Tower block on fire in London

a reply to: justb0b

Not exactly

Is similar with metallic outer layer over a plastic inner insulation layer

Problem is in insulation layer . Dubai material used poly urethane aka solid napalm notorious for speed at which burns

Problem is that as material burn and fire travels up the side of building the fire can enter the interior by windows or
ventilation openings sparking fires on multiple floors

Guess we'll be seeing another Deconstruction like the Deutsche Bank.. this looks more dangerous, as they don't know how stable the building is yet. (The Deconstruction of Deutsche Bank was one of the buildings that was so damaged by the WTC towers falling, it had to be removed this way..

Here is what to expect.




So sad though.. possibly upwards of 70 probably dead. damn....

a reply to: violet

What pisses me off about this is how many were told to stay in their apartments. Those who left, survived.

Whomever told people to stay inside should be charged with murder.

a reply to: Pharyax

I was thinking they'll just do an implosion

a reply to: MysticPearl
Yes that was very bad advice. It's so sad that people stayed in and got trapped. Apparently the floor was getting too hot to even stand on. Just a horrific way to die. So many photos and videos of them in the windows waving " I'm here". Children too. I don't believe it's only 70. Where are the hundreds of survivors if so? Top three floors were all dead.

I've not been so angry and saddened over a tragedy as I have this one. So those victims must feel even more so.

a reply to: MysticPearl

I think the 'stay put' advice was written with the (fairly natural) assumption that any fire would start inside the building rather than outside it, in which case it's not as bizarre as it seems. Staying in your flat would normally prevent you getting trapped in a smoke-filled communal area. The flats' front doors were of the usual fire-retardant standard.

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: justb0b

Not exactly

Is similar with metallic outer layer over a plastic inner insulation layer

Problem is in insulation layer . Dubai material used poly urethane aka solid napalm notorious for speed at which burns

Problem is that as material burn and fire travels up the side of building the fire can enter the interior by windows or
ventilation openings sparking fires on multiple floors

I have a diagram of that from the manufacturer of this product with those warnings. I'll try to find it to upload. Need to take a screenshot first

ETA

Source

It's from Celotex, used on this Tower.
I posted earlier There were so many other companies working on this job, that they might have skipped putting the fire stops between floors. To stop any fire jumping through cavities from the rain screens

originally posted by: MysticPearl
a reply to: violet

What pisses me off about this is how many were told to stay in their apartments. Those who left, survived.

Whomever told people to stay inside should be charged with murder.

Im wondering about this too. I read on Gumshoe news that this occured on 911 as well. in fact some did leave but were ordered back.

Should not one of the learnings from 911 be that the practicwe of advising people to stay in their flat/stay indores in towers, be that this kind of advice be abandoned. I cant help but wonder if this advise of staying indoores is deliberately bad.

If this had been a tower in Mayfair, would all those seemingly sus materials have been used on it? Would all the residents have been advised on stay in a burning building?

originally posted by: audubon
a reply to: MysticPearl

I think the 'stay put' advice was written with the (fairly natural) assumption that any fire would start inside the building rather than outside it, in which case it's not as bizarre as it seems. Staying in your flat would normally prevent you getting trapped in a smoke-filled communal area. The flats' front doors were of the usual fire-retardant standard.

True except the fire did start inside

originally posted by: violet
True except the fire did start inside.

Yeah, poorly-worded on my part; you know what I'm getting at.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
Heartwrenching that 12 people died needlessly.

I can't even imagine the horror of waking up to something like this in the middle of the night. Half asleep in your pajamas, not knowing how bad the situation is all around you, how to get you and your family out as quickly as possible....

Ugh.

Heads are going to roll for this one, big time.

Sadly I disagree, I hope I am wrong.

I fear I can see the enquiry going for 18-months - 2 years and report being tabled in the Plariament 30 minutes before the breakup for the Christmas break 2018.

I fear that in 20 years time there will be an instant replay of this very sad day for so many people and familes.

originally posted by: audubon

originally posted by: violet
True except the fire did start inside.

Yeah, poorly-worded on my part; you know what I'm getting at.

I realised that after I posted. Sorry. I edited my post. I was just repeating what you'd already said. I didn't read it properly.

a reply to: violet

S'fine, no worries.

Apparently the remaining survivors are being shipped off to different areas and the land is to be sold to developers, which leads to what has been rumoured about cleansing the area for political gains(Less Labour Voters)

The fire or reasons for the severity of the blaze may not have been such an accident... Materials chosen, cost cuts etc etc. and all under Tory managed Council.

a reply to: Azureblue
I see it dragging on as well. Too many people involved all suing each other until they widdle it down to one scapegoat.

All 10 companies who worked on this cladding Link

Right now their main focus is the coverups and PR.

a reply to: MysticPearl

What pisses me off about this is how many were told to stay in their apartments. Those who left, survived.

Problem with a building this size is that stairways will soon get clogged up with people . FD will also be attempting to
use stairways to attack fire

Attempting to go down stairs means risk being suffocated by smoke if fire is below you

Normal practice for high raise fire is for people not on fire floor or floor directly above to stay put

Four people died in the superheated, smoke-filled stairwell of an Upper West Side high-rise yesterday as they tried to escape a fire that started in a 19th-floor apartment where the family of the actor Macaulay Culkin lived

News reports indicate only one stairway was open - other was blocked by repairs to gas mains. Elevators were
reportedly still in service during fire. Normally elevators are tied into fire alarm system - when alarm is tripped
elevators return to ground floor and can only be used by firemen with special key This is to prevent people
from being trapped if elevators or electric fails and to allow FD to use elevators to transport men.

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: 23432

I personally think that this was a delibrate arson to force May's [read:Queen] resignation.

Other than that you are correct .

500 dead is hard to forget, if true.

As I pointed out - ignorance does not a conspiracy make......

Death toll is not 500, final total , while horrific, will be several dozen

As for arson - looking like case of improperly installed insulation material, material not fire resistant and
installed leaving gaps which allowed fire to travel up side of building

Local council to save money used material not fire resistant - such material as banned in US and Germany for
high raise buildings, badly installed

As it most cases of mass fire deaths (Triangle Shirtwaist, Coconut Grove Night Club, Beverly Hills Supper Club, Etc)
cause is flammable materials allowed to accumulate with blocked/locked exits

I think it was a Pentagon operation designed to take the wind out of Ship Britannia .

Call me a conspiracy theorist .

I'm not sure if this counts as a cover-up but there have been at least two more tower-block fires since Grenfell went up (one fairly large and the other not large at all). They seem to be extraordinarily under-reported, and I'm guessing that it's because the media are anxious not to be seen as causing a panic.

a reply to: 23432

If that was the case i imagine it would have been done before the general election.

The only conspiracy here is that TPTB could not be arsed to shell out an additional £5000 for the appropriate cladding.

And it serves there purpose at the end of the day because now the monstrous death trap these poor and underprivileged people were forced to live in, and die in if truth be told, will inevitably be removed thus no longer be an eyesore or stain on the area.

End of the day this could have been prevented but it was not, and just down to the law of averages alone it was apt to happen sometime.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: 23432

If that was the case i imagine it would have been done before the general election.

The only conspiracy here is that TPTB could not be arsed to shell out an additional £5000 for the appropriate cladding.

And it serves there purpose at the end of the day because now the monstrous death trap these poor and underprivileged people were forced to live in, and die in if truth be told, will inevitably be removed thus no longer be an eyesore or stain on the area.

End of the day this could have been prevented but it was not, and just down to the law of averages alone it was apt to happen sometime.

I see what you are saying but there are too many spooky coincidences to my liking .