Officials Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter For Flint Water Crisis

originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: Boadicea

Sorry. I meant that they need to prove where the contamination came from. Show that it was the water company's fault. I didn't mean you.

Ahhhhh... then that's different! Thank you.

According to the source, officials had been informed, presumably by those in a position to know and substantiate the claim:

Researchers linked the outbreak of Legionella bacteria to corrosion resulting from the mistreatment of Flint’s water starting in 2014.... Emails obtained by a liberal watchdog group last year revealed that the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services knew of the Legionella outbreak in 2015 and even told the governor’s office ― but said it wasn’t a serious problem.

Perhaps even worse:

Additionally, Dr. Eden Wells, the state’s chief medical officer, has been charged with obstruction of justice and lying to a police officer.

The burden of proof is indeed on the prosecution, but there does seem to be documented evidence that they knew and did not take appropriate action. And my best guess is that Nick Lyon, Director of the Michigan Dept of Health and Human Services and one of those charged, is going to bear the brunt of this going forward since his Dept is the one who (allegedly) said "it wasn't a serious problem." As well as the "former Flint water manager Howard Croft, and Liane Shekter-Smith and Stephen Busch of the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality." They all should have known better. But the state imposed Emergency Manager at the time, Darnell Earley, can probably rightfully claim that he had to rely on the experts and he got bad advice from those who should have known better.

They'll get their day in court. If the prosecutor cannot make his case, then the defendants will (rightfully) walk.

They're being tired at the state level, therefore community service on weekends and two years probation.

a reply to: Boadicea
That's just it, there's been years of this and eventually it was going to break, there has to be enough proof to lay it all out.

Source below may display the development well for those new to the topic,etc.

originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: Boadicea

Sorry. I meant that they need to prove where the contamination came from. Show that it was the water company's fault. I didn't mean you.

They were pumping the water out of the Flint River, the incoming water was filled with contaminants including sewage which is full of pathogens which can expose older and very young immune systems, for example, to serious complications including death.

Rather than broker a stop-gap water contract with Detroit, the emergency manager signed an order to pump water out of the Flint River, because, hey, free water. The move was expected to save about $1 million a year.

Flint River water? It's about as delicious as it sounds. The Detroit water system had provided Flint with fresh water pumped from the depths of Lake Huron. By contrast, the Flint River is tainted by farm runoff, sewage and decades of industrial effluent.

Which of course, is not fit to be ingested, even after it was treated, as the treatment of the water caused even more issues which first broke into the national news about Flint.

Was the city not treating the water?

They were. But Flint River water is difficult to sanitize because it contains high levels of chloride. Chloride is corrosive to iron. Corroding iron, in turn, consumes chlorine — defeating the pathogen-killer that is added to drinking water to make it safe. Experts write that the corrosive quality of Flint River water makes it "very difficult to meet Federal standards for minimum chlorine levels no matter what is done" to treat it.

But where did the lead come from?

The water coming out of the Flint River isn't tainted with lead. But its corrosive quality leaches lead out of the city's aging plumbing. By one measure, Flint River water is 12 times as corrosive to lead as the water that came from Detroit. There are lead pipes throughout the system, most often service lines connecting homes to the the city's water mains. And in most homes built before th

Continued...

It isn't just Flint affected by water concerns, there are issues all over the US that have been a long time pushed aside and are now being revealed:
"What's in Your Water? Flint and Beyond"
Source and map

originally posted by: flatbush71
They're being tired at the state level, therefore community service on weekends and two years probation.

You're probably right. But if that's the best we can get, I'll take it. Any legal precedent set at this point is an improvement over what we've been contending with.

a reply to: dreamingawake

Excellent information -- thank you for posting it here

Lead contamination in our water supplies -- and all kinds of contaminants, actually -- are a much bigger problem than our officials want to address properly. Flint has been well documented in all its fugliness for the whole world to see, but it's just one of many major cities.

Let's hope this is the beginning of much wider accountability AND genuine corrective action.

6000 cases of Legionnaires' Disease reported in the US in 2015.
www.foxnews.com...

Nobody else is being charged in connection with them. If the lead in the water was caused by a criminal act, by all means hang the people who are responsible. In my opinion these charges are a political farce.

originally posted by: JIMC5499
6000 cases of Legionnaires' Disease reported in the US in 2015.
www.foxnews.com...

From your link:

The county where the city of Flint is located was found to have 87 cases of Legionnaires’ between June 2014 and November 2015.

Half of the cases were connected to Flint water, and half were not, according to state health officials. According to the CDC, about 6,000 cases of Legionnaires’ disease were reported in the U.S. in 2015.

So one city (that isn't even in the top 200 cities by population) had approximately 1.5% of all cases... what's wrong with those numbers???

Nobody else is being charged in connection with them. If the lead in the water was caused by a criminal act, by all means hang the people who are responsible. In my opinion these charges are a political farce.

We obviously cannot speak to other cases in terms of criminal liability, but in the Flint case we do know that the water was contaminated, that those responsible for maintaining the safety of the water supplies knew the water was contaminated, that the responsible authorities refused to take corrective action, and that people were hurt and died because of it. That sounds criminal to me.

