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The Last Battle in Old Testament prophecy

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posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 05:01 PM
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The “prophecies against the nations” in the Old Testament were provoked by a long series of invasions and sieges directed against Jerusalem and the kingdom of Judah.
Of course the function of these prophecies was to encourage God’s people Israel, to assure them that their God would take their part against their enemies.
Ultimately this leads to a kind of prophecy which appears in a number of different forms, but carries this general message;
“The time will come when there will be just one more attack on our people from those outside.
The assault will be repelled with God’s help, and even reversed, and this trouble will then come to a permanent end”.

Thus Micah’s version of this prophecy begins “And this shall be peace” (ch5 vv5-6).
In this case the invading army is “the Assyrian”, the current enemy in Micah’s time.
“We shall raise against him seven shepherds”. Seven is the number of God, so this refers to a leadership provided by God.
“And eight princes of men”. Infants were circumcised on the eighth day, following the mandated interval of seven days, so perhaps “eight” should be regarded as the fully-consummated version of seven.
This leadership will not only “deliver us from the Assyrian”, but will also (henceforth) rule the land of Assyria themselves.

In Ezekiel, the invasion is led by Gog of the land of Magog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal (chs38&39).
These people are joined by Persia and Cush, and by Gomer and Togarmah.
This looks like a re-creation of the coalition of Medes and Persians and other tribes which brought down the Babylonian empire.
They are called “the peoples of the north”.
In the times of the later prophets, most of the dominant powers (Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Seleucid) are approaching Judah from the north, so “the north” becomes a generic location for God’s enemies.
This coalition will approach the south at a time when the region is living in peace. They will have been “brought forth” into action by God himself, leading them with hooks through their jaws.
But the wrath of God will be roused and will enter into judgement against them.
The important point is that this will be the end of such invasions;
“And my holy name I will make known in the midst of my people Israel, and I will not let my holy name be profaned any more” (ch39 v7).
It will then be possible for the nation to live in peace in Ezekiel’s version of the “new Jerusalem”.

In Joel, “all the nations” will come together for an armed rendezvous in the valley of Jehoshaphat, so that God can judge them.
This may refer to the place where that king defeated a previous coalition.
These will be defeated when “the Lord roars from Zion, and utters his voice from Jerusalem, and the heavens and the earth shake” (Joel ch3 vv11-16).
And again, the Lord will dwell in Zion, which will be in peace, “inhabited for ever”.

In Zechariah, God says “I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle”.
They will get as far as taking the city and sending half of it into exile.
THEN, and only then, “the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle… The Lord your God will come and all the holy ones with him” (Zechariah ch14 vv1-5).
Then Jerusalem will live in peace and holiness, but that will not be the only outcome.
The other nations will also turn to serving the Lord;
“Then everyone that survives of all the nations that have come up against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of booths” (v16).

Isaiah describes a future time when “I will distress” Ariel, city of David. There will be a siege and the city’s courage will evaporate;
But “in an instant, suddenly, you will be visited by the Lord of Hosts with thunder and with earthquake and with great noise”, after which “the multitudes of all the nations” will vanish like a dream on waking (Isaiah ch29 vv1-8).

At the end of Isaiah, the Lord goes out to fight against the nations, the enemies of Israel, and he begins his work with Edom, a people who have already invaded and taken possession;
“Who is this that comes from Edom, in crimsoned garments from Bozrah,
He that is glorious in his apparel, marching in the greatness of his strength?...
I trod down the peoples in my anger, I made them drunk in my wrath, and I poured out their lifeblood upon the earth” (Isaiah ch63 vv1-6).
This is the beginning of the process of redemption and the creation of a new world;
“For as the new heavens and new earth which I will make shall remain before me, says the Lord, so shall your descendants and your name remain.
From new moon to new moon and from sabbath to sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, says the Lord” (ch66 vv22-23).

Finally, the ending of Daniel concerns itself with a hostile ruler already in place, dominating the land.
He comes down from the north, spreading his power over the south (like the peoples of Gog), but he then faces resistance from other parts of the world;
“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people,
And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time, but at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book” (Daniel ch12 v1).

