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Thank you Hillary Clinton and the DNC...

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posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 04:36 AM
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Sorry I really need to get to bed I'm burnt for the day.

'talk' at ya all later.




posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 04:52 AM
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a reply to: LockNLoad

Ok. Might I ask why you fear the lake of fire?

I believe the fear of that derived from the distant past when people were thrown into the fire or pit as it was called. Gehenna - en.wikipedia.org...

It evolved into something else.

I like to think that If I were 'God' would I condemn people to an endless Hell?

My answer is No. Forever is a long long time. Why would God condemn people forever? Where is the lesson in being tormented endlessly forever? There is no lesson because you'd never escape it. That to me lacks logic and sense.

Only a God who's bent on Sadism would do something like that.

Think about it.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 06:03 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: LockNLoad

When a person's voting record is clearly enslaved to their mythological beliefs, it's a relevant framework to base an opinion on.


So we can never elect anyone who has religious beliefs ever again because they're "enslaved" to their mythological beliefs.



Ummm...and by extension...any person with any beliefs whatsoever...ever...because you know...they're enslaved to their beliefs as well...

Take the warmists for example...total enslavement there my friend...

Nutters gotta nut...


YouSir



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 08:00 AM
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originally posted by: lordcomac
a reply to: LockNLoad
It's an antiquated form of social control that promotes violence at best and outright societal stupidity at worst.


Correct, these days we have beefed that old girl up - we have Facebook



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: LockNLoad

But it's not just his faith because there are plenty of Christians he didn't deny. My point with they "stoning workers on Sunday" bit is clearly there exist things in the bible that anyone would think it reasonable to deny for. The bible is like a Rorschach test, you in many ways can see what you want in it, and people can express themselves very differently by quoting bible passages. It's not merely that Vought was Christian, it's that the way he chose to express his Christianity leaves doubt as to his ability to be objective.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: RisenMessiah

As I said I don't and never did have any fear of it.

And I don't pretend to understand the whole of God plan, I just have to have 'faith' in Gods plan.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 11:55 AM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: lordcomac
a reply to: LockNLoad

If anything, we should be moving away from allowing religion. It's an antiquated form of social control that promotes violence at best and outright societal stupidity at worst.


You, sir, win the internet today.


The fact the OP you quoted received ANY stars for that crime of a post was bad enough. But you exalt it?

Freedom of Religion is a human RIGHT. It isn't "allowed" by anyone. It's a frigging right!

Freedom hater!



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: WhateverYouSay
a reply to: LockNLoad

But it's not just his faith because there are plenty of Christians he didn't deny.


I'm not sure what you are saying here, why would he deny any other Christians? This was strictly an interaction regarding his expression of his faith.


My point with they "stoning workers on Sunday" bit is clearly there exist things in the bible that anyone would think it reasonable to deny for. The bible is like a Rorschach test, you in many ways can see what you want in it, and people can express themselves very differently by quoting bible passages.


True there are many different expressions (as a whole) of the "Christian" faith, this speaks to my earlier post about organized religions being Satan's "ace in the hole". I can't speak for Vought or what the the overall tenets of his Christianity may be (and neither can Bernie).

To go back to your "stoning workers on Sunday" analogy... If Vought had sometime in the past worked or even talked about having a law/s to reflect that thinking, then that would reflect on what his past or potential 'work' habits may be, but just stating a belief in one of his religious tenets, does not mean he has or would push to force by law those tenets.

It would be like if another person of faith wrote something like "We do not recognize any authoritarian hierarchy" but did not try to impose that thinking through the force of law, and also stated that they understood that government by it's nature needs an "authoritarian hierarchy" to function, then I would called out Bernie or any other if they made the same negative actions.


It's not merely that Vought was Christian, it's that the way he chose to express his Christianity leaves doubt as to his ability to be objective.


Doesn't matter whether you or Bernie or anyone else likes the tenets of his faith, he has the 'right' to express those tenets, and the Constitution is clear that, that can not be used against a person. We 'have' to "judge" a person on what their actions are, and so far no one has shown any evidence that Vought has allowed his tenets of faith to "leak" in to policy making, Bernie and you are just making 'assumptions' on what may happen, with 'no' reference to past work performance.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: LockNLoad
a reply to: RisenMessiah

As I said I don't and never did have any fear of it.

