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Boeing releases more NMA details

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posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:42 PM
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Boeing has let slip a little more about the new mid-sized airplane (NMA), also known as MoM. They're looking at a twin aisle design, that seats less than 250 people in a dual class configuration, with a range of no more than 5,000 miles, and a fuel burn of less than 5 gallons per block hour per seat. They had conversations with 57 airlines and lessors to come to these statistics.



This would fall into the hundred seat gap that is between the Max 9, and the 787, and open up new markets that don't make sense for either aircraft, while providing even better fuel burn rates.


SEATTLE – The single most important question in commercial aircraft manufacturing over the last 24 months has been whether Boeing will finally launch a new mid-sized airplane (NMA) to address the so-called middle of the market (MOM) between its Boeing 737 single-aisle narrowbodies and Boeing 787 twin-aisle widebodies.

Boeing’s current “offering” in this market segment is the Boeing 737 MAX 9, the largest member of its next generation 737 MAX narrowbody family. But the 737 MAX 9 has been beaten soundly by rival Airbus’ A321neo in a market segment that aerospace analysts increasingly view as crucial over the next two decades.

Since mid-2015, it has been clear that Boeing would have to take some action to combat the threat of the A321neo. And while there is still no formal movement, developments over the last six months point to Boeing moving ever closer to revealing its approach to the MOM.

Our latest market intelligence comes from the pre-Paris Airshow bookings held by Boeing last week in Seattle. At the briefing, presentations from Ihssane Mounir, the VP Global Sales and Marketing; Mike Delaney, the VP & GM Airplane Development; and Kevin McAllister, the President and CEO, Boeing Commercial Airplanes, all touched on the NMA and the various approaches that Boeing is considering.

airwaysmag.com...




posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 08:00 PM
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Sorry mods. I don't mean to derail the thread (hehe!)...

"NMA" only means one thing to me-- "New Model Army" but then again I'm a punk rocker.

MoM is cool. So what does NMA mean in this context?

Feel free to remove to prevent thread drift!



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 08:43 PM
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a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

New Mid-sized Airplane.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 08:51 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Can they just roll this thing out already?



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: justwanttofly

They're farther along than they want to say, but not that far along yet.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 08:47 AM
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Boeing really has little choice here. Airbus is killing them so hard with the A-321NEO it must be bringing tears to the eyes of the execs in Seattle. The only other choice is to go with the 737Max 10, and that is a dead end so obvious that Airbus sales chief Leahy has been encouraging them to do it so you know its a bad idea.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 06:10 PM
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I like it. Its a good fit for those thin long routes esp. over the Atlantic (Like Newark to Barcelona) and be efficient enough to avoid those stops in Gander for fuel if the headwinds are unexpected etc.

Boeing no doubt would like to be first to market after being caught with their pants down on the A320 NEO. (I'm convinced the order book will become closer but It may take a while)

One thing Job preached at Apple was no never worry about cannibalizing your own product with one that is better as thebozeian pointed out above the 737-10 seems dead for this type of route....... they are just waiting for someone to claim the body
edit on 6/10/17 by FredT because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/10/17 by FredT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 06:40 PM
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a reply to: FredT

When you're talking about making a product that has to have the landing gear redesigned, because you stretched it so far that the existing landing gear doesn't work, you're taking it too far and it's time to move on to something new.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 07:54 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

I wonder when the same will happen to the 777X-10. I can only imagine what it'll be like sitting in the back of one in turbulence, watching the whole thing visibly flex.

Like the schooner Wyoming, only with wings!



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: Barnalby

They're about at the limits of what you can do with any aircraft as far as length goes. They're already reaching the point where they have to modify their takeoff angle because the aircraft is so long.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 11:00 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: FredT

When you're talking about making a product that has to have the landing gear redesigned, because you stretched it so far that the existing landing gear doesn't work, you're taking it too far and it's time to move on to something new.


yeah they really have taken the respective air frames to the max (737 and A320). They will need to go clean sheet even if they don't want too. Some of the landing gear work was to accommodate a larger fan too though



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 11:03 PM
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a reply to: FredT

The Max 10 is receiving an all new landing gear, because of the fuselage length. They're talking about doing a hybrid trailing link gear design that they will unveil at Paris. The current gear won't work with that fuselage length.


Although the engine is unchanged, the fuselage is lengthened so the main landing gear must be modified to enable adequate clearance of the longer body for rotation on takeoff and landing and to ensure the aircraft remains stall rather than pitch-limited.