I think we need to recognise that underneath the variations in the name given to the invaders, and in the progress of their strategy, these are all versions of one and the same prophecy about the same event;
“One more assault on God’s people from the outside world is decisively repelled, and brings the series to a close.
The way is then clear for the glorious new world of God’s rule”.

The Christian approach may take the hint offered in “the other nations come to worship the Lord”, and understand the “overcoming of the Gentiles” theme to be at least partly fulfilled in the Christian mission to the world.
However, this doesn’t bring a final conclusion to hostility “from the outside world”.
Therefore Revelation serves the purpose of providing the New Testament version of the prophecy.
It brings together different themes from the Old Testament versions.
The Beast dominating the world is Daniel’s “hostile ruler already in place”.
One climax comes when the armies of the world are summoned to meet in a place of judgement, as in Joel.
And a couple of chapters later, the nations of the earth led by “Gog and Magog” attempt an assault on the city like the assaults in Zechariah and Isaiah.

The first rendezvous is diverted to Megiddo or Armageddon, because that was the place where Josiah, God’s champion, was defeated and killed. The purpose of Armageddon is to reverse the result of the previous battle.
This would not be a battle between human armies, but a battle between the power of man and the power of God.
For this purpose, there is no physical need to gather armies together in one place.
Nor would there be a need for physical fighting; the words of Zechariah were “as on a day of battle”.
The corpses in the vision are there as a graphic metaphor to express the completeness of the victory.
The “victory” is obtained by the presence of God in power. This ought to be enough in itself to disable all human strength, so that literal fighting would be neither necessary nor possible.

Thus the “last battle” theme, as revised by the New Testament, is really just another way of describing the return of Christ in the power of God.



edit on 9-6-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 05:46 PM
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It is of note that God is not the instigator of the final battle. It is also called in Revelation Armageddon. Rather it is an all out assault, caused by Satan the Devil, upon God's people. Revelation shows us that the demons will gather all the kings of the earth to attack Jehovah's people, just as Gog of Magog (the chief of the coalition) and all the nations with him come out to attack Jehovah's servants.

I have heard people complain that God would wage the war of Armageddon, stating that if he is a God of love he would not fight a battle like that. But these same people are usually the ones that complain that God allows evil. That final battle will do away with evil, and it will bring about a new world of peace with Jesus as king over the earth.

Not only is it a righteous war on God's part, it is also loving for him to protect his peaceful and harmless people, who have no weapons or arms to fight for themselves. They are like sheep in the eyes of the nation ready for the plundering.

So Armageddon is actually a defensive maneuver on God's part. He will not have instigated the attack but he will act to vindicate his name, and he will no longer allow the nations to defame his name, he will act to sanctify his name before many nations as he says there at the end of Ezekiel 38:

(Ezekiel 38:23) . . .And I will certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.’

(Revelation 16:14) . . .They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.


What I found interesting, as I was just reading through the prophecy in Ezekiel 38, 39 last night, was the time-period after Armageddon.

It appears that immediately following the battle of Armageddon, there will be such a massacre of humans that it will take a very long time to finish burying the dead. In fact in chapter 39 of Ezekiel it seems that there are instructions on how Jehovah's people will have to deal with the aftermath of that final battle:

For example it says that fires will continue for 7 years after the war:

(Ezekiel 39:9, 10) . . .The inhabitants of the cities of Israel will go out and make fires with the weapons—the bucklers and shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and lances. And they will use them to light fires for seven years. 10 They will not need to take wood from the field or gather firewood from the forests because they will use the weapons to light fires.’. . .


