Tower block on fire in London

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: violet

If the cladding was legal then there is no case against the construction company that installed it.

There definitely seems to be a very serious case against both the management company and to a lesser extent the council (if councillor Atkinson's tale is true).

There is also a very serious need to reinvestigate the fire safety of that cladding. It may be completely fine for housing say but not for high rise. At the end of the day it was approved for sale here in the UK and that doesn't happen without rigorous testing first - so something has clearly gone wrong in that process too.

The cladding in itself might have been approved as fire retardant, but the theory going around is if it was improperly installed . Did they install the barriers between floors or if gaps were left that became chimneys fuelling the fire to shoot up as it did? Cavities are also left to allow rain to run down, again providing the chimney effect.

Underneath the cladding was concrete that was fluted and the gaps in the flutes were just left there and this cladding just wrapped around it. This was told by a witness living near the tower who saw the construction. So shoddy workmanship may be to blame.

I've read the cladding company is in hiding and they had not been paying their bills to creditors since 2009. This suggests a need to cut corners ( literally) to keep their cost for this job down.

Well we won't know more until a thorough investigation has taken place.

How this cladding ever got approved for use is a pertinent question, I think. Witnesses said it was burning off the building like paper.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
How this cladding ever got approved for use is a pertinent question, I think. Witnesses said it was burning off the building like paper.

Worse, if it's the same stuff that was used on that tower in Dubai, then the material is known to be a fire hazard.

The gentleman in the photo (circled) was rescued after 12 hours. He is in one of the few positions in the building where the normal advice of "stay in your apartment and wait for rescue" was valid, being below the fire line, albeit on the eleventh floor, windows still intact.

Heartwrenching that 12 people died needlessly.

I can't even imagine the horror of waking up to something like this in the middle of the night. Half asleep in your pajamas, not knowing how bad the situation is all around you, how to get you and your family out as quickly as possible....

Ugh.

Heads are going to roll for this one, big time.

I saw on a news ticker that it will take weeks to search the building and there could be a 100 bodies still inside?

I remember thinking that was crazy amount of time and bodies.

Did I misread?

About this cladding

The insulation material used in the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower "will burn if exposed to a fire of sufficient heat and intensity", according to its manufacturer.

Celotex confirmed that it supplied its RS5000 insulation for the £8.6 million renovation of the London tower block, where at least 12 people died and scores were injured.

It came after experts warned that the process of adding rain-proof cladding to tower blocks could create an additional fire risk.

....,.,..,


"So basically you have got a cavity with a fire spreading behind it."

RS5000, according to Celotex's website, has a Class 0 rating under UK building regulations, meaning it has the highest rating for preventing the spread of flames and prevents the spread of heat.

However, its "health and safety datasheet" notes: "The products will burn if exposed to a fire of sufficient heat and intensity.

"As with all organic materials, toxic gases will be released with combustion."

More info at the source

Source

I felt sick to the pit of my stomach watching this unfold, those poor people. Even worse that the residents association had been complaining for years about the poor fire safety in the building and this could have all been avoided. All day I have been hearing how they were ignored and could not get legal aid to get help. It seems millions was spent cladding the old building (against the wishes of many residents) to make it look more appealing for more affluent neighbours while the safety of the residents was ignored with an inadequate alarm and fire escape, poor evacuation plan, poor access for emergency services.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

I think it's more bodies than that.
400-600 lived there. I think less than 200 got out
The top 3 floors are all dead.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Smellthecoffee
Perhaps a Mohammedan was storing explosives, for his next terrorist attack, in his fridge?

Karma or God?

It seems even God is fed-up with Mohammedans.

The building had had a problem with power surges in recent years.

I've had a problem with Mohammedians in recent years.

a reply to: violet

I think it's more bodies than that. 400-600 lived there.
I think less than 200 got out
The top 3 floors are all dead.

I just checked the latest news, the death toll has risen to 17 now.

Are you saying that many of the people still haven't been accounted for yet ??


Jeezus this is horrendous.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: violet

I think it's more bodies than that. 400-600 lived there.
I think less than 200 got out
The top 3 floors are all dead.

