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Leftist Preacher uses religion to justify gun control

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posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 05:25 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: TarzanBeta

If you read that passage in context of what is happening in that story, that isn't what he's saying to his followers. It's made even more clear that he isn't saying "People should always be armed" by the fact that when his followers say, "Jesus, here are two swords." He responds with, "That is enough."

Two swords aren't gonna do any good when going to face an army. There are a couple of way people interpret what is happening in that passage and it's not "To be armed at all times."

Nor is it one of his teachings. It's meant for that one instance before they go and get arrested.

You can't just pull a single line from the story as if it's some universal teaching.


Ahem.Turning the other cheek is for verbal and non life threatening assaults.

Two swords hmmm. HE was not talking to a army in that passage was he?

Its perfectly fine to use a weapon to protect a innocent as well as yourself. As long as it is not a murder by being planned out in advance by person wielding the weapon and done in cold blood.




posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 05:31 PM
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I went and look for information on this man and found this article:
Rev. Gary Hall
So it appears that he's pretty progressive. Not too far left just good in general.

But why associate gun control with the left? Many on the left are for gun right. Even some Democrats are for it.
As a liberal I fully support 2nd Amendment 100% (that means no unreasonable control).


edit on 6/10/2017 by Deaf Alien because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 05:35 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
I went and look for information on this man and found this article:
Rev. Gary Hall
So it appears that he's pretty progressive. Not too far left just good in general.

But why associate gun control with the left? Many on the left are for gun right. Even some Democrats are for it.
As a liberal I fully support 2nd Amendment 100% (that means no unreasonable control).



we already have reasonable control but the criminals are ignoring them because they can get tossed in jail for life instead of being hung immediatly after the trial. Start punishing them liek that instead of letting them live forever in jail and youll see the crime rate drop.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

You're missing the point entirely.

First of all, he was talking to his disciples at the time. They were about to go fulfill prophesy and basically get arrested. The part about the two swords I'm pointing out because two swords isn't actually going to do them any good. They will be facing an empire. Two swords isn't even enough for them each to have one. But that's ok because they aren't going to use them anyway.

Never at any point does he actually tell them to defend themselves or himself with those swords.

Beyond that, this is just a telling of a story, not some kind of lesson to be learned. Quoting a single line from a story without it's context isn't the way to read this. By taking out that one line and using it the way it's used here is trying to imply that Jesus taught to always be armed even if it means selling your clothes to get a weapon. That totally not true and should be obvious when compared to the things he did teach about.

But people do this all the time with the bible. They just take a single line like that and use it completely without any context because it fits some kind of narrative they're pushing. It's nothing more than a lie. Using the alleged word of God for that lie too, which I'm sure is even worse to anyone of faith.

That's the point I'm making. I'm not saying anything about defending yourself or gun control or anything. I'm pointing out the false way people use the bible by cherry picking stuff out of it completely without context.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

I didnt mean the defending part to be used in that situation where Jesus is going to surrender himself. They could had went un armed in truth.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

You were just talking about defending yourself in general??

That's fine. I completely agree that there is nothing wrong with defending yourself or even defending someone else who is unable to do so for themselves. I don't see a problem with that at all.

Like I said, I wasn't meaning to imply that what I was pointing out should be part of that aspect of this topic. I was just talking about the cherry picking.

I support the 2nd as well. Not to the point where I think everyone needs to be carrying at all times. But I have no problem with people owning fire arms.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 01:56 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: gladtobehere
Luke 22:36-38

"“But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

Remain armed at all times, even if it means selling the clothes off your back.


It's amazing to me how people just take any line from the bible, completely without any regard to the context in which it is written and use it as if it not only applies to every situation now, but that it was meant as some kind of lesson to learn all on it's own.

It's the ultimate form of cherry picking select information and applying it where it doesn't belong.

Also, how do you actually come to terms with the conflict between Jesus saying "Turn the other cheek and love your enemies" and "Remain armed at all times"??? Clearly there is a conflicting message there that doesn't make much sense. How do you hold both those ideas at the same time as being correct??? Or does that even matter to you???


Talk about cherry picking..... you appear to win that match. This is a major problem with those who oppose Christianity by "cherry picking" verses to prove their point when that verse had a different meaning.