And it shows us that there will be men assigned to walk throughout the earth identifying body parts, and others will go behind them to bury them. It appears that this marking and burying work will last a grueling 7 months. And the beasts of the field and the flying creatures of the heaven will also be invited to dine upon the remains of Jehovah's enemies:

(Ezekiel 39:14-20) . . .“‘Men will be assigned to pass through the land constantly and bury the bodies left remaining on the surface of the earth, in order to cleanse it. They will continue the search for seven months. 15 When those who pass through the land see a human bone, they will set up a marker beside it. Then those assigned to do the burying will bury it in the Valley of Hamon-Gog. 16 And there will also be a city there named Ha·moʹnah. And they will cleanse the land.’ 17 “As for you, son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘Say to every sort of bird and to all the wild beasts of the field, “Gather yourselves together and come. Gather all around my sacrifice that I am preparing for you, a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. You will eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You will eat the flesh of mighty ones and drink the blood of the chieftains of the earth—the rams, lambs, goats, and bulls—all the fattened animals of Baʹshan. 19 You will gorge yourselves on fat and drink blood until you are drunk from the sacrifice that I prepare for you.”’ 20 “‘At my table you will be filled up with horses and charioteers, mighty ones and all sorts of warriors,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

This reminds us of what Revelation says about that coming day:

(Revelation 19:17, 18) 17 I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of military commanders and the flesh of strong men and the flesh of horses and of those seated on them, and the flesh of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”


This also shows us that Armageddon is not the end of the literal earth. The earth itself will still remain and Jehovah's promise to the meek that they will live forever upon the earth will be fulfilled.

It also shows us that God's people are already organized as a group of people earth-wide. It is not a haphazard group of people out of all kinds of disjointed and disunited religions who have no unity. They obviously are already very organized. An just as they are today preaching and teaching about God's kingdom, then their work will change from preaching, to a work of burning up all that is left of this wicked world, and burying the dead that are left over on earth, that are not incinerated by fire, or who are not eaten by the animals of the field and the birds of heaven.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 06:00 PM
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originally posted by: Tinystarlight
Revelation shows us that the demons will gather all the kings of the earth to attack Jehovah's people, just as Gog of Magog (the chief of the coalition) and all the nations with him come out to attack Jehovah's servants.

In the case of Gog, at least, there is a paradox, in that God is said to drag the coalition out into battle, "with hooks through their jaws", before he defeats them. Similarly the attack on Ariel, which God defeats, is also one that he instigates in the first place.
The solution to the paradox may be that the enemies of God's people are acting on their own impulses, and God allows that to happen- "giving them enough rope", as it were, before frustrating them. As long as he implicitly permits them to act, he is described as "bringing" them.


It appears that immediately following the battle of Armageddon, there will be such a massacre of humans that it will take a very long time to finish burying the dead. In fact in chapter 39 of Ezekiel it seems that there are instructions on how Jehovah's people will have to deal with the aftermath of that final battle:

In the OP, I described those details as a "graphic metaphor" illustrating the completeness of the victory.
I questioned whether a victory which could be won instantly by the mere presence of God in power would require any physical fighting.


Not only is it a righteous war on God's part, it is also loving for him to protect his peaceful and harmless people, who have no weapons or arms to fight for themselves. They are like sheep in the eyes of the nation ready for the plundering.

Yes, this is the whole point of the book Revelation. God's people come under attack, they must preserve their faith in his ultimate power to protect them.



edit on 9-6-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Agreed that God allows the nations to draw forth to attack his people. It will appear to them as if his servants are easy plunder.

I think you could use the battle between Pharaoh and the Israelites and the Red Sea as a good analogy of what that war will be like.

In Ezekiel 38 it appears to Gog and his hordes (Gog is obviously the nation that instigates the attack, and the hordes are his coalition of nations, in Revelation 16:14 it says that all the kings of the earth are involved) will see Jehovah's servants as defenseless and easy plunder.

That reminds you of when Pharoh saw the Isralites with their backs to him and the Red Sea in front of them. It appeared as if Jehovah was a poor military strategist. He was leading his people into a corner easily to be slaughtered by Pharaoh's war chariots and his army.

But then Jehovah did something unexpected. He parted the waters of the Red Sea, allowed his servants to walk through on dry land, and Jehovah already knowing Pharaoh's hard heart and obstinate nature knew that the military force would rabidly go into the seabed after the Israelites.

The angels were taking the wheels of the war chariots and they were driving them with difficulty through mud and sludge, even though the Israilites walked through on dry ground.

Then finally after the Israelites passed through God had the waters fall down upon Pharaoh and his military force and there they died.

