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Some thoughts on the Trinity

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posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 04:26 PM
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a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

So you’re… “a different kind of normal”…right?




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
As a teen, I often pondered how this concept could work.Simple prayer and a yearning for answers, led to an interesting dream on evening.In the dream, I was acting in three places at once.I still remember it, the novelty of being conscious in multiple places and interacting in that landscape stuck with me.That dream inspired me to believe there really was something to the whole idea.


Sounds like your dream gave you some insights…but what was your dream really trying to show you…

And shouldn’t you be basing your Trinitarian belief on the Bible, rather than on dreams, which can mean numerous things, depending on how they are interpreted…



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
Raised Catholic, the ideas behind the Trinity make sense to me.




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
The concept of the Trinity is considered a mystery, ultimately revealed to one through God


You say the Trinity makes sense to you, and that the Trinity is considered a mystery…

Does this mean you understand the mystery…?

And if so…what is it…can you explain it…?


- JC




posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 08:33 PM
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Thank-you all for the input.I am not trying to grieve anyone with this thread, though I feel it's a worthy topic of discussion.Individuals come to their own understanding of the idea, I'm not looking to debate this, per se.

a reply to: BigBangWasAnEcho

That is an interesting picture you shared there.Your comments about the static anchor, bring to mind the more mechanical nature of entropy. Idk, I often think about the lack of creativity involved when it comes to copying or mimicking the divine.Everyone has their own lessons to learn, hopefully those who go down darker paths realize the disadvantage they face in the light of those who practice putting their heart, mind and body into everything that they do.For their sake, the sooner they see that the better.

a reply to: randyvs

The simplicity is it's wonder.A paradox of sorts.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Thank-you for the reminders.It's true and everything becomes revealed in it's time.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

You are entitled to your opinion, and I appreciate you chiming in.It's important to exam these ideas for ourselves, in order to clarify what they mean to us more personally.I don't feel the concept of the Trinity takes away from Jesus sacrifice on the cross.I think sabotage enters the picture when we use the concepts we hold dear as an excuse to stop loving each other the way the Jesus Christ shows us.Faith can be a double edged sword...



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 09:30 PM
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a reply to: Joecroft

Looking back, I had that dream when around the time I was to receive the sacrament of Confirmation. Idk, I honestly expected something was going to change in my life.This was a painful time for me, and my family life had me drowning in sorrow to say the least.I looked forward to feeling inspired spiritually on a deeper level.

My path took me away from the church then gradually, looking everywhere I could imagine for what was missing. Sometimes I wish my parents could share their spiritual perspective with me more in the past, it could have helped me make better decisions.It's all good though, I practice doing that with my children now.

Much later on, in my late 20's I found what I was looking for.I like to think my beliefs are based on the practicality of their application as tools in my life.In my perspective, there is support for the idea in the scriptures of the Bible and in those who practice other belief systems around the world.

As for the scriptures, I am reluctant to start doing the back and forth that usually takes place in this forum.I'll share my perspective and am grateful simply for that when it comes to this.

At this point, in my walk with the Lord this is where I'm at with this.I described what the Trinity means to me in heaven and on earth in my first post.The scriptures record various descriptions of God under different names and performing different functions, depending on who in the God head is being addressed.I look at the scriptures recording God as plural form of One acting in unison.

Biblical support for the Trinity is controversial at best.The scriptures record God the Father revealing himself in the Son, and through the work of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is active throughout the Old Testament, and the New..God reveals this through the work of the prophets, and the final revelation of Jesus Christ.At the end of John, he gave it and it also descended on many of the faithful during Pentecost, as Jesus had asked.

The Trinity is a mystery, because it's revealing comes from on high.The faithful can try to shed light on the topic, though it's not their decision if it makes sense to anyone else.Practicing loving God, and following loving each other as ourselves will reveal it.



posted on Jun, 16 2017 @ 11:59 PM
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a reply to: dffrntkndfnml



I don't feel the concept of the Trinity takes away from Jesus sacrifice on the cross.


The ransom was paid with the actual death of a perfect soul, do you think that soul was "God", no because God can't die.
Did he then make a clone human body and call him Jesus and that body died ?
But Jesus existed before that in spirit form.