The original plan was to lengthen the MLG however since the fan diameter is unchanged an easier solution which requires less changes to the wheel welll has been adopted, namely a "semi-levered" design which is more commonly known as a trailing-link, similar to that used on the 777-300ER and 787-10, that shifts the rotation point slightly aft. It is also believed that the gear will also be telescopic and contract during retraction to fit into the existing wheel well.

737 MAX vice-president and general manager Keith Leverkuhn said in Feb 2017 ."Boeing has been evaluating multiple “good ideas”, including a shift from the 737’s traditional oleo strut to a trailing link landing gear design, A key criteria in the final decision (of the MAX-10) later this year will be the inherent reliability of the landing gear design,"

Keith Leverkuhn said on 2nd May about the -10 MLG: “The design focus is on the upper portion of the gear as it integrates with the actuator. In this area, within the tight confines of the existing wheel well, Boeing’s new design will do some “clever folding using a link mechanism at the top,”

"The lower section of the leg is also modified with an additional shock strut that fits inside the same forging. This moves the contact point aft a little bit. That’s fundamentally what we are doing and yes, it will look like a trailing link gear. We want to make it maintainable, reliable, and we are going to need that gear to get the performance we want out of the -10 but I’m confident in the solution set,”

When talking about testing Leverkuhn says: “The kinematics are tricky. How do we take this fundamentally longer gear and make sure it folds up nicely in the gear well. So we do drop tests to understand the structure we have sized is appropriate and another rig test around the function of the new gear. We will spend most of the year doing that, but we are really zeroing in on it,” Boeing is constructing two gear test rigs, one for functionality and the other for robustness.

www.b737.org.uk...
edit on 6/10/2017 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Your right, the non -10's got a increase in front landing gear length to accommodate a larger fan and maintain a 17" clearance but no other gear modifications. I wonder if they will be able to fit a bigger fan on the -10?



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 11:16 PM
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a reply to: FredT

From the sound of things they're not going to change the fan at all on the -10. They might change their mind, but it sounds like it's going to be slightly shorter ranged than the -9.



posted on Jun, 11 2017 @ 08:24 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58
If they actually go for the Max 10 this will mark what, third major gear change to the 737 family? If this new NMA/MoM concept is a twin aisle then I wonder if it can be downscaled to become the 737 successor in 10-15 years time. Or will it become a case that with their fancy new construction technology (Black Diamond, although they are working on others too) they are rumoured to be rolling out on the TX trainer, they will tailor a new narrow body single aisle or even a different twin aisle instead? Because while once upon a time this would have been seen as cost prohibitive, with these new rapid and lean systems they can in the future move a design from concept sketch to pre-production in only a couple of years, full production in not much more. The limiting factor is supply chain, something both big majors as well as all the main defence aerospace conglomerates have been working very hard on. This may allow 1950's-60's development time frames to return, which begs the question will we see similar time frames for lifespan?

Could NMA herald the start of a design and manufacturing revolution greater than the 787 leap? I think its possible, which is why Boeing should just cut its losses on the Max 10, cede the ground to the 321NEO for a few years and pull out all the stops on the new twin aisle.


edit on 11-6-2017 by thebozeian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 04:37 AM
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More details are expected to be released today, but Boeing has confirmed the aircraft will have a composite fuselage. They have shown pictures of a hybrid fuselage that's a mix of a round fuselage similar to the 777, crossed with an ovoid fuselage similar to the 737.

m.aviationweek.com...



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 07:51 AM
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Well seems I was wrong about the Max 10. There have been a raft of orders at Paris so far. It will be interesting to see the first images of the NMA too.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 08:52 AM
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When do you think Boeing will start making a blended wing passenger aircraft?

Sounds like we are at the limit of what current commercial planes can do.


edit on 20-6-2017 by grey580 because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-6-2017 by grey580 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 09:40 AM
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a reply to: grey580

Never. BWB aircraft aren't that suitable for passenger air travel and the world's airports aren't set up for them either. I don't expect to see BWB's to be used for anything but cargo transports.
What we will see I believe, are more minor changes to aerodynamics and drag reduction techniques that are currently in development or being tested on other platforms, coupled with ever increasing engine efficiency.



posted on Jun, 20 2017 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: thebozeian

United just converted 100 aircraft into the 10.



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