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Is God Evil???

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posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

That does seem to more closely relate to the Greek and Norse pantheons than to the omnipotent god of Christianity.




posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 10:42 AM
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a reply to: imwilliam

If I watch a child be molested and do not take action when I had the power to do so, am I evil??

Or am I toughening them up for the later trials life will throw at them??

Cause even if I knew that molestation would make them a stronger person long run. I'm pretty sure that still makes me evil. Or at best a pageant mom lol..

When it's god it's just a billion times worse.. because he would absolutely have the power to intervene..

He would have no consequences for intervening, and in fact personally may have planned out the rape, just so he could torture the poor rapist who really didn't have much of a choice in the situation..

There are just logical fallacy on top of logical fallacies when you try to actually play Christianity out to its logical conclusion.
edit on 11-6-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: EasternShadow

originally posted by: Spacespider
How about this god entity just created the whole universe with all kind of life..
This god or gods had the ability to create universes, but the things within in will act on its own.
Free will I believe it is called.

So in that way.. we choose our self if we want evil or kindness

I would like to think that way. It would make a lot of sense if God just leave us alone to our freewill to choose our own path.

The very very big problem is this god entity has PLAN FOR EVERYTHING. Our fate is sealed the moment we exist.

He shouldn't has done so. It makes no sense. It's a very big mistake on God's part.

Or rather, it's a very big mistake on those who wrote, revised and compiled religious scriptures for the will of ancient emperor or the caliph.


Why..
Perhaps this god have no concept of good and bad..
Why would you think god have the same emotions as humans.. if emotions at all
Some speculate that our god is a simulation created by a advance artificial intelligence that resides in another dimension.
Like a simulation game on your dusty pc.. the time within the simulation is separate from the creation dimension.
So 1 sec in creation dimension could be eternal in ours



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: Spacespider

The OP was really referring to specificly the Christian god , predestination and the concept of hell and how it relates to predestination .

If you are on a side convo and replying specificly to some one I apologize.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: Spacespider
Why..
Perhaps this god have no concept of good and bad..

That is what I believe in. God is neutral. He has no concept of good and evil. He create everything by heavenly law. Even time has it's own law. Time always moves forward. Never backward. The arrow of time. We age as time goes and we die when the time is right. Everything that begin has to end. It is the law. It has to be. Without such law his creation will suffer. Nothing can be recycled to sustain life. You don't break that law without consequences. Something has to sacrifice in order to gain something else. The old need to go so the young could step in. Dinosaurs or the Nephalim need to be extinct so homo homo sapien could thrive. There is simply no good or evil in it. It just how the law should work.


originally posted by: Spacespider
Why would you think god have the same emotions as humans.. if emotions at all

Because the many authors of the Bible believe in God's love, justice, mercy and .... vengence, etc. It is written many times in the Old Testament and the New Testament. Even Quran is no better than Old Testament. For example, God can easily be offended even by minor cause such as not praying to him five times a day. This qualify that God has the same emotion has humans. A temper God, it seems. Not the kind of God you would like to mess around..


originally posted by: Spacespider
Some speculate that our god is a simulation created by a advance artificial intelligence that resides in another dimension.
Like a simulation game on your dusty pc.. the time within the simulation is separate from the creation dimension.
So 1 sec in creation dimension could be eternal in ours

Yes I play God games many times. My favorite is The Sims series. It's the game where I can observe my creations act on their own free will. How they are born, grow, get job and married, have children on their own etc...Sometimes they touches my heart as their stories unfold. Sometimes I wish to intervene but I cant, knowing too well it is better to leave them alone. Because it is the only way. Because it is how it should work.

Still, I'm well aware the differences in time between the dimension. I could always pause the time in game dimension to better look at what happens. Perhaps God has similiar ability to lock time in our dimension?

Anyway, god simulation games really gives me a long pause and hard thinking of what is the meaning of becoming God. Does it always has to bring disasters like global flood to the population who refuse to pray for you? You know ancient primitive Gods like Zeus and Odin love to wrestle their power to instill fear and to show who is to the boss.I thought it was kind of savage and brutal only primitive and barbarian people would commit. But then, I observed some modern players in Populous imitated exactly what Zeus and Odin like to do. Without even thinking the consequences of such abusive power.