The point is, Jesus existed before and after the ransom was paid, and only a perfect human soul could pay off what Adam had lost which was a perfect human soul, the Trinity doctrine in a very sneaky manner denies what is fundamental to our salvation, that is Jesus "died" for ours sins. Certainly not "God" , but his total life form; soul, spirit and flesh perished for a short time and then God resurrected him back to his original spirit form, he could then materialize and de-materialize human bodies at will just like the angels did in ancient bible times. He was no longer bound to physical flesh like he had been before his death. That single event, God resurrecting Jesus from actual death back to spirit life is simple proof that they are two separate entities. And to say otherwise denies the resurrection of Christ and by default the payment of the ransom, because then there was no actual real death to pay off the ransom for all to be saved.

So when his apostles and disciples see him they aren't looking at God, because nobody can do that and live, but they can look at Jesus. If they are looking at Jesus in spirit form, and he is ascending to his father in heaven, they just can't be the same. If I sit to the right hand side of my Dad I am not my Dad.
This is not mystery to me because I have studied all the founding doctrines and scriptures for decades.

It's simple Jesus was created, but is now immortal like his Father, he gained that reward for really dying and for saving humanity and essentially the world, he is number 2 in command of the entire universe. And if you read the book of revelation there is even a period of time where God steps back and let's Jesus run the entire universe for 1000 years, all part of the plan of him helping humanity back to it's perfect state and erasing the catastrophic damage Satan has caused.
edit on 17-6-2017 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2017 @ 12:18 AM
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DP
edit on 17-6-2017 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2017 @ 01:13 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Fair enough Blue_Jay33.I respect your opinion, even if I disagree about what you say about the Concept of the Trinity taking away from Jesus sacrifice on the cross or his resurrection. To me it's not worth risking having distance between us on this issue.

Peace
edit on 17-6-2017 by dffrntkndfnml because: Clarity: changed denying to taking away



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 05:07 AM
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originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
The concept of the Trinity is considered a mystery, ultimately revealed to one through God.
...
As a teen, I often pondered how this concept could work.Simple prayer and a yearning for answers, led to an interesting dream on evening.In the dream, I was acting in three places at once.I still remember it, the novelty of being conscious in multiple places and interacting in that landscape stuck with me.That dream inspired me to believe there really was something to the whole idea.


Jeremiah chapter 23:

1 “Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!” declares Jehovah.
...
11 “Both the prophet and the priest are polluted. Even in my own house I have found their wickedness,” declares Jehovah.
...
16 This is what Jehovah of armies says: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you.
They are deluding you.* [*: Or “They are filling you with empty hopes.”]
The vision they speak is from their own heart,
Not from the mouth of Jehovah.
...
25 “I have heard the prophets who are prophesying lies in my name say, ‘I had a dream! I had a dream!’ 26 How long will this continue in the heart of the prophets, to prophesy lies? They are prophets of the deceit of their own heart. 27 They intend to make my people forget my name by the dreams they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot my name because of Baʹal. 28 Let the prophet who has a dream relate the dream, but the one who has my word should speak my word truthfully.”

“What does the straw have in common with the grain?” declares Jehovah.

29 “Is not my word just like a fire,” declares Jehovah, “and like a forge hammer that smashes the crag?”

30 “So here I am against the prophets,” declares Jehovah, “who steal my words from one another.”

31 “Here I am against the prophets,” declares Jehovah, “those who use their tongue to say, ‘He declares!’”

32 “Here I am against the prophets of lying dreams,” declares Jehovah, “who relate them and lead my people astray because of their lies and their boasting.”

“But I did not send them or command them. So they will not benefit this people at all,” declares Jehovah.

33 “And when this people or a prophet or a priest asks you, ‘What is the burden* of Jehovah?’ you should reply to them, ‘“You people are the burden! And I will cast you off,” declares Jehovah.’


Psalm 83:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.

Ephesians 1:3a King James Version (KJV)

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,...

Matthew 6:9 (NW), Jesus speaking and teaching:

9 “You must pray, then, this way: “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.* [Or “be held sacred; be treated as holy.”]

Vatican Seeks to Eliminate Use of the Divine Name

context
edit on 19-6-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: dffrntkndfnml



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
Looking back, I had that dream when around the time I was to receive the sacrament of Confirmation. Idk, I honestly expected something was going to change in my life. This was a painful time for me, and my family life had me drowning in sorrow to say the least. I looked forward to feeling inspired spiritually on a deeper level.