I just checked the latest news, the death toll has risen to 17 now.

Are you saying that many of the people still haven't been accounted for yet ??


Jeezus this is horrendous.

Yes, I thought 17 was extremely fortunate but it seemed to defy what was happening.

Given the stay in place order and the speed, time of night and depth it burned through the 24 floors didn't jive.

I hope it's not true, tho.

www.celotex.co.uk...
Suppliers to the Tower Job ( ** not installers)
Discusses the fire spread risks

Just seen this.....i can understand that whilst the death toll is going to obviously rise, official numbers are going to take a while to come out....but if this has any truth to it then it doesn't bode well for families there....

Lilly Allen says off the record police and fire brigade say death toll is more like 150

I know it's musician Lilly Allen, but i can't see why she would make something like this up.

CX.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: violet

I think it's more bodies than that. 400-600 lived there.
I think less than 200 got out
The top 3 floors are all dead.

I just checked the latest news, the death toll has risen to 17 now.

Are you saying that many of the people still haven't been accounted for yet ??


Jeezus this is horrendous.

They can't get into the top floor flats to retrieve bodies . It's not safe and needs shoring up first before they can enter and top 3 floors are all said to be dead.

They'll be taking (cadaver?) dogs in there as well.

Their remains will be so badly degraded to even find.

Nobody wants to say it right now but it's likely hundreds dead.

Too many obeyed the stay put rule.
It's so heartbreaking.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
I saw on a news ticker that it will take weeks to search the building and there could be a 100 bodies still inside?

I remember thinking that was crazy amount of time and bodies.

Did I misread?

I've read in a couple places that they don't think anyone on the top 3 floors made it out at all. That's bad. Consider there are an average of 6 units per floor, 1, 2 and 3 bedroom.

originally posted by: violet

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: violet

I think it's more bodies than that. 400-600 lived there.
I think less than 200 got out
The top 3 floors are all dead.

I just checked the latest news, the death toll has risen to 17 now.

Are you saying that many of the people still haven't been accounted for yet ??


Jeezus this is horrendous.

They can't get into the top floor flats to retrieve bodies . It's not safe and needs shoring up first before they can enter and top 3 floors are all said to be dead.

They'll be taking (cadaver?) dogs in there as well.

Their remains will be so badly degraded to even find.

Nobody wants to say it right now but it's likely hundreds dead.

Too many obeyed the stay put rule.
It's so heartbreaking.

The upper floors were engulfed so quickly in flames and black smoke, I imagine most of those people were unable to even attempt escape by the time they woke up to the nightmare happening all around them.

I need to get these thoughts out of my head, it's just too much to handle.

My heart goes out to everyone effected by this horror.

I just don't know what else to say.

I am so sorry.

It hurts to think about all those trapped or lost.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
How this cladding ever got approved for use is a pertinent question, I think. Witnesses said it was burning off the building like paper.

There is footage of the cladding dripping like molten state.
Watch this vid from the 30 sec. mark

Apparently the cladding was banned in the United States, for tall buildings.

www.independent.co.uk...

Cladding believed to have been used on Grenfell Tower is banned in the US, it has emerged, amid revelations that it would have cost just £5,000 extra for the contractors to apply a fire-resistant version of panelling to the building.

Speculation is growing about the construction of the tower after a blaze ripped through it "like a matchstick" in the early hours of Wednesday morning, killing at least 17 people died and injuring scores more.

It has now emerged that the aluminium panels thought to have been added to the outside of the block as part of a £10 million refurbishment completed in May 2016 are banned in the US on buildings taller than 40 feet for fire safety reasons.

. . .

A salesman for the US company Reynobond, which produces the panels, told The Times the type of panel believed to have been used on Grenfell Tower was banned on tall buildings in the US “because of the fire and smoke spread”.

He said the PE version is used for small commercial buildings and petrol stations, rather than for tower blocks or major public buildings such as hospitals, adding: “It’s because of the fire and smoke spread. The FR [variant] is fire-resistant. The PE is just plastic."

edit on 15-6-2017 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)