The Meaning of Life and The Key To Happiness According to Science.

**Disclaimer** not like all of science, just this one guy, but you can see how it just applies to everything.


Ok , so while listening to Joe Rogan's Podcast his guest was an author and researcher who I think kinda has the meaning of life and the key to happiness..

First off just to set the scene, he said that genetically we have not yet fully adapted to agriculture, let alone the computer age. We are designed to live in small nomadic family groups of 30-40. Not major metropolitan cities..

He thinks it is when a few key "hunter-gatherer" things that we are programmed to "need" are missing, that decides happiness or depression.


In a hunter gatherer society every one is needed, valued and all are working together to achieve a common goal. While in a hostile situation under the threat of death or bodily harm...and since we are designed to live in those situations, we go a little crazy when we are not.

So in a nut shell. The meaning of life is to put yourself in a dedicated group , all valued and working together and you need a sense of danger that solidifies the group.

Replicate that and you'll be happy.. don't that's when societies develop depression and begin having suicides..

And it makes total sense..

Look at what that applies to.. army buddies, people forced to survive in crazy situations, cancer survivors, sports teams, gangs, police units, church's...


All recreate that primal lifestyle where it is "us against them" and we have to pull together to survive.. all have a pretty big portion of people who long for those times again.. even when horrible.

What if that is really all it takes to be happy?? That hand full of things... and while searching for them we get sucked into ridiculous things trying to replicate them???

How many political factions, cults and street gangs do exactly that??

Make the person feel valued, let them contribute and get to know a couple dozen people personally and create a bad guy to fight against??

Couldn't we replicate that with social clubs and hunting trips?? Sports teams and extreme sports retreats??

To me, not only does that make sense, but I think it's is sorta easy to replicate!!

Thoughts??

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I agree and applaud your OP. My wife daughter and I homestead for just this reason...we actually draw people in by virtue of shared innate appreciation for a " wild" lifestyle.

I have much more to add but im intrigued by the responses others have before I show all of our cards.

Great thread...

From Robert Heinlein.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck.”

Man kinds natural state is a struggle to survive.

I often ponder how vast of a change our species has endured in such a short amount of time. Consequently, we arent living the way we should/are used to (evolutionarily speaking).

Technology, booming metropolises are great, in theory. However i find myself questioning if we have come too far, too fast.

I know the lives we are forced to live most surely feel wrong to me.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

There is, for most of us, a need to be with others in a social group. I'm not entirely sure how much "happiness" that actually generates, but yes I agree that meaningful contribution and positive value are very important to a persons mental state and overall well being.

On a similar note, positive social inclusion & interaction has been demonstrated to decrease drug addiction.

This topic seems to be popping up a lot lately.

"The biggest disease today is not leprosy or cancer or tuberculosis, but rather the feeling of being unwanted, uncared for and deserted by everybody."
- mother teresa

www.forbes.com...

www.psychologytoday.com...

a reply to: Bluntone22

I don't think poverty is the disease , I think it is a symptom, per say..

You wouldn't need the poverty to create the hardship or struggle. Poverty just inherently comes with struggle.. a rich kid in a fox hole is still gonna have the same effect.. it is just that wealth means you have to choose to put yourself in danger.

a reply to: seaswine

See I kinda think we can have both...

We just need to recreate the "platoon dynamic" in other ways.

originally posted by: myselfaswell
a reply to: JoshuaCox

There is, for most of us, a need to be with others in a social group. I'm not entirely sure how much "happiness" that actually generates, but yes I agree that meaningful contribution and positive value are very important to a persons mental state and overall well being.

On a similar note, positive social inclusion & interaction has been demonstrated to decrease drug addiction.

But your forgetting what I think is the most important part.. a threat to the group that solidifies it..

I don't think the others do it solo.

Same with the threat, without the group.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I see. Marriage fits the primary bill for that need. Not to mention that it ties directly into our other needs.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I find playing games of chance with group of friends is very meaningful.