Only by seeking for God with all your heart, mind and soul can one hope to receive the Holy Spirit…I don’t believe it can be received through a formulae, or through religious rituals…

John 14 pretty much describes the Holy Spirit in detail, but most people can’t see the real truth in those verses IMO…



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
My path took me away from the church then gradually, looking everywhere I could imagine for what was missing. Sometimes I wish my parents could share their spiritual perspective with me more in the past, it could have helped me make better decisions. It's all good though, I practice doing that with my children now.


Reading between the lines, it sounds like you’ve had a difficult time in the past. The story of the prodigal son comes to mind here. Sometimes we have to go through the lesson of following our own way, and then coming back to the light, so to speak. The lessons learned make us better people in the end…




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
At this point, in my walk with the Lord this is where I'm at with this.I described what the Trinity means to me in heaven and on earth in my first post. The scriptures record various descriptions of God under different names and performing different functions, depending on who in the God head is being addressed. I look at the scriptures recording God as plural form of One acting in unison.


When you stated the “Trinity means to me in heaven and on earth” what do you mean by this; bearing in mind Jesus said “Thy kingdom come, on Earth, as it is in Heaven” …?



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
Biblical support for the Trinity is controversial at best.


You can say that again lol


Here’s the thing though, if X is a mystery, then why believe in it…?…unless one understands what the mystery is…(which leads me onto my question further down)

Interestingly, one of the Christian Mormon denominations believes the nature of the Father, Son and Holy spirit is a mystery as well. But in their denomination it’s precisely because it’s a mystery, that they don’t accept any specific set defined interpretation of it…(i.e. a Trinitarian view or any other set defined view or interpretation)…which in some ways makes a lot more logical sense…IMO
So they leave it up to personal interpretation, rather than having it as a church doctrine or belief in X etc…
Where as with Trinitarians it’s the complete opposite; they believe in X, despite the fact that it’s a mystery…



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
The Trinity is a mystery, because it's revealing comes from on high. The faithful can try to shed light on the topic, though it's not their decision if it makes sense to anyone else. Practicing loving God, and following loving each other as ourselves will reveal it.


This is what I’m asking you though…if it’s a mystery and the mystery has to be revealed from on high i.e. from God…

Then that means you should know what the mystery is!, and should be able to explain it to others…

So what is the mystery part…can you explain it…?

- JC



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 04:41 PM
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Thank you for your interest JC.All the feedback is reassuring.


originally posted by: Joecroft
Reading between the lines, it sounds like you’ve had a difficult time in the past. The story of the prodigal son comes to mind here. Sometimes we have to go through the lesson of following our own way, and then coming back to the light, so to speak. The lessons learned make us better people in the end…

I realized years before my parents divorce, it was only a matter of time. Being unable to accept that, influenced my life in unexpected ways.

Thank goodness, for the patience and leadership of those who helped point me in the right direction.



originally posted by: Joecroft
When you stated the “Trinity means to me in heaven and on earth” what do you mean by this; bearing in mind Jesus said “Thy kingdom come, on Earth, as it is in Heaven” …?




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
The concept of the Trinity describes different aspects of God.God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

God the Father exists as an absolute good existing infinitely within and beyond time and space, manifesting throughout the universe everywhere, all the time.Like anything else, to describe it is to limit it.I can practice trying.(This could take a while,lol)

God the Son as an image of God on earth.Lord Jesus Christ is usually the first to come to mind.The Good News and his hopes for us to join him in love as sons and daughters of God has served to inspire mankind for generations.Learning to see the divine in others and treat them as ourselves are hallmarks of our spiritual heritage.

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of Good.The spirit or personality of God in the flesh.Usually the virtues of all kinds are associated with the intelligence of this spirit.Kindness, patience, honesty, faith, hope, and love, for example.The Holy Spirit is described in many ways, I feel it as a nurturing, maternal energy.

The spirit can appear in different forms, it's the qualities of expression that tend to define it.You can't judge a book by it's cover.

I feel on earth the parallels are there.Man's unlimited potential for good existing in our hearts.Our image, a reflection of the divine in the flesh.The spirit yearning towards our higher ideals.


