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do Masons hold the necronomicon?

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posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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just finished an interesting read that points to conspiracy(go figure right?) involving the German O.T.O. it basically points to the timeframe when Aleister Crowley befriended Theoor Reuss, head of the German O.T.O at the time, and relates it to the disappearance of the known copies held in various libraries. I'm not very familiar with all the masonic organizatios, especially Ordo Templi Orientis. how is it(or is it at all) connected to masonry?

heres the link:
www.digital-brilliance.com...

it really ties together alot more than I thought...not sure how accurate all this is though. hopefully ML and some of the other well read posters will throw me a bone or two on all this.




posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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Dear god, you do realize that this is a fictional book right? As fictional as Cthulu and the Elder Race and all that right!?



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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It should first be stated that the Necronomicon doesn't really exist...and yet it does.

The 19th century horror writer H.P. Lovecraft wrote stories about two different sets of beings from another dimension: the good guys were called the "Elder Gods", and the bad guys were called "the Ancient Ones". The Elder Gods ordered our dimension and imprisoned the Ancient Ones, who were led by the octopus-like monster Chthulhu, beneath the sea. In Lovecraft's stories, there are various cults who practice black magic that serve the Ancient Ones, and try to use astrology and incantations to free the Ancient Ones whom they worship.

These guys have two books of black magic: the Necronomicon and De Vermis Mysteriis, both which contain formulas to free and serve the Ancient Ones.

All this stuff was made up by Lovecraft, but these stories became very popular among horror fans. In order to cash in, Avon Books published a paperback book called Necronomicon in the mid 70's, based on the Lovecraft tales. There was never a Necronomicon previous to this except in the imagination of Lovecraft, a fiction author. Therefore, the Necronomicon both does, and does not, exist; i.e., it was a fictional invention, but an anonymous writer wrote a "Necronomicon" as a hoax.



I'm not very familiar with all the masonic organizatios, especially Ordo Templi Orientis. how is it(or is it at all) connected to masonry?


Ordo Templi Orientis is not Masonic, but they used the rituals of the old Cerneau Rite (an irregular Scottish Rite organization) as the basis for their own rituals. Reuss wrote their original rituals, but they were re-written by Crowley in the 1920's.

Like Masonry, OTO is divided into degrees, in this case, nine regular degrees, an honorary tenth degree, and a special eleventh degree that elaborates on the magical formula of the ninth degree. The OTO is also different from Masonry in that it requires its members to be Thelemites, which is what the followers of the religion founded by Aleister Crowley call themselves. The religious body within the OTO is called the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, or Gnostic Catholic Church. Third degree members of the OTO are eligible for the priesthood in the Church, while seventh degree members are eligible to become bishops.

OTO is open to both men and women, and women may hold clerical offices, i.e., they may become priestesses and bishopesses.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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I understand that Lovecraft's work was a davinci code of sorts in that it was a work of fiction with a few facts sprinkled in. seems there is an opinion abroad that he based his work on third hand stories of the original and made up things to fill in the blanks. I cant say with certainty that there is not a book(the original) that predates Lovecraft that was written by Alhazred the mad Arab. did you read the link? I am not interested in any info on Lovecraft, he ADMITTED his work was bogus.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by metalmessiah
did you read the link?


Yes, I read through it, and the author seems convinced that the Necronomicon was real, although I personally believe that he knows better and is just running a hoax of his own. I believe this because he keeps using fictional accounts in trying to link the Necronomicom with John Dee, the Enochian Keys, and Crowley. He writes:

"Almost one hundred years later, in 1586, a copy of Wormius's Latin translation surfaced in Prague. Dr. John Dee (left), the famous English magician, and his assistant Edward Kelly (below, right) were at the court of the Emperor Rudolph II to discuss plans for making alchemical gold, and Kelly bought the copy from the so-called "Black Rabbi", the Kabbalist and alchemist Jacob Eliezer, who had fled to Prague from Italy after accusations of necromancy."

Notice that he gives us no reference for this fantastic claim; apparently, we're just supposed to take his word for it.

In reality, there was no mention of a Necronomicon anywhere before Lovecraft; the above account, as well as others on that page concerning a pre-Lovecraft Necronomicon, are fabricated.

