus.

Kinda funny ironic thing what you said.

"it shouldn't cost money just to be born"

It costs thousands up to tens of thousands, actually, to have a normal child birth at a hospital.

I didn't pay for it, because medicaid saved me and covered it..and thank God it did.

I'm never fully serious, but sometimes I think we should have a system - you choose not to let your money go towards public services, great.

You can't use public roads, you can't enjoy parks, fire trucks will let your house burn and just make sure others that are paying them get their fires put out.

Now, obviously that's just ridiculous, right?

Apply the same logic to Healthcare, and you'll see what people on the other side are saying.

You're already paying for those who can't pay... You just happen to be paying several times, or more, the actual worth of their care when compared to costs around the world.

So... Why not organize that chaos a little better and just make everyone covered?


Some thoughts..

The OPs personality type, His/her actions vs. consequences of others.
People are selfish by nature, they battle it out for control them vs us.
It just depends on how "triggered" they are by the force pressing back on you.

Perhaps the OP doesn't have much money?
Perhaps the OP has lots of money.
It goes on and on.

Why should his/her property be taken from him by force?

If the OP votes then he accepts he is going to be taxed.
if he doesn't vote then he/she can justify the fact that governments are tyranny.


Limbo





please excuse my ignorance ... what is it you are trying to say ? From my end I totally get where deadlyhope is coming from, what does univerals healthcare have to do with being taxed in your view ?



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 06:49 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: capncrunch88

Emergency healthcare is free and I also advocate for free healthcare for the elderly 70 years or older.


I'm 68 and broke do I qualify for healthcare
?



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 07:02 AM
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I would accept universal healthcare under 1 condition. The same dollar amount for every person with no discrimination based on need or age or any social factor. Let's say every person pays tax to provide every person with 200 dollars of healthcare annually. The rich will likely not need it and therefore keep it. The poor will likely need it and therefore spend it. The end result is this plan would, to a large extent, not hurt the rich and benefit the poor.

However, people who have certain genetic vulnerabilities like hemophilia would be exempted from this plan because we do not want to interfere with natural selection which naturally weed out those with genetic vulnerabilities in order to keep their numbers low. Due to genetic mutation, people with genetic vulnerabilities are born from people without genetic vulnerabilities all the time, and it would cause problems to save them and increase tax burden over time as their numbers increase in society.

Lastly, I would support free healthcare for the elderly simply because humans have compassion compared to wild animals.




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