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Science for Religion A - proof of God Creation .

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posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut
One example is that my first house was threatened by fire from an adjacent house and the water main pressure was insufficient to hose down the house. My wife & I prayed that we wouldn't loose the house and rain immediately began not to just fall, but to deluge down, putting out the fire next door. As soon as the deluge stopped, which it did as suddenly as it started, the fire engine arrived and the firemen were all looking up into the sky, which was cloudless and starry, saying "where did that come from?".


That's called confirmation bias. You don't know that the prayer is what caused that. It is assumed because the outcome was favorable. I've seen countless times where weather suddenly starts then stops. In some areas it's pretty common. What about all the times when prayer doesn't do anything and the outcome is not favorable? Do you consider that or do you only remember the times you THINK it worked rather than the times it didn't? If you prayed and your house caught on fire anyway, would you be using it as an example that prayer doesn't work? I'm not so sure of that.


edit on 6 20 17 by Barcs because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: chr0naut
One example is that my first house was threatened by fire from an adjacent house and the water main pressure was insufficient to hose down the house. My wife & I prayed that we wouldn't loose the house and rain immediately began not to just fall, but to deluge down, putting out the fire next door. As soon as the deluge stopped, which it did as suddenly as it started, the fire engine arrived and the firemen were all looking up into the sky, which was cloudless and starry, saying "where did that come from?".


That's called confirmation bias. You don't know that the prayer is what caused that. It is assumed because the outcome was favorable. I've seen countless times where weather suddenly starts then stops. In some areas it's pretty common. What about all the times when prayer doesn't do anything? Do you consider that or do you only remember the times you THINK it worked rather than the times it didn't?



Yes, rain always falls in deluges from cloudless skies putting fires out, starting immediately after a prayer and stopping immediately as soon as the fire is damped down?

There were also none of the usual atmospheric changes one expects with extreme weather. No wind or lightning.

I even considered that perhaps a cometary fragment had entered the atmosphere and melted to rain on the fire (but there were no particulates). It was not normal rain, it was like a tank load of water had been dropped.

There were multiple witnesses, some who were unaware that prayer was involved, the event and the prayers had a specific time frame and there was, after the fact, objective evidence that it had occurred.

But it could have been confirmation bias. As could most observations of non-repeatable events. At some point you have to try and evaluate; if your theories about an event sequence, or a confirmation bias clouding your judgement, are the the most probable.

edit on 20/6/2017 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 04:20 PM
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nothing in this thread is proof of divine agency. more specifically, we will not convince anyone here that their alleged evidence does not constitute proof. this is a fools errand for those who dont have the humility and pragmatism to admit that they are unable to change someones mind against their will. i dont have the power to do that and there is no shame in it.

for the record...were you praying to thor for that rain shower? and if not, did you thank him anyway? because if you didnt, thats really not cool. it could also have been horus, chaac, indra, jupiter, or ran. any deity of rain or weather really. might want to thank them all just to be safe. keep in mind that just because you dont pray to them doesnt mean they are not listening.

edit on 20-6-2017 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut

So all the people that die in house fires each year didn't pray hard enough?



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:37 PM
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originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: chr0naut

So all the people that die in house fires each year didn't pray hard enough?


Or probably not at all.

It is also statistically likely that they didn't have adequate smoke alarms, too. Some may have even been smoking in bed. Many may be totally innocent, simply caught up in the consequence of someone else's irresponsibility or culpability.

In my case, nobody was injured and fire investigators believe it was arson by the owners who had been unable to get a tenant for some time and had torched the house to claim the insurance. As I understand it, the evidence of arson was clear cut, the arsonist identified and the insurance company didn't pay.

I am just thankful that our house was spared.

edit on 20/6/2017 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 10:06 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut
Yes, rain always falls in deluges from cloudless skies putting fires out, starting immediately after a prayer and stopping immediately as soon as the fire is damped down?

There were also none of the usual atmospheric changes one expects with extreme weather. No wind or lightning.


Yes it happens. I've seen it before. If you live near a large lake you know how fast weather patterns can change. What state / country did you live in back then? Again you are assuming the prayer and the rain are connected with no way to verify it.


I even considered that perhaps a cometary fragment had entered the atmosphere and melted to rain on the fire (but there were no particulates). It was not normal rain, it was like a tank load of water had been dropped.


Something like that is not out of the the question. Airplanes occasionally drop things. Are you saying that it was raining while there were no clouds in the sky or just that it changed fast from sunny to rainy?


There were multiple witnesses, some who were unaware that prayer was involved, the event and the prayers had a specific time frame and there was, after the fact, objective evidence that it had occurred.


I feel this is a bit disingenuous. Yes, objective evidence showed that it rained and put out a fire, not that your prayer caused the rain. Big difference.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 11:41 PM
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originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: chr0naut
Yes, rain always falls in deluges from cloudless skies putting fires out, starting immediately after a prayer and stopping immediately as soon as the fire is damped down?

There were also none of the usual atmospheric changes one expects with extreme weather. No wind or lightning.


Yes it happens. I've seen it before. If you live near a large lake you know how fast weather patterns can change. What state / country did you live in back then? Again you are assuming the prayer and the rain are connected with no way to verify it.


Granville, Sydney, NSW, Australia, in April. I think there was a large moon because I recall there was plenty of natural light. The timer (we think) that started the fire went off at midnight.

I wasn't particularly looking skywards until after the rain but, as an astronomer, I am a tad familiar with the night sky. I did make note of how good the 'seeing' was after everything had calmed down.


Something like that is not out of the the question. Airplanes occasionally drop things.


Granville's not particularly on a flight path and away from the airport. There was also, I estimate, significantly more water than a plane could carry.


Are you saying that it was raining while there were no clouds in the sky or just that it changed fast from sunny to rainy?


I'm pretty sure it was close to a full moon because afterwards the sky was obviously cloudless, horizon to horizon. If there had been cloud, it would have been lit by the moon and, as I said it was good seeing, no haziness, fog or cloud.


I feel this is a bit disingenuous. Yes, objective evidence showed that it rained and put out a fire, not that your prayer caused the rain. Big difference.


You may have your doubts, fair enough, but I was there and don't.




posted on Jun, 21 2017 @ 08:07 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut

There is nothing to doubt, as there is no solid connection in the first place, just a presumptive claim based on assumption. You being there, doesn't change the fact that it's confirmation bias and cherry picking to assume that prayer caused the rain. You, yourself, don't even know that. But yeah, I'm sure god is out there making sure people who pray at the right time will not lose their property, but lets thousands of children die from cancer every year despite thousands praying for them. You can't logically only consider the times you believe it worked, while ignoring every time it had no effect. There is no logic involved in that. It is pure cherry picking.
edit on 6 21 17 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



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