So God will put his hooks into Gog's nostrils, like you said, by making it appear his witnesses are helpless with no help, they will be as easy plunder to the nations.

But then Jesus will ride forth, and 2 Thessalonians already tells us what will happen to the ungodly people at that time:

(2 Thessalonians 1:6-9) . . .This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

edit on 9-6-2017 by Tinystarlight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: Tinystarlight
And, of course, it is said that God "hardened Pharaoh's heart", which is a classic puzzle verse. I think that's a similar case- as long as God lets them do it, he is in a sense "causing" them to do it.

I have been impressed by the thought that Armageddon is the reversal of Megiddo. Everything in the kingdom goes downhill after Josiah has been defeated and killed, and it must have been a drastic blow to the faith of the loyal servants of God. The end of Revelation is all about reversing the apparent defeats which God suffered from Eden onwards.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Why is your interpretations Armageddon not a physical battle??


"The word “Armageddon” occurs only once in the Bible, at Revelation 16:16. Prophetically, Revelation shows that at “the place that is called in Hebrew Armageddon,” “the kings of the entire inhabited earth” will be gathered “together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.”—Revelation 16:14.

Who will fight at Armageddon? Jesus Christ will lead a heavenly army to victory over God’s enemies. (Revelation 19:11-16, 19-21) These enemies include those who oppose God’s authority and who treat God with contempt.—Ezekiel 39:7."


The mainstream opinion is that is is a earthly battle..



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox
Because I believe the unveiled presence of God in power would be enough to disable all human power to act, making any physical fighting unnecessary.
It is not a contest between human armies, but God's power confronting human power, and God's power would overcome instantly just by being there. Job done.
He does not need to kill them, because the time of judgement follows on from that event. He just "takes them prisoner", as it were.




edit on 9-6-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Good points which I had not pondered about Josiah's defeat. Too bad he went forth when he shouldn't have.

I believe that God "hardened" Pharaoh's heart, by the 10 plagues.

If you remember originally when the Pharaoh that met Joseph, he was a good man and had a kind heart. He listened to Jehovah's prophecy by means of his dreams and interpretation of Joseph, and appointed Joseph over all of Egypt (to prepare for the 7 years of famine). And then when he heard Joseph's brothers had come, he told them to come live in the land of Egypt in the very best it had to offer. So that Pharaoh was a good person.

This Pharaoh some 430 years later was a wicked and evil person with a haughty and arrogant disposition. Instead of taking correction from Jehovah he had this attitude: "Who is Jehovah that I should obey his voice? I do not know Jehovah at all!"

And each plague taught Pharaoh who Jehovah was, but instead of humbling himself, he continued to stiffen his neck and harden his heart against God.

God does not force anyone to be or do anything. He does correct us though. And either we are like clay that will be molded in his hand, or if we harden our heart, like Pharaoh, we will be broken. He allows everyone to decide from themselves.

The same is true for us today. That is also why he allows, at times the world rulers to persecute his people. He gives him the dignity of respecting their freewill. But with it comes consequences. He will correct them. It is up to them whether they will listen to that correction, or if they will reject it and become like the haughty Pharaoh and harden their hearts. It appears that at that time, they will have hardened hearts against God.

Timely is the warning of Psalm 2 to those world rulers:

(Psalm 2:10-12) . . .So now, you kings, show insight; Accept correction, you judges of the earth. 11 Serve Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling. 12 Honor the son, or God will become indignant And you will perish from the way, For His anger flares up quickly. Happy are all those taking refuge in Him.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: JoshuaCox
Because I believe the unveiled presence of God in power would be enough to disable all human power to act, making any physical fighting unnecessary.
It is not a contest between human armies, but God's power confronting human power, and God's power would overcome instantly just by being there. Job done.
He does not need to kill them, because the time of judgement follows on from that event. He just "takes them prisoner", as it were.


But he will kill them. It is quite plain, we are told they will receive the punishment of everlasting destruction:

(2 Thessalonians 1:9) These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction . . .

(2 Peter 3:7) . . .But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.

(Deuteronomy 7:10) But those who hate him he will repay to their face with destruction. He will not be slow to deal with those who hate him; he will repay them to their face.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 06:41 PM
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originally posted by: Tinystarlight
Good points which I had not pondered about Josiah's defeat. Too bad he went forth when he shouldn't have.