No one like to be oppressed. No one like to be ruled against their will. No one like to be treated like slaves. Fear will not make people tolerant. They will resist you some day. And you don't want that. Because that is not the purpose of becoming God. True God would know every power is limited by it consequences. You cant just flooded everyone to extinct just because some small group of human defy you. It's simply doesnt work that way. But it happened to God in Bible. And it doesnt make any sense at all.
edit on 11-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 02:57 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: TzarChasm

That does seem to more closely relate to the Greek and Norse pantheons than to the omnipotent god of Christianity.


sorry for the tacky title in the video, that wasnt my idea.



and here is another segment where he breaks down some of the finer points of why atheism or agnosticism may arguably be a practical and healthy point of view. food for thought.




edit on 11-6-2017 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 06:20 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Raggedyman

Planning without effecting the out come is not what anyone means by god has a plan..

They mean he has already decided your fate and the fate of the world. There are 1000 flavors of Christianity, so if that is not your interpretation then this wouldn't apply.. at least not for the reason I put in my OP.


Calvinistic nonsense, you are quoting Calvinism and the evidence is the nonsense that grows from Calvinism, just like Wesboro
Jeremiah 19.5 states God couldn't have imagined his Israel committing child,sacrifice

Yet you decide to tell me my own mind, you become the one whe dictates what scripture does teach proper

As a Calvinist, atheist, Catholic, whatever you are, you become the mouthpiece of God
What gives you that sole power to decide for everyone what is meant.
Who are you?



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 06:52 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Raggedyman

Planning without effecting the out come is not what anyone means by god has a plan..

They mean he has already decided your fate and the fate of the world. There are 1000 flavors of Christianity, so if that is not your interpretation then this wouldn't apply.. at least not for the reason I put in my OP.


Calvinistic nonsense, you are quoting Calvinism and the evidence is the nonsense that grows from Calvinism, just like Wesboro
Jeremiah 19.5 states God couldn't have imagined his Israel committing child,sacrifice

Yet you decide to tell me my own mind, you become the one whe dictates what scripture does teach proper

As a Calvinist, atheist, Catholic, whatever you are, you become the mouthpiece of God
What gives you that sole power to decide for everyone what is meant.
Who are you?


that sure is an odd interpretation of omniscient. its almost like god doesnt actually know everything? odd indeed.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

As always, there is no Gods plan. This is clear from simple very clear facts right in front of our eyes. There would be no wars, disease and the rest of it but there is. People that say god gives us free will is just scape goat for not being able to explain those things I just explained. It also disgusts me when you have any religion saying a God died for us, when millions of lives have been lost in wars to die for our freedoms for real. Why would 1 person get all the credit for the modern day massacre that occurs now. Just like Santa, taking away the hard work of parents working hard to give their children gifts. Why must they allow their child to think they did nothing, this creates no respect from children to their parents and you wonder why they grow up like so. The same can be said for ALL religions as they all contain these pushed aside falsehoods that take away real genuine pride from those of us that work hard.

So, if he set us up to fail and if we are to believe their are such things. Wouldn't this make God, Satan?



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

No question.. I just lessened to some journalist on joe rogan , I think lay out the key to human happiness.. aka the meaning of life.. and it's so simple , and it's so obviously being used for evil through religions and politics, and gangs..


Basically in a nut shell , there are a very few things humans crave and are needed for a healthy psychology..

He said they genetically we had not yet evolved to deal with agriculture let alone the modern era. That we are presently designed to live in small communal groups of 30 to 40, all contributing, all valued all under threat of death or injury at all times.

Appearently you do not have depression or suicide in hunter father cultures. In nature a lone human is a dead human .

If your missing any of those things your prob gonna have mental issues.

That drive is what religion plays off of, including the threat.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 09:15 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

You must be talking about Satan "God of the earth"?!. (It's in the Bible)



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 09:41 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Raggedyman

Planning without effecting the out come is not what anyone means by god has a plan..

They mean he has already decided your fate and the fate of the world. There are 1000 flavors of Christianity, so if that is not your interpretation then this wouldn't apply.. at least not for the reason I put in my OP.


Calvinistic nonsense, you are quoting Calvinism and the evidence is the nonsense that grows from Calvinism, just like Wesboro
Jeremiah 19.5 states God couldn't have imagined his Israel committing child,sacrifice

Yet you decide to tell me my own mind, you become the one whe dictates what scripture does teach proper

As a Calvinist, atheist, Catholic, whatever you are, you become the mouthpiece of God
What gives you that sole power to decide for everyone what is meant.
Who are you?


that sure is an odd interpretation of omniscient. its almost like god doesnt actually know everything? odd indeed.


