Tower block on fire in London

a reply to: skywatcher44

That was quick Panorama online within two days.

originally posted by: illuminnaughty
Here is a link to an interview with Philip Hammond. Where he BRAGS that the conservatives should be PROUD in getting rid of health and safety regulations. The makers of the cladding said that it should not be used on buildings over 10 meters tall. In fact the cladding is banned in Germany and the USA. Its also banned in the UK. But if the Tories can make a few quid then who cares about them being banned or dangerous.


www.independent.co.uk... acebook-post

He was also on the mars show this morning and could not remember how he voted on the motion to make all homes safe for human habitation. Of course Mars reminded him that he voted against the bill. Well seeing that he is a rich land lord he just wants more money regardless if its made at our expense. How were these snakes allowed to vote on this bill if they are landlords? There were about 60 MPs who voted against it. No doubt they were also landlords. Conflict of interests?

They would have made even more money by banning the flammable cladding. There were both cheaper and more expensive fire resistant options available. I've seen the manufacturers website. One brand (rockwool interior) is marketed as being more fire resistant vs. the other brand (plastic interior) which is marketed as being stronger amd more durable.

a reply to: stormcell

That stuff still burns as well through but i think it's heat resistance is around 700–800°C as apposed to around the 250°C heat resistant cladding that was used in Grenfell tower building.

Combined with the PVC window frames/sills and the temperatures/melting plastic they also produce when burning and rockwool interior or otherwise that building would still probobly have gone up like a chip pan fire, just not as fast i suppose.

a reply to: andy06shake

probably have gone up like a chip pan fire

This conjured for me an image of a fire blanket and this raised further questions about this fire.

A fire blanket large enough to throw over the entire building and smother the fire out is probably a bit of a stretch but aerial fire-fighting equipment has been around for awhile now.

London Fire Brigade own x2 fire-fighting helicopters based at Hayes www.ukemergencyaviation.co.uk... Were they used? Were they even called out to attend? I saw no footage of the fire being tackled from above.

a reply to: teapot

The question begs however, how much water can our helicopters carry and would its have been sufficient to retard the spread of fire in the manner and speed that it travelled through that building?

My bet is that 100s of helicopter journeys would have been required to put any sort of dent or retard that fire which would have required time that the people in that building simply did not have.

a reply to: teapot

The page has been deleted? Strange. Was it available to you?

I heard that no helicopters were used due to them fanning the flames and making it worse.

a reply to: andy06shake

The building is made of reinforced concrete and is fireproof , what burns is the cladding, windows frames and
once gets inside the contents of each apartment

Once the cladding caught fire it then overwhelmed the fire resistant properties of the building

Fire firefighters call it AUTOEXPOSURE where fire advances from window to window, breaking the glass and getting
inside each apartment in turn to set it on fire

a reply to: daftpink

The direct link in my post does lead to page deleted but if you click on the menu item 'fire' at the top of the page, it will take you to a list of all fire services in the country that own/operate aerial equipment.

I can understand the concerns re 'fanning' the fire, perfectly logical really. And by the time these were scrambled and arrived at the scene, how effective would they have been re load capacity (as per andy06shake's post above yours)?

a reply to: firerescue

Yes i think it's rather evident to all as to what was burning.

Obviously the building is made of reinforced concrete, that's is the only reason its still standing, but that does not make the residents apartments fireproof just the structure really.

Fact of the matter is that it was an accident waiting to happen and one has to wonder given the nature and construction of similar buildings across the nation when its going to happen next really?

originally posted by: teapot
London Fire Brigade own x2 fire-fighting helicopters based at Hayes www.ukemergencyaviation.co.uk... Were they used? Were they even called out to attend? I saw no footage of the fire being tackled from above.

Not sure this is true. How much water (or other extinguisher) could you carry on a standard helicopter? You'd need at least something the size of Chinook for it to be worthwhile. And even the Chinook has a maximum take-off weight of just over 22 tons. When you consider the fact that a ton is officially defined as the weight of one cubic metre of water, you can see that's not going to get you very far.

As for helicopters generally, IDK whether London Fire Brigade has any "normal-sized" rescue helicopters. If it does, which I doubt, then the reason that they wouldn't have been used is that the updraft of heat alone from the burning building would have made hovering over Grenfell Tower practically suicidal for a helicopter pilot, and almost certainly pointless because no-one made it to the roof anyway.

It is now being reported that inspections have found hundreds of fire doors to be missing in Camden tower blocks.

Camden is run by Labour.

I am waiting for an outcry from senior Labour politicians (McDonnell, perhaps?) condemning this and raising allegations of attempted murder, etc.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
It is now being reported that inspections have found hundreds of fire doors to be missing in Camden tower blocks.

Camden is run by Labour.

I am waiting for an outcry from senior Labour politicians (McDonnell, perhaps?) condemning this and raising allegations of attempted murder, etc.

So I think its unfair to say that its up to individual politicians regardless of their political views to be personally inspecting these blocks to ensure they adhere to fire standards, that is why we have fire inspectors. It is my understanding that this was identified during they fire safety checks now going on all over the country around high rise tower blocks.

Now the local council is actually acting on this, the leader of the local council has her self been knocking on the doors of the people living in those flats to discuss the issue with them. You cannot ask for much more than that (link)

Again Labour have twice tried to introduce laws to protected residents in rented accommodation and twice the Tories have blocked it.

DP

The Tories have not blocked Camden Council from making sure existing fire regulations are complied with. Please do not try to blame the Tories for Camden's shortcomings.

So if a fire occurs in a Tory area its all evil Tories out, murderers etc but if Labour puts hundreds of tenants at risk of death from fire then that's nothing to be concerned about and if it is it's all the Tories fault.

Breathtaking double standards, there.

a reply to: oldcarpy

Labour puts hundreds of tenants at risk of death from fire then that's nothing to be concerned about and if it is it's all the Tories fault.

In the aftermath of the fire the government ordered a fire safety review of highrise tower blocks.

This review has found about 4 tower blocks in the Labour council borough of Camden that are a serious fire safety risk as such the Labour council is taking extreme measures to ensure the safety of these residents now that the risk has been identified. They have went so far to have the leader of the council knocking on the doors of residents to discuss this with them.

Dont really know what else you could ask for.

Now lets compare this to the conservative contorted council borough of Kensington and Chelsea who were told a number of times by the residents of Grenfel tower that the tower was a massive safety risk and the local council acted by doing nothing! Then to add salt to the wounds after the disaster they were nowhere to be seen.

So if we compare the two, Labour learn of a serious safety risk in some properties in their borough and act right away, Tories are told of a serious safety risk and do nothing resulting in a massive disaster that kills 80 people.

You tell me who done a better job.

Stop letting politics blind you.

There have been 76 cases in 23 different council areas that have failed fire safety tests, this is not a Labour vs Conservative problem, this is a problem of how the poor are being ignored in this country.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Letting politics blind me? Oh, the irony.

Fire doors in tower blocks are a basic requirement, this should not have come as news to Camden. They only learned that fire doors were needed after a serious incident like this and that is all perfectly OK.

What else could I ask for? How about not putting hundreds of people's lives at risk due to an obvious fire risk for years.

It seems to me that you blame the Tories for everything but Labour can do no wrong, ever. Your double standards remain clear to all and if anyone is letting politics blind them, it is you.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Not a Labour v Conservative thing? You could have fooled me judging by your many, many Tory bashing posts!