I feel that's the best I can explain it. I took the idea on faith before, though there is a big difference between believing something in your mind and realizing it in your heart. In the latter part of my spiritual journey, it came to life that way.

It took along time to heal my relationship with my dad.Years later, after being pretty much disowned.I've touched on this in other threads, this was a part of what was holding back my spiritual aspirations.Once that changed, everything else did.I think this is to do with the way archetypes play out in our lives.

Oh this cell is dying, will edit after switching devices...

originally posted by: Joecroft
Here’s the thing though, if X is a mystery, then why believe in it…?…unless one understands what the mystery is…(which leads me onto my question further down)

Interestingly, one of the Christian Mormon denominations believes the nature of the Father, Son and Holy spirit is a mystery as well. But in their denomination it’s precisely because it’s a mystery, that they don’t accept any specific set defined interpretation of it…(i.e. a Trinitarian view or any other set defined view or interpretation)…which in some ways makes a lot more logical sense…IMO
So they leave it up to personal interpretation, rather than having it as a church doctrine or belief in X etc…
Where as with Trinitarians it’s the complete opposite; they believe in X, despite the fact that it’s a mystery…

Ultimately it is up to one's personal relationship with God, whether it makes sense.I don't see the harm in taking it on faith, awareness of the idea can help someone have a better understanding on the nature of the divine.The mystical body of Christ has many forms, and I feel that the intent of the various branches is to help each of us come together through Love.

Someone I look up to, once asked me "Do you think you can reinvent the wheel?" Upon reflection, I understood that there are good reasons that belief systems are structured a certain way.Understanding why isn't always necessary to enrich our lives. Imo, all religions have their virtues and their mysteries.

originally posted by: Joecroft
This is what I’m asking you though…if it’s a mystery and the mystery has to be revealed from on high i.e. from God…

Then that means you should know what the mystery is!, and should be able to explain it to others…

So what is the mystery part…can you explain it…?

- JC

Hopefully, the part of my original post I shared again helps.

Eh, before I forget a different kind of normal would be, when my friends call me Bipolar Bear.

For me my ATS handle was kind of random when I made it.A human being is a different kind of animal.

edit on 19-6-2017 by dffrntkndfnml because: switched devices

edit on 19-6-2017 by dffrntkndfnml because: added part about Dad



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 10:50 AM
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a reply to: dffrntkndfnml


The concept of the Trinity describes different aspects of God.God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

As Jesus was preparing to be restored to His former place as the celestial Son of The Most High El, He revealed to His Apostles that another representative of God would then take His place on this earth forever. Now forever in this case means till the end of this creation, of course.

The Muslims claim that this replacement [comforter] was Muhammad but the apostle John declares that it is not Muhammad but is that celestial Spirit that is God.

John_14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

By this we believe our scriptures have told us that the prophet Joel told us this very thing when he declared ---

Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Joel’s prophecy was fulfilled soon after Jesus was put to death ---------

Acts 2:1-4
(1) And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
(2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
(3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
(4)And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

There are some who say that this was only for the Jews but Joel tells us it is for the entire human race who will accept this gift. Joel is correct as we are told in the scriptures that all men are born into one Spirit and the gentiles grafted onto the vine.
What is the purpose of this outpouring of the Spirit of God?

1Corinthians 12:1-13
(1) Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
(2)Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
(3) Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
(4) Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
(5) And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
(6) And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
(7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
(8) For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
(9) To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
(10) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
(11) But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
(12) 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
(13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

You can now understand that that the Holy Spirit was given to the entire human race to build the church and keep it as Jesus would want. Does that mean the Father and Son are diminished? Not in the least does it even apply to that idea. This is the Triune God Head. This is the Christian Trinity which are the tools that Jesus gave the church as a means to control evil. There is but one Holy Spirit with many weapons to guard the congregations of Christ Jesus. The Trinity is Spirit and not an entity as most are misled.



posted on Jun, 21 2017 @ 07:05 PM
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a reply to: dffrntkndfnml



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
I realized years before my parents divorce, it was only a matter of time. Being unable to accept that, influenced my life in unexpected ways.

Thank goodness, for the patience and leadership of those who helped point me in the right direction.


Overcoming any trials in our lives that are emotionally difficult to deal with, always requires some strength on our own part too. I mean you still had to try and follow the advice of others, and try to move forward with your life…those are things to be proud of…IMO




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
God the Son as an image of God on earth.Lord Jesus Christ is usually the first to come to mind.