Well maybe I have fleshed omniscience out in a different way to how your Calvinist, atheist, Catholic, whatever you are leaders have told you to believe
I believe God is sovereign over my life, but not over my choices... Paradox!!!

and I know that you are now saying, "christians, they think they know everything but none believe the same thing", in that you would be right, because we are all different
Thats a good thing in my opinion.

And then funny, I offered Jeremiah 19/5 and you ignored it all together
What can I say.
I doubt you can understand love (based on your Fry video) so understanding God could be insurmountable
Try Kierkegaard if you want to understand existence philosophy


edit on 11-6-2017 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 10:25 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Raggedyman

Planning without effecting the out come is not what anyone means by god has a plan..

They mean he has already decided your fate and the fate of the world. There are 1000 flavors of Christianity, so if that is not your interpretation then this wouldn't apply.. at least not for the reason I put in my OP.


Calvinistic nonsense, you are quoting Calvinism and the evidence is the nonsense that grows from Calvinism, just like Wesboro
Jeremiah 19.5 states God couldn't have imagined his Israel committing child,sacrifice

Yet you decide to tell me my own mind, you become the one whe dictates what scripture does teach proper

As a Calvinist, atheist, Catholic, whatever you are, you become the mouthpiece of God
What gives you that sole power to decide for everyone what is meant.
Who are you?


that sure is an odd interpretation of omniscient. its almost like god doesnt actually know everything? odd indeed.


Well maybe I have fleshed omniscience out in a different way to how your Calvinist, atheist, Catholic, whatever you are leaders have told you to believe
I believe God is sovereign over my life, but not over my choices... Paradox!!!

and I know that you are now saying, "christians, they think they know everything but none believe the same thing", in that you would be right, because we are all different
Thats a good thing in my opinion.

And then funny, I offered Jeremiah 19/5 and you ignored it all together
What can I say.
I doubt you can understand love (based on your Fry video) so understanding God could be insurmountable
Try Kierkegaard if you want to understand existence philosophy



well, im pretty sure it wasnt a direct quote from god. it was a quote from someone who believed they received a message from someone claiming to be god. its amazing how quick people are to assume who is talking to them and for what reasons. its one of the basic rules of magic - the sleight of hand kind, not the occult kind. you show people a tiny bit of what they expect under the right conditions and they make their own assumptions. i have always thought it interesting that now we have the tools and methods to really study things even down to molecular structure and radiation all the way up to mapping the universe and recording videos and sounds of other planets, less and less "miracles" are happening. life is still beautiful, the world is still majestic, nature is still impressive and intimidating, but its a lot less puzzling. more questions are being answered thoroughly and sensibly. less and less of nature is attributed to supernatural orchestration now that we have the means to actually deduce and test it. you would think that all of these scientific marvels would lift the curtain and show us the divine backstage in all of its glory. would that not be a fitting reward for the critical thinkers and rational minded? but no. the more answers we uncover. the smaller god gets.

kierkegaard:


He proposed that each individual—not society or religion—is solely responsible for giving meaning to life and living it passionately and sincerely, or "authentically".


taking the above as a humanist premise, i would agree wholeheartedly. doing good things for the sake of theology is like making money to keep the bank up and running. but being fruitful as a human for the sake of humankind, being a productive citizen for the sake of community both domestic and national... that is authentic. that is its own reward, afterlife be damned. a good life means a good death. and a good death means hakuna matata.

what makes you think stephen fry doesnt understand love? love is the reason he is so confused and put off by monotheism. he more or less condenses that verse about love, how it is accepting of the entire picture and not just the pleasant bits. everything reassuring and terrifying, everything chaotic and orderly, everything bright and dark, love accepts and embraces it. he mentions that in the video. not in so many words, but he specifically says "the wonder of nature must be taken in its totality". preservation and decay, creation and destruction, agony and ecstasy. all of it. not just the convenient stuff or the happy coincidences. if love is a creation of god, then hate must be also. if elation is his child, then so is terror. justice, injustice, sin and grace. it all comes from the same place, all a descendant of his craftmanship. the alternative is that he is not the only creator, not the only god, and he is irresponsibly exposing his precious blue marble to something capricious and equally powerful. the question then becomes a matter of which one is the greater evil, or is it just a game of good cop and bad cop and both of them are just hand puppets manipulating us for the amusement of something truly unhelpful and unkind. point being that love is a lot of why stephen fry thinks as he does, and why i can appreciate a lot of his points. dont assume that because i dont respect your god i cant comprehend or experience love. but lets stay on topic.
edit on 11-6-2017 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2017 @ 02:16 AM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

I wonder if you know what doing good things for the sake of theology means?
How about doing good things because Jesus loves me and I want to show the world Jesus love by doing good things to others?