There are, however, quite a few grimoires that inspired Lovecraft to invent the Necronomicon. The most famous are the Clavicula Solomos (Greater Key of Solomon) and Lemegeton (Lesser Key of Solomon). These manuscripts are authentic, and are in the British Museum; they have been translated into English, and are available in occult books stores.

Crowley himself translated a part of the Lemegeton commonly called the Goetia.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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www.abovetopsecret.com...

Other than the British Museum ms mentioned in the above thread, there's two related published Necro's - one is based on the ms. and should be availible from skoob books in London, Colin Wilson is one of the authors. The other one is a paperback from Avon books.

The Creation stories etc that feature in relation to the Necronomicon (means book of dead names, or calling forth of the dead) are basicly the exact same ones in the Sumerian tablets as featured in the works of Sitchin, and many more.

Basicly it says that,

the solar system was different back then to what it is now,

Nibiru or Marduk, which could have been a comet or could have been part of Sirius when it went supernova, or could have been an artificial planet, came into this solar system, hit Tiamat, creating the asteroid belt, the Earth, possibly Chrion too, may have altered other orbits - Venus' perhaps ( Venus has a day longer than it's own year ), and stopped the Moon (Kingu) from being a planet in it's own right.
The Moon was placed so as to rebalance what went wrong, or fell into the availible orbit as the solar system rebalanced itself in the same way that a cut heals over.
Humans were created partly from the lifeforms already here, partly from the Nibiru inhabitants ( the Elohim or the Annunaki ), and partly from the Ancient Ones (who could be the original inhabitants anyway).
They were made for various things - mining in South Africa for example.
Or, the 'comet' seeding took place, which was what merged the original lifeforms here with any that were present in some form with what hit here.


Things to consider - the nature of the Earth-Moon system, it's exactly predictable regular total eclipses for example, it is like a giant timepiece we live upon.
The stories present in many cultures about a time here when all was peaceful and in harmony and the planet was upright with different seasons - now it is tilted to an angle of just over 23 degrees. The Sirius Research Group thinks that the tilt might be because of a link with our Sun to Sirius, and not to do with Precession.
Stories again, about headless batlike creatures that escaped their enemies in space, and hid here, and created lifeforms here to hide themselves in - there are accounts of UFOs and ETs that feature the giant headless bats, or archons. It's possible they were here, and were attacked, and this is the result of all that. ( ie - if the archons are the ancient ones, then the Els might have followed them back to here ).
Els are to do with straight lines and angles - not seen in nature, but are known to exist at the atomic scale.
Ancient Ones are more spiral and curved.
The Avon books Necro. has all these seals in them - there are 50 Els seals for example and I think they are all angular - they are the same as the seals made by using magic squares. The Ancient Ones seals are all - more like ptetroglyphs, they have lines in them but they are not angular.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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Things to consider, more of -

that NASA footage, which I think is on the 5-volume UFO footage tape or DVD set (Hesseman), and might be on the released NASA DVDs and videos, that shows what look like deep sea creatures, in space.

And - book called The Cosmic Pulse of Life, has photos and explains what shows up on them, as extremely fast moving lifeforms, they show up in the tiniest amount of frames on infra red film. Look kinda like gigantic single celled animals.

If you have seen those deep sea creatures with all the flashing lights on them, and have seen the UFO footage that shows similar looking beings in space and in this planet's airspace, then you probably would conclude 'as above, so below', for the time being at least.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 07:21 PM
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ML, thanks for the info. I still think you should change your name to human encyclopdeia
where do you find the time to learn all this stuff? I have seen several other sources over the years link Crowley & Necronomicon to Dee & Kelly but that was the first for the Enochian Keys. I dont know if I'm ready to say it didnt exist just because it was never mentioned though. got any good reliable sources for info on Dee, Kelly & Crowley? there is so much out there on Crowley it difficult to seperate the truth from fantasy sometimes...especially about this guy!



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by duff beer dragon
[The Creation stories etc that feature in relation to the Necronomicon (means book of dead names, or calling forth of the dead) are basicly the exact same ones in the Sumerian tablets....