And I don't pretend to understand the whole of God plan, I just have to have 'faith' in Gods plan.


The only reason you don't fear 'hell' is because you believe you're 'saved'. I don't believe that humanity needs to be threatened in order to believe in something like, surviving death.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: LockNLoad



I'm not sure what you are saying here, why would he deny any other Christians? This was strictly an interaction regarding his expression of his faith.
Yes but you can find appointees, particularly in other administrations that have expressed their faith that Bernie has not denied. My point is that it's difficult to claim it's a religious test against Christians when he has confirmed before.

The fact you think someone could support Leviticus in its harshest and not be denied is consistent I suppose but not necessarily supported by the constitution. The founding fathers worded things in ambiguous ways to leave them open to interpretation. Your hardline view would mean you could not deny an ISIS tier Islamist if they agreed to abide by the constitution and respect America's laws. Is that how you feel?



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 01:58 PM
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originally posted by: RisenMessiah

The only reason you don't fear 'hell' is because you believe you're 'saved'.


My salvation was at a very young age (9yrs old) and as I said I did it out of love for Christ. At 9yrs old and before my acceptance of Christ as my savior I had a lot of fears but burning in hell was never one of them.


I don't believe that humanity needs to be threatened in order to believe in something like, surviving death.


That's fine, you are entitled to your belief structure, as I am entitled to mine. I do believe that people need some form of motivation to make change in their life, for some that can be an internal form, for others they may need an external form, and others still may need a both, these motivations can be manifested as positive and/or negative (nurturing and/or disciplinary).



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 02:21 PM
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originally posted by: WhateverYouSay

Yes but you can find appointees, particularly in other administrations that have expressed their faith that Bernie has not denied. My point is that it's difficult to claim it's a religious test against Christians when he has confirmed before.


Ahhh... Now I think I understand what you are saying, and true Bernie has (I assume) made other appointments of Christians, but again I can only go by what I've seen in this video and it appears to me that Bernie voted "no" based strictly on Vought's expression of his faith.


The fact you think someone could support Leviticus in its harshest and not be denied is consistent I suppose but not necessarily supported by the constitution. The founding fathers worded things in ambiguous ways to leave them open to interpretation.


I disagree, I think the Constitution spell it out plainly - Religious beliefs are not to be used to prevent Government appointment.


Your hardline view would mean you could not deny an ISIS tier Islamist if they agreed to abide by the constitution and respect America's laws. Is that how you feel?


Yep, I may not like nor agree with their tenets of faith, but as long as they have no track record of allowing those tenets to leak into law or make statements about allowing those tenets into law, then they would fall under this Constitutional protection of faith.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: Gothmog

What separation between Church and State is in the Constitution ?
Will go easy on ya , as you probably are not really familiar , but know how to repeat what your neighbor tells ya..


I don't think people understand that the separation is not to keep religion out of the Government, but to keep the Government out of religion. Our Forefathers were religious and they came from a country with a state sponsored church...it's called freedom of religion not state run religion.

People are just quibbling over morality and where a person develops theirs... stupid.
edit on 10-6-2017 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: LockNLoad

You need to look at what's happening here again, because you're still not getting it. Bernie has nothing against Christians. Being Christian isn't why this guy didn't get Bernie's vote.

To put this in context:




At issue were a number of statements Vought had made in support of Wheaton College's decision, last year, to suspend and then fire a tenured African American professor, Larycia Hawkins. The reason: Wheaton College is a Christian school and Hawkins, who is Christian, not only donned a hijab in a gesture of solidarity with America's Muslim community but then later declared that Christians and Muslims "worship the same God".

In an article defending Wheaton's action, Vought argued that Hawkins' views were in err since "Muslims do not simply have a deficient theology, they do not know God because they have rejected Jesus Christ, His Son, and they stand condemned".


Does that sound like someone who is showing Respect for other Religions??? No. That is someone who uses their Religion against other people who don't share that religion.