I do not think you understand the term "love". An example..... Me not beating the crap out of you because of your views is a term of love.

No reason explaining it to a non-believer because you do not understand.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 05:33 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

"Turning the other cheek" is not a literal instruction. We're not expected to stand there while someone beats us to a pulp...

The idea is that its better to avoid a confrontation.

Furthermore He said that we should always be armed for the purposes of self defense ie the Second Amendment.

And yes, people carrying at all times, if thats what they choose to do, is a God given right.

edit on 11-6-2017 by gladtobehere because: typo



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

jesus was not against using violence, he was always talking about people defending themselves. like when the thief breaks into the strong mans house. (which people want to say is just a comparison to ol bezel house being devided, but i say he was saying more than just that.)

also if you think about it, he also used a weapon at least once himself.



John 2:15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables


do you think that they would have just left if he went in just yelling at them.

Jesus knew that there was a time to use weapons and a time not to. he wasn't just a peace nick.



edit on 11-6-2017 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)


ETA: if it were possible to overcome evil with just words,( there are some that just will not listen to reason,be them individuals or whole armies. you see it all the time) there would be no need for Jesus to return with his host and slay the armies at Megiddo.
edit on 11-6-2017 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 07:27 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: gladtobehere
Luke 22:36-38

"“But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

Remain armed at all times, even if it means selling the clothes off your back.


It's amazing to me how people just take any line from the bible, completely without any regard to the context in which it is written and use it as if it not only applies to every situation now, but that it was meant as some kind of lesson to learn all on it's own.

It's the ultimate form of cherry picking select information and applying it where it doesn't belong.

Also, how do you actually come to terms with the conflict between Jesus saying "Turn the other cheek and love your enemies" and "Remain armed at all times"??? Clearly there is a conflicting message there that doesn't make much sense. How do you hold both those ideas at the same time as being correct??? Or does that even matter to you???

At least they know the Bible.....
Not like some folks that comment with repetitive tripe.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 11:17 AM
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a reply to: gladtobehere

You obviously missed the part where I said I have nothing against the 2nd.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 11:19 AM
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originally posted by: DeathSlayer

I do not think you understand the term "love". An example..... Me not beating the crap out of you because of your views is a term of love.

No reason explaining it to a non-believer because you do not understand.


LOL. You're such a tough guy.

Trust me, us non-believers understand just fine. Being a Believer doesn't impress me. Nor does it make you special.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Right. I'm sure if Jesus was alive today he'd be cage fighting at every opportunity.

Saying that he wasn't against using violence I think is obviously incorrect though. But you can believe what you want.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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originally posted by: Gothmog
At least they know the Bible.....
Not like some folks that comment with repetitive tripe.


Yeah. Clearly they know the bible really well. I'm sure you're an expert as well.

It's too bad all you can't really back up anything you say though. All you seem to have is baseless accusations and complaining.

Let me know when you actually have something worth listening to.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 04:20 PM
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It's hard to believe everyone missed the point of my statement.

I show up less when there are fewer people with wisdom around.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 06:10 PM
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originally posted by: TarzanBeta
It's hard to believe everyone missed the point of my statement.

I show up less when there are fewer people with wisdom around.


Why do you think we missed the point???

Maybe you're just not as wise as you think and we didn't find your point to be all that amazing.

I really like how you insult everyone's intelligence while bloating your own ego in that last statement however. Very classy.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 06:24 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
It's hard to believe everyone missed the point of my statement.

I show up less when there are fewer people with wisdom around.


Why do you think we missed the point???

Maybe you're just not as wise as you think and we didn't find your point to be all that amazing.

I really like how you insult everyone's intelligence while bloating your own ego in that last statement however. Very classy.


I showed my wife. She got what I meant and she's not a genius. I made sure I wasn't cray. My point stands.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: TarzanBeta

Well, if your wife likes it then it must be right. After all, it's not like she's going to be biased for you or anything.

I read all your posts in this thread. Which one is it that you think was so wise anyway??



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 06:36 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien

But why associate gun control with the left? Many on the left are for gun right. Even some Democrats are for it.
As a liberal I fully support 2nd Amendment 100% (that means no unreasonable control).



I lean left on social issues, but support the second with reasonable controls. Unfortunately, some see anything outside of everyone owning guns to be unreasonable.




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