Usually…???


Trinitarians believe that Jesus is The (exclusive) Son of God…and that he is the second personage of the Godhead…so what do you mean by “…is usually the first to come to mind.”… you mean always right…?…or am I missing something…




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
I feel that's the best I can explain it. I took the idea on faith before, though there is a big difference between believing something in your mind and realizing it in your heart. In the latter part of my spiritual journey, it came to life that way.


That’s just what I’m trying to get at though…when you take something on faith, then you can’t possibly know what the mystery is…because if you knew for certain and could explain the mystery there would be no need for faith…because you would simply know that it’s true and more importantly why it’s true i.e. why you believe it to be true…which is a lot different than just defining or outlining what you think/believe the Trinity is etc…

Also the heart is a tricky thing…and if one realizes a truth in their heart, then it should be transferable to the mind as well…




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
It took along time to heal my relationship with my dad.Years later, after being pretty much disowned. I've touched on this in other threads, this was a part of what was holding back my spiritual aspirations.Once that changed, everything else did.I think this is to do with the way archetypes play out in our lives.


I haven’t read your other thread posts, so I don’ know your full story.

There comes a point when I think we/us/them just have to let go of whatever is holding us back. Which can be many things, and even things which we can’t see ourselves sometimes, until we begin to look a little deeper.



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
Ultimately it is up to one's personal relationship with God, whether it makes sense.I don't see the harm in taking it on faith, awareness of the idea can help someone have a better understanding on the nature of the divine.The mystical body of Christ has many forms, and I feel that the intent of the various branches is to help each of us come together through Love.



What I was trying to point out in my last post, is that one belief understands it’s a mystery and therefore doesn’t ask anyone to believe X (The Trinity or any other specific view) is true, and therefore leaves it open to interpretation etc…where as the other belief states X (the Trinity) is true, and that’s how it has to be believed in by others…even though the whole thing is very mysterious and no one has ever clearly explained it…or why they believe it’s true etc…


For example, take a really complicated and deep unexplained riddle that is really unclear as to what it actually means…

One group states it’s complicated/unclear/mysterious, so therefore they decide to leave it open to interpretation…which makes perfect reasonable sense…

While another group states it means THIS!!!…even though they have no way of explaining the mystery and why that particular view is the correct one…But yet they’re telling everyone else, that that’s how it HAS to be believed in…


Can you see my point…?




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
Someone I look up to, once asked me "Do you think you can reinvent the wheel?" Upon reflection, I understood that there are good reasons that belief systems are structured a certain way.Understanding why isn't always necessary to enrich our lives. Imo, all religions have their virtues and their mysteries.


But when most people use that analogy about “reinventing the wheel"…the wheel usually represents that which is universally true…

In general, it’s a given that the wheel is true in that type of analogy…and the wheel is being used to represent the Trinity in that example…or at least I think it is, which would make sense considering the context of our discussion so far…




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
Upon reflection, I understood that there are good reasons that belief systems are structured a certain way.Understanding why isn't always necessary to enrich our lives.


You said “Understanding why isn't always necessary to enrich our lives.” So why did you even try to reflect and understand the “good reasons” as to why belief systems are structured a certain way…?




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
Eh, before I forget a different kind of normal would be, when my friends call me Bipolar Bear.



“A different kind of normal”, sounded like a really cool handle name IMO…


Nick names have a habit of going through various transformations…so in the future your friends might just call you Yogi instead…


- JC



edit on 21-6-2017 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2017 @ 08:35 PM
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Eh Joecroft,

I have perceived the presence of the Saints, and other divine spirits before.Typically, those who share Christ consciousness are depicted artistically as having flaming hearts.I have walked different paths, and explored other belief systems.

I'll keep your point about the folly of trying to define mystery to others in mind.Some helpful reminders have been brought up in this thread.

That discussion about the wheel, was one where I was trying to figure out a better way to bring together the Monotheistic faiths.The point of the conversation is that everything has already been done, and the reason I doubted it, was from within, not without.The effect of this was for me to take a closer look at that, and then everything would become more obvious.It has.