That is why Bernie is calling him out. Because he may say all people of all religions deserve respect but he isn't capable of actually doing that.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

Wrong!! They must be separate for either of them to actually work.

Most of our forefathers were Religious, this is true. However, they came here to Escape from a Religiously controlled Government, not to create another one.

They saw first hand what happens when you allow a Theocratic Rule over the people and how there is no avenue for Justice to be served when you have the Church that calls the shots. Because nobody gets to question the Church when they get to claim the highest authority, God. Since God is also inaccessible to anyone, what the Church claims to be the law from God is therefore the law.

They saw the flaw in that which is why they created a nation ruled by Man and Mans Laws which were determined through a Democratic process where people get to have a voice in what happens.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: LockNLoad


I disagree, I think the Constitution spell it out plainly - Religious beliefs are not to be used to prevent Government appointment.


I'll end it here because we're at an impasse but I will say this; Sanders need not deny all Christians that tend towards fundamentalism, maybe if pressed could even admit some who think only Christians will go to heaven, all he has to do is question the motivation of Vought to write what he did and presume he would be unfair because of it.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: MysticPearl
The Dems' biggest mistake, and I'm not surprised as they're all emotion with little foresight, is 8 months post election still having Bernie and Hillary getting all the headlines. They've offered nothing new. They're digging their own grave.

A positive however for anyone who loves this country.


That's true. At least they featured Obama as someone fresh and new when they trotted him out in 2004. Apparently for the Dems now, their future is their past.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Took me awhile to find the actual news letter that Vought wrote, it is at this link.

The letter was written in support of Wheaton College's decision to fire a teacher that claimed that Muslims and Christians worshiped the same God.

From all appearances Wheaton College follows the religious belief in the Trinity of God.

The comments in question that Bernie brings up are Vought's response to a Dr. John Stackhouse's comments on the Trinity and the Christian focus on Jesus. The teacher fired apparently quotes "extensively" from Stackhouse's philosophy.

Vought goes on to talk about how Stackhouse implies that someone could know God without a focus on Jesus, and that Stackhouse claims that "having a deficient (e.g. nontrinitarian) theology of God, does not mean you are not in actual prayerful and faithful relationship with God". this goes directly against what appears to be Vought's tenets of faith.

Vought then goes on to say in regards to the Muslim faith worshiping the same God as Christians, that "This is the fundamental problem. Muslims do not simply have a deficient theology." ("deficient theology = nontrinitarian).

Then he get to the part that has everybody upset, "They do not know God because they have rejected Jesus Christ his Son, and they stand condemned." He then quotes scripture that supports his comment that those who have rejected Christ are condemned.

So he was making a comparison of the two religions and showing that they are not worshiping the same God and that by the tenets of his faith they would be considered "condemned".


Does that sound like someone who is showing Respect for other Religions??? No. That is someone who uses their Religion against other people who don't share that religion.


I, you, or anybody do not have to respect anothers religion to treat them fairly, and by reading the letter I don't see how he was showing disrespect, he was just pointing out the differences between the religions and what the bible says in regards to the differences.


That is why Bernie is calling him out. Because he may say all people of all religions deserve respect but he isn't capable of actually doing that.


I do not see any evidence of him being incapable of doing so, and IMO the letter he wrote was a respectful disagreement on a religious philosophy.
edit on 10-6-2017 by LockNLoad because: typo



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 04:20 PM
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a reply to: WhateverYouSay

OK thank you for your input, but I will say that Bernie didn't even need to bring it up seeing as how (IMO) religious beliefs have no bearing on appointments.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: LockNLoad

You are clearly just never going to understand what is being said by anyone else that says something outside your own narrative.

I don't think you are even capable of separating your Religious Loyalty enough to see this isn't even about Religion or Faith.

You are stuck with having to defend this man because he's Christian no matter what. Even though him being Christian is really just a detail in what this is about. He could be any Religion actually and this would be the same issue. It's not specific to his faith. The issue here is his inability to escape his Religious bias which he is apparently also blind to seeing as well. You seem to have a difficult time seeing it as well.

So I'm going to end my participation now. It was a nice chat, but we seem to be talking about two different things actually.




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