Because really, occasionally, I want to hunt some people down and bleed them out... sometimes...

Didnt Banzai mean good death as well? There are weeds as well as roses in every garden

Love means letting go, allowing others to be responsible, irresponsible, not controlling, not demanding.
Fry wants God to treat people as robots, programmed
Fry has a childish argument in my opinion



posted on Jun, 12 2017 @ 04:44 AM
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Looking at this subjectively, if I believed God did exist, I'd have to accept that he is both good and evil. How can he not be? He created all of reality; that includes the good things and bad things. The Devil (be it as a concept, or literally) wouldn't exist without God. He has to encompass the entire spectrum of good/evil, just as dark can't exist without light.

This thread perfectly demonstrates why I'm an Atheist. It highlights the flaws in any religious belief system, and asks valid questions of why God would act in this way, or in that way. There is no answer that makes sense, asides - perhaps - from the one that deduces that God does not actually exist, and things happen because of probability; nothing else.

Why do some children suffer and others don't? Why do some people do good deeds all their life and get all the wrong cards dealt to them, whilst others will do bad deeds and reap the rewards? Why do some people follow God and have awful lives, and others follow God and have great lives? Why is there no conformity to anything? Is it purely down to the luck of the draw and self-determination? Oh I know God apparently has a plan for everything, but that doesn't comfort people much when a baby dies prematurely and its mother commits suicide in her grief, as happened near where I live. What is the plan there exactly?

Life is not fair. That's because 'fair' is a human morality concept designed to comfort us in the belief that all men are created equal. It is closely related to the concepts of impartiality, equality and justice. We like to believe that if God exists, he behaves in a similar fashion - innocents will not suffer, good deeds will be rewarded, bad deeds will be punished. But life isn't like that, and things like abuse/cancer/poverty/depression/etc will strike down people regardless of age, sex or character. Those who read the Bible religiously (no pun intended) will no doubt find vague reasoning of some sort in there, or resort to the old 'God works in mysterious ways!' comforter, but I prefer to believe that he simply doesn't exist and we make our own luck.





edit on 12-6-2017 by elgaz because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-6-2017 by elgaz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2017 @ 07:01 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Good luck with that.

There are not a plethora of gods leading to heaven or eternal bliss.

There is only one way and that through Jesus Christ.

Do a word study of the word through int he NT and see that many times it is not a work of man but of God.

As far as stoning only the Jews were required to stone an Israeli or stranger who lived in their nation who violated the Law of Moses. Islam stole that from the Bible.

as far as eternal torture that is your doing not mine.



posted on Jun, 12 2017 @ 07:51 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

According to your personal interpretation, which is just one of a gajillion different interpretations of a thousand different religions..

How you just know your so awesomely speacial that you literally know the unknowable , I have no idea..

That is the equivalent of me claiming to just "know" the thetans from scientologies, real motivations...

When I haven't even established their were thetans, let alone that I know their personal motivations..

That is some egotistical stuff right there..

Eternal torture is my thing???

I'm pretty sure that is christianities thing, believes by the the vast majority of Christians..

Just like all of reality being part of gods "plan" is believed by the vast majority of Christians..

Put those together and you've got a psychopath deity torturing people for sins that god made them commit, because it was always his plan.



posted on Jun, 12 2017 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

You don't actually believe that you just reduced "God" or "God's plan" down to one option, do you? I think that is only crazy thing about your post.

It would appear you have a pro-gay / anti-religion motive.



posted on Jun, 12 2017 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: DerBeobachter

It's absurd people actually get this kind of nonsense from the internet and the try to make it seem like it has anything to do with the Bible



posted on Jun, 12 2017 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

If you can show me where in the bible that the Torments of hell are eternal for humanity I would be impressed
What I hear is a person who hears but doesn't put any effort into understanding what is said
edit on 12-6-2017 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



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