Lol, about Yogi.I'm not worthy.



edit on 21-6-2017 by dffrntkndfnml because: misc



posted on Jul, 3 2017 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Sorry for the delay…



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
I have perceived the presence of the Saints, and other divine spirits before. Typically, those who share Christ consciousness are depicted artistically as having flaming hearts. I have walked different paths, and explored other belief systems.


So what do you believe in now…?…the Trinity lol ….




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
I'll keep your point about the folly of trying to define mystery to others in mind. Some helpful reminders have been brought up in this thread.


I think you’re missing my objective points here…You are only explaining what the Trinity IS; as it’s defined etc…

You need to be explaining why you believe it’s true…And I’ll say it one last time…If you know the mystery behind it, then you should be able to explain and articulate that to others…outside of what you have already written in your OP….



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
That discussion about the wheel, was one where I was trying to figure out a better way to bring together the Monotheistic faiths. The point of the conversation is that everything has already been done, and the reason I doubted it, was from within, not without. The effect of this was for me to take a closer look at that, and then everything would become more obvious. It has.


And how did you bring together the Monotheistic faiths…?


- JC



posted on Jul, 3 2017 @ 07:40 PM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
Sorry for the delay…

It's alright, no obligation.Man cannot live on the internet alone.



I think you’re missing my objective points here…You are only explaining what the Trinity IS; as it’s defined etc…

You need to be explaining why you believe it’s true…And I’ll say it one last time…If you know the mystery behind it, then you should be able to explain and articulate that to others…outside of what you have already written in your OP….

The idea of the Trinity makes sense to me.I don't if I can put it better then I have already.Offline, others seems to understand the perspective.I'm not sure in what context or on what level you want me to elaborate in?I can try and describe it in other ways, though this thread has left me with the impression that I may be better off walking away slowly, lol.

Seriously though, I can try.


And how did you bring together the Monotheistic faiths…?

For me, I think the turning point was realizing that the Abrahamic faiths honour the Father.The images individuals hold may be different, though I have found greater harmony with others by focusing on the Creator.Beforehand, I sometimes felt like the differences were a big gap to bridge.Mind you this was years ago, since then I much more confident when it comes to the way I feel expressing myself existentially.

edit on 3-7-2017 by dffrntkndfnml because: misc



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: dffrntkndfnml



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
It's alright, no obligation.


Tell me about it, I’m late again…gota lota stuff going on I need to take care of…

This will be my last ATS post for quite some time…so no need to rush a response…lol

But I shall return…just not sure when I’ll be back…




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
Man cannot live on the internet alone.


Reminds me of this…

“Man does not live by Bread alone, but from every Word that comes from the mouth of God”




Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
The idea of the Trinity makes sense to me.I don't if I can put it better then I have already.Offline, others seems to understand the perspective.I'm not sure in what context or on what level you want me to elaborate in?I can try and describe it in other ways, though this thread has left me with the impression that I may be better off walking away slowly, lol.



lol

Yeah, you haven't exactly been getting much feedback on your thread…maybe they’re afraid…not of you lol…but the Trinity I mean….


Btw – you’re putting it across great
, but only in terms of stating what the Trinity is. You need to outline the mystery and then fully explain it…if you can lol


I understand the concept of the Trinity and how it’s defined…but questions like…why do people believe in it…? how do they know its true…?…and what is the mystery behind it etc etc…are what needs answering…


And just a reminder from one of your other posts below…



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
The Trinity is a mystery, because it's revealing comes from on high.


If the mystery is revealed by God as you suggested above, then you (assuming it’s been revealed to you) should be able to explain the mystery…which goes beyond just outlining, that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one…

If one knows the mystery behind it, then they have to go beyond just defining and outlining what the Trinity is…although of course the two go hand in hand, to some degree…



Originally posted by dffrntkndfnml
For me, I think the turning point was realizing that the Abrahamic faiths honour the Father.The images individuals hold may be different, though I have found greater harmony with others by focusing on the Creator.Beforehand, I sometimes felt like the differences were a big gap to bridge.Mind you this was years ago, since then I much more confident when it comes to the way I feel expressing myself existentially.