Nibiru or Marduk, which could have been a comet or could have been part of Sirius when it went supernova, or could have been an artificial planet, came into this solar system, hit Tiamat, creating the asteroid belt, the Earth, possibly Chrion too, may have altered other orbits - Venus' perhaps ( Venus has a day longer than it's own year ), and stopped the Moon (Kingu) from being a planet in it's own right.
The Moon was placed so as to rebalance what went wrong, or fell into the availible orbit as the solar system rebalanced itself in the same way that a cut heals over.
Humans were created partly from the lifeforms already here, partly from the Nibiru inhabitants ( the Elohim or the Annunaki ), and partly from the Ancient Ones (who could be the original inhabitants anyway).
They were made for various things - mining in South Africa for example.
Or, the 'comet' seeding took place, which was what merged the original lifeforms here with any that were present in some form with what hit here.


That's a pretty interesting theory, but it all depends totally on an interpretation of the scripts. The tablets don't necessarily contain science - they could just as well hold an allegory for a moral story.
But some scholars do claim that the Enuma Elish is an account of astronomy and cosmology although they can't create a working theory of creation simply because there is not enough information there.
The problem is that there is no mention of specifics. What we have is pretty patchy and can really be interpreted in any way.

The texts can be found here:

www.sacred-texts.com...



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 07:40 AM
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? They had some kind of science - they knew how many planets are in this solar system way before the dates of the far more recent ( Pluto - 1931!!!! ) discoveries of the outer ( radioactive linked ) planets.

How did they know that, without advanced maths and astronomy, or, beings at a further-ahead stage in thinking but not necessarily in emotions.

Have you heard of the book The Crystal Sun? There are example of ancient lenses from the likes of Egypt.
And the Crystal Skull ( the ''Mitchell Hedges'' one ) has very advanced (moreso than today) optical characteristics.


- to that other guy - you never saw any Crowley info. about him using the Enochian Keys?! there is even a recording of him speaking them on the internet someplace, I heard it years ago, it's very scratchy.
It's in everything I ever read that mentioned him too, from trashy bios to the writings of those who continue to join the various orders that he joined and uh modified somewhat.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 07:48 AM
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btw, do you not believe me or something?!

I do have a copy of that whole folio. I checked it over - took notes of the details of it, so that I could compare them to the copies that I ordered.

It's the same one that mentions a 'Dr.Biggs' at the start of it.


It also is called 'the Book of Enoch' by some - because the keys are meant for evolved things like going to heaven......which is what Enoch is said to have done.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by duff beer dragon
They had some kind of science - they knew how many planets are in this solar system way before the dates of the far more recent ( Pluto - 1931!!!! ) discoveries of the outer ( radioactive linked ) planets.


There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the Sumerians knew the make up of our solar system. I certainly wouldn't put much faith in the work of Sitchin - although, as I stated previously, some scholars do promote the Enuma Elish as being a story of astral creation, Sitchin's work has been thoroughly debunked. Most of his work is based on his interpretation of the Berlin Seal and on Immanuel Velikovsky's work. The Seal theory is pure conjecture and Velikvsky himself has credibility issues.

www.ramtops.demon.co.uk...

skepdic.com...

www.forteantimes.com...

www.badastronomy.com...

curious.astro.cornell.edu...


The Sumerians were only aware of planets as far as Saturn. They did theorise that there was another planet and that this was the homeworld of their gods. Sitchin predicted that this planet would swing through our solar system two years ago. It hasn't.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by metalmessiah
I understand that Lovecraft's work was a davinci code of sorts in that it was a work of fiction with a few facts sprinkled in. seems there is an opinion abroad that he based his work on third hand stories of the original and made up things to fill in the blanks. I cant say with certainty that there is not a book(the original) that predates Lovecraft that was written by Alhazred the mad Arab. did you read the link? I am not interested in any info on Lovecraft, he ADMITTED his work was bogus.


The book is bogus. Masonic Light gave you the references. Lovecraft wrote a lot of letters to Clarke Ashton Smith and other horror writers of his time. This is how we know conclusively that it's all made up. Furthermore, the scifi writers who wrote the first Necronomicon back in the 1970's do (or did) the convention circuits and have an entertaining tale or six about how they would go back and forth on what they were going to put in the book.

And Colin Wilson wrote the fictional second book. He didn't translate it from anything.