The prosecutors obviously feel they have the appropriate and proper evidence to prove criminal liability. Unless and until we know exactly what that evidence is, it's impossible to call this a "farce."

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
You know someone recently tried to blame the crisis on people not paying their water bills.

As if that somehow magically adds lead to the water.


Some sick bastards involved in this.
& it would never happen in a rich neighbourhood.

Class warfare is real.

good thing the republicans are gutting the EPA.....more dead poor people!...yeah!!.....maybe people back east should be insisting on having an independent company check their own water supplies....a lot of those systems go back many decades, no telling how many "flints" are out there....but, I'm willing to bet that they ARE NOT in the wealthier parts of cities and towns...just a hunch

originally posted by: veracity
Involuntary manslaughter? Republicans in office should be charged with that if trumpcare goes thru.

Please don't give us this republican bogeyman nonsense you saw on Good Morning America or The View.

originally posted by: Boadicea
But the state imposed Emergency Manager at the time, Darnell Earley, can probably rightfully claim that he had to rely on the experts and he got bad advice from those who should have known better.

I would think the governor is in the same position as Darnell Earley. If the DEQ people are telling him it's not a big deal, how is he going to know better?

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

I would think the governor is in the same position as Darnell Earley. If the DEQ people are telling him it's not a big deal, how is he going to know better?

You could be right. That may be why Snyder has not been charged... well, not yet at least.

It seems to me (but I could be wrong), that it may depend on whether or not Gov Snyder can be implicated in the lying and obstruction of justice charges brought against Dr. Eden Wells, the state’s chief medical officer, who was appointed in 2015, I assume by the governor. As of yet, Gov Snyder has refused to speak to investigators.

The Powers that Be simply realize they need to throw us a bone so they're sacrificing the Flint Michigan people in charge of the whole water fiasco as a "see the law is working" proof to the people so we back off a little. These people aren't untouchable like the Clinton's are, and are a perfectly acceptable sacrifice to the people.

originally posted by: Puppylove
The Powers that Be simply realize they need to throw us a bone so they're sacrificing the Flint Michigan people in charge of the whole water fiasco as a "see the law is working" proof to the people so we back off a little. These people aren't untouchable like the Clinton's are, and are a perfectly acceptable sacrifice to the people.

Sadly, there is much truth to that. Lead contamination, and therefore lead poisoning, is a huge problem in many cities, and especially older buildings like the inner cities. No one in a position of authority and responsibility wants to touch it.

Flint was probably the ideal "bone" to sacrifice because it can be passed off as an isolated temporary incident (they changed their water source) as opposed to the systemic problem that it really is.

Just to be clear though, it doesn't make it right. The systemic lead contamination also needs to be dealt with, and yeah, lots of folks should be prosecuted for their failure to execute the law and protect the people.

a reply to: Puppylove & Boadicea

I see what you're saying, but systemic problems require systemic solutions. Selecting a few scapegoats to hit with manslaughter charges really doesn't do anyone any good.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

No it doesn't do any good. The powers that be aren't trying to fix the corruption problem. They're just "losing" a few select battles to give off the illusion of such and pacify the masses.

The Flint River upstream from Flint has no industry and hasn't in many many years. Flints new waterline will be running soon if it isn't already. Don't forget to blame Detroit they are the ones that forced Flints hands.


Flint Waterline WIKI

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
a reply to: Puppylove & Boadicea

I see what you're saying, but systemic problems require systemic solutions. Selecting a few scapegoats to hit with manslaughter charges really doesn't do anyone any good.

I agree completely

As I said, it doesn't make it right, but it is the reality. On the plus side, Flint is forcing the issue to the forefront of public awareness and it's an opportunity to shine a big fat spotlight on the greater systemic problem. The guilty will try to pass this off as a one-off to protect their best interests. We'll have to wait and see if they're able to do so, or if others are able to prove the lie.

a reply to: Boadicea

They werent exactly innocent scapegoats. These guys ignored complaints and delayed solutions for very LONG periods of time.

Why? I have no idea. Perhaps money was involved, perhaps their cries did not matter bc of their race, either way...they were ignored to the right to have clean water, and children got sick and people died bc of their ignorance.

They told them over and over that the water was ok now...it wasnt. They ignored them and then lied to them on top of it.

They said and did just enough to get by, however, im glad they were caught, and Im glad involuntary manslaughter was charged and I really hope if anyone dies bc of this new trumpcare bill, that all of the republicans in office will be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

The ignorance and greediness of an elite few should NOT effect anyone negatively. Lives were lost, lives can be lost again bc of greediness. Its sad.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: veracity
Involuntary manslaughter? Republicans in office should be charged with that if trumpcare goes thru.

We can start with Dems and Obamacare first, since it was designed to fail (let people die).

the only thing that failed with Obamacare are the republican governers that failed to expand medicaid so that pricing was jacked up high in the red states...that is all.

They derailed Obamacare at the expense of peoples lives...these are the people you are voting into office.