There is no question in the matrix you defined one would feel connected. Happiness is another thing. Many people living in tribal situations do not always experience happiness based on the pecking order. Take a look at this:

Maslow's hierarchy of needs

In terms of finding meaning in one's life I've felt Joseph Campbell's "follow your bliss" is interesting take on it. Here's a very good video on the "hero's adventure" and how it gives our lives meaning:



The problem with the world is there are a lot of psychopaths who are sadists with sophisticated tastes that go beyond simply belonging. Tobin in the movie Saboteur is good example:

You're one of the ardent believers - a good American. Oh, there are millions like you. People who play along, without asking questions. I hate to use the word stupid, but it seems to be the only one that applies. The great masses, the moron millions. Well, there are a few of us unwilling to troop along... a few of us who are clever enough to see that there's much more to be done than just live small complacent lives, a few of us in America who desire a more profitable type of government. When you think about it, Mr. Kane, the competence of totalitarian nations is much higher than ours. They get things done.

People like Tobin are not satisfied with "small complacent lives".

Another interesting archetype to take into account is the Joker the movie Batman. There are some people who just want to see the world burn:

Alfred: With respect, Master Wayne, perhaps this is a man that you don’t fully understand, either. A long time ago, I was in Burma. My friends and I were working for the local government. They were trying to buy the loyalty of tribal leaders by bribing them with precious stones. But their caravans were being raided in a forest north of Rangoon by a bandit. So we went looking for the stones. But in six months, we never met anyone who traded with him. One day, I saw a child playing with a ruby the size of a tangerine. The bandit had been throwing them away.

Bruce: So why steal them?

Alfred: Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren’t looking for anything logical, like money. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

People don't listen to science. And there are just evil people in the world who want to watch other people suffer.

a reply to: dfnj2015

It is ironic you responded with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. For it is the aspect of self-actualization I have always felt was everyone's secret to happiness. However, what I have observed over the years is many people think they are self-actualizing when they are only being an egotist.

a reply to: Outlier13

I agree. I think Maslow stuff has its place but it's not complete. That's why I added the Joseph Campbell stuff.

I also wanted to take into account people who derive happiness from being evil. There seems to be a lot of suffering in the world which deters from most people's happiness.

a reply to: dfnj2015

But are they really happy???

Or is it more like an orgasm.. an impulse not really connected to depression or happiness.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: dfnj2015

But are they really happy???

Or is it more like an orgasm.. an impulse not really connected to depression or happiness.

That's a good point. But the Joker seemed pretty happy. I do get your point.

The movie Saboteur is amazing. It's definitely worth watching. The Tobin character is profound:

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: seaswine

See I kinda think we can have both...

We just need to recreate the "platoon dynamic" in other ways.

As we use to say out in the field...."Embrace the Suck"

www.careershifters.org...

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Are you talking about Jordan Peterson? I have been digging deeply into his material lately. I am astounded at his insight.

I do notice that some people have the need to fulfill primitive inclinations. Like I think the desire people have to fish and hunt come from that primitive mindset. Bringing home the big catch for the family.. what joy!

originally posted by: Bluntone22
From Robert Heinlein.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck.”

Man kinds natural state is a struggle to survive.

Wow, sounds like extreme elitist arrogance.

I think that whomever said that is a little nuts. We are a long way from the hunter gatherer lifestyle, we have socially evolved many times since then. We do like to roam in packs, but then we have continued to do that all along. We have more of the animal husbandry traits left, caring for animals is still in our genes.

Science basically knows crap about this, they make things up and stick a name of someone prestigious to back things up or use evidence so misapplied that it is laughable. Many things they have right, but many things they have wrong. In this case the whole assumption of hunter gatherer is wrong. We do have in some of us the need to teach some survival tactics to our young. That is not a hunter gatherer trait though, it is a survival instinct.