The Enumma Elish tablets don't contain science. They're Sumerian religious stories. "Nibiru" is not the name of a planet; it's a title (like "your highness" and refers to Marduk the god, not to a planet.)

The Book of Enoch is different from the Enumma Elish. The Book of Enoch is a pseudepigraphical work (a work that claims to be by a biblical character). The Book of Enoch was not included in either the Hebrew or most Christian biblical canons.

You can read it here:
www.heaven.net.nz...



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
There are, however, quite a few grimoires that inspired Lovecraft to invent the Necronomicon. The most famous are the Clavicula Solomos (Greater Key of Solomon) and Lemegeton (Lesser Key of Solomon). These manuscripts are authentic, and are in the British Museum; they have been translated into English, and are available in occult books stores.
Crowley himself translated a part of the Lemegeton commonly called the Goetia.


I was curious as to why you would say that they are authentic? What makes them authentic?



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Osirisrisen


I was curious as to why you would say that they are authentic? What makes them authentic?


They (the Keys of Solomon) are authentic in the sense that they are original works whose manuscripts are in existence. This is contrasted to what I would call the inauthenticity of the Necronomicon; "inauthenticity" in this case meaning the work was not original (it was plagiarized from Lovecraft), and that the publishers claim it had been translated from ancient manuscripts (which definition qualifies as a hoax).



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by metalmessiah
got any good reliable sources for info on Dee, Kelly & Crowley? there is so much out there on Crowley it difficult to seperate the truth from fantasy sometimes...especially about this guy!


There are several good sources. First, Crowley learned Enochian Magick when he became an Adeptus Minor 5° = 6° of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. The Student of that degree was required to master the basics of the Enochian System before advancing to the degree of Adeptus Major. The Enochian papers of the Adeptus Minor Grade can be studied in Dr. Israel Regardie's book "The Golden Dawn"; these papers contain instructions on creating the Tablets, the Keys, the use of Enochian formula with the Z.2 documents of the Magickal Formula of the Outer Order, and even instructions on a magickal game called Enochian Chess (sometimes called Rosicrucian Chess). These documents form the foundation of Crowley's Enochian studies.

Furthermore, you will want to read Crowley's book "The Vision and the Voice", which is a collection of astral visions that Crowley experienced while invoking the the Enochian Aethys. Also, a CD is now available called "The Great Beast Speaks", recorded on analog equipment in the 1920's. It's naturally of poor quality and mostly consists of Crowley reciting his poetry, but it does feature him invoking two of the Keys both in English and Enochian.

Lastly, he wrote about his experiments with Enochian Magick in his autobiography, published under the title "The Confessions of Aleister Crowley".



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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It appears to me that if Crowley and Dee were so powerful with their methodoligies they would have achieved more worldly success. They would have had great riches, wealth, health, and happiness. This appears to have eluded them.

[edit on 8-2-2005 by Osirisrisen]



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Osirisrisen
It appears to me that if Crowley and Dee were so powerful with their methodoligies they would have achieved more worldly success. They would have had great riches, wealth, health, and happiness. This appears to have eluded them.


What you are indicating is materialism, not spirituality. I realize that "magic" as portrayed in popular culture is about getting rich and amassing material fortune, but real Magick is the exact opposite. It requires strict renunciation of the material in favor of those things that feed the soul.

As an ancient Adept once said, you cannot serve both God and Mammon, and it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.




[edit on 8-2-2005 by Masonic Light]



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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Sitchin debunked?!

lol, who by? James Randi?! or CSICOP???!!!

Sitchin reads Sumerian,

are you claiming that one of the other very few people who actually can read that language, is trying to claim that all of his masses of translating are untrue?

I don't think so.

The 10 planets that the ancient Sumerians knew about, is a higher amount than the usual 7 known to the not-as-ancient world.

Maybe you get your Sitchin info. from the same place as you do your shopping ? Those non-existant stores where everything is organic.........



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by duff beer dragon
Sitchin debunked?!

lol, who by? James Randi?! or CSICOP???!!!




Did you actually bother reading any of the links that I posted.
It doesn't matter if Sitchin reads Sumerian or not either. The basis for his Planet X theory was made on pictorial "evidence" on the Berlin Seal. It's based on the symbols - not the language.

www.sitchiniswrong.com...




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