If you were seeking to bridge the gap…it means you have a good heart IMO…”blessed be the peace makers” springs to mind…

Most people just look for the differences, instead of seeing the connections between the Abrahamic faiths…or they get stuck in their own religious dogmatic beliefs…


And also this is just my opinion, but one doesn’t need a religion to Honour the Father…


Peace be with you…


- JC



edit on 13-7-2017 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2017 @ 03:40 AM
link   

originally posted by: Joecroft

I understand the concept of the Trinity and how it’s defined…but questions like…why do people believe in it…? how do they know its true…?…and what is the mystery behind it etc etc…are what needs answering…

How about these questions...

Should You Believe in the Trinity?

How did the Trinity become an official doctrine? More important, is this teaching in harmony with the Bible?
...
According to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, the creed attributed to the Council of Nicaea set out the first official definition of ‘Christian orthodoxy,’ including the definition of God and Christ. Why, though, was it deemed necessary to define God and Christ centuries after the Bible was completed? Is the Bible unclear on these important topics?
...
Jesus said that “the true worshipers will worship the Father with . . . truth.” (John 4:23) That truth has been recorded in the Bible. (John 17:17) Does the Bible teach that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons in one God?
...

Is Jesus God?

...Cardinal John O’Connor stated about the Trinity: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don’t begin to understand.” Why is the Trinity so difficult to understand?

The Illustrated Bible Dictionary gives one reason. Speaking of the Trinity, this publication admits: “It is not a biblical doctrine in the sense that any formulation of it can be found in the Bible.” Because the Trinity is “not a biblical doctrine,” Trinitarians have been desperately looking for Bible texts—even twisting them—to find support for their teaching.
...

Complete article (audio):
"and the Word was a god"

2 Peter 3:16

16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant* and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

*: Or “untaught.”
edit on 14-7-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2017 @ 01:03 AM
link   
a reply to: Joecroft


Tell me about it, I’m late again…gota lota stuff going on I need to take care of…

This will be my last ATS post for quite some time…so no need to rush a response…lol

But I shall return…just not sure when I’ll be back…


Time off can be good, I find my own interests tend to cycle through different spheres both online and off.Looking forward to your return down the road.


Reminds me of this…

“Man does not live by Bread alone, but from every Word that comes from the mouth of God”

You catch my humour.



lol

Yeah, you haven't exactly been getting much feedback on your thread…maybe they’re afraid…not of you lol…but the Trinity I mean….

Btw – you’re putting it across great
, but only in terms of stating what the Trinity is. You need to outline the mystery and then fully explain it…if you can lol


I feel good about the feedback in the thread so far.I didn't have a lot of expectations, primarily just to express myself.The concept of the Trinity appears to be more controversial then I thought.

This brings to mind what DISRAELI mentioned about Incarnation.I hadn't taken that into consideration consciously much before.I have had conversations with other seekers who have shared to me their impression of God as a Spirit on occasion. Often in these more informal conversations, I just enjoy listening to them share their perspective.In love, others often have valuable insights to share.It would be nice to see them again...


I understand the concept of the Trinity and how it’s defined…but questions like…why do people believe in it…? how do they know its true…?…and what is the mystery behind it etc etc…are what needs answering…

If the mystery is revealed by God as you suggested above, then you (assuming it’s been revealed to you) should be able to explain the mystery…which goes beyond just outlining, that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one…

If one knows the mystery behind it, then they have to go beyond just defining and outlining what the Trinity is…although of course the two go hand in hand, to some degree…

I am grateful for your patience helping me better understand the point you were trying to make with your earlier posts.

Indeed, that would probably make for a better thread. A part of me gets the impression that entertaining these thoughts may be casting judgement unnecessarily on others. The nature of the discussing this online makes it easier to shy away from sharing more intimate experiences that have led to my understanding in this area.Being kind of fiery, I feel more comfortable opening up when I am able to access the wider range of feedback in person.It's easier to practice being more responsible that way.On second thought, this would be a good avenue for some creative writing.



If you were seeking to bridge the gap…it means you have a good heart IMO…”blessed be the peace makers” springs to mind…

Most people just look for the differences, instead of seeing the connections between the Abrahamic faiths…or they get stuck in their own religious dogmatic beliefs…

Thank you JC. Imo, belief systems are ideally a tool for self realization.


And also this is just my opinion, but one doesn’t need a religion to Honour the Father…

This brings to mind some of the good people who have touched my life claiming no means of invisible support. Lol, their novelty was such, that I sometimes wondered if I was being trolled.


Peace and Blessings



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