I really, really don't understand why he did that. It was insane, in military terms, and he had no commands or prophecies telling him to go, not that we know of. I can only think that he fell into the trap of "testing" God, without permission.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: Tinystarlight
But he will kill them. It is quite plain, we are told they will receive the punishment of everlasting destruction:

All your quotations are about the judgement. That rather lends point to my comment that he would not need to kill them in the "battle" which precedes the judgement.
What I am disputing is the necessity of any physical fighting involving physical death.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: Tinystarlight

God is the instigator of EVERYTHING..

His world, his creations, his plan..



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

So you disregard what it actually says and put your own personal meaning to to..

Fair enough..

I don't know how you think you are a bettter interpreter than literally a millinia of biblical scholars..



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:05 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Tinystarlight
But he will kill them. It is quite plain, we are told they will receive the punishment of everlasting destruction:

All your quotations are about the judgement. That rather lends point to my comment that he would not need to kill them in the "battle" which precedes the judgement.
What I am disputing is the necessity of any physical fighting involving physical death.


The judgement comes, then death. The judgement day of 1,000 years will be for all the resurrected who did not know God and never got a chance to. Obviously we cannot be dogmatic and say who will be destroyed at Armageddon, that is not our place. But prophecy does say that most of mankind will be destroyed.

Obviously man cannot physically attack God, or even his angels. And this is how powerful 1 angel is. One angel killed 185,000 soldiers of Sennacherib in one night. They too could not physically fight against God but they still died.

Jesus taught that the road to life is narrow and few will find it. He also said that the majority of of mankind are on the road to destruction:

(Matthew 7:13, 14) 13 “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.

Zephaniah talks about Jehovah's day and says the entire earth will be devoured (most of mankind will be destroyed):

(Zephaniah 1:15-18) . . .That day is a day of fury, A day of distress and anguish, A day of storm and desolation, A day of darkness and gloom, A day of clouds and thick gloom, 16 A day of the horn and of the battle cry, Against the fortified cities and against the high corner towers. 17 I will cause distress to mankind, And they will walk like blind men, Because it is against Jehovah they have sinned. Their blood will be poured out like dust, And their flesh like the dung. 18 Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them in the day of Jehovah’s fury; For by the fire of his zeal the whole earth will be consumed, Because he will make an extermination, indeed a terrible one, of all the inhabitants of the earth.”

Jesus likened his return in kingdom glory to the days of Noah. And just as in Noah's day the people took no note of God's warning prophet Noah, until he entered into the ark, and then the flood came, and everyone died, so it will be then too. Everyone that does not take note of the kingdom preaching being done on earth will be done away with. It isn't that they are going to physically be able to fight against God. They will attack God's people on earth, and God will destroy them.

(Matthew 24:38, 39) . . .For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. . .


I think what you are getting wrong is the fact that people will willingly change their hearts. God will not do that for them. He has given us freewill. Even when Jesus appears in heaven with supernatural signs and portents heralding his return people are NOT going to repent suddenly.

And God is NOT going to change their hearts. In fact at THAT TIME is fulfilled the prophecy:

(Revelation 22:11) Let the one who is unrighteous continue in unrighteousness, and let the filthy one continue in his filth; but let the righteous one continue in righteousness, and let the holy one continue in holiness.


The foretold destruction of wicked mankind is not symbolic. God is NOT going to change their hearts. And he will NOT allow wickedness to continue past Armageddon.

Notice that prophecy in Revelation said that at that time, the unrighteous will continue in unrighteousness, and the filthy will continue in their filth. They WILL NOT repent. And thus they will have to be destroyed.

There is NOT, and nowhere does Holy Scripture and prophecy in it teach that there will be a mass conversion of everyone.

In fact true Christians already know this. They are not trying to change the world. They know God is going to do that by means of his kingdom in Jesus' hands. They are spreading the good news, and right-hearted ones listen to it.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:05 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox
You don't normally come forward as a defender of traditional Christian interpretation, so I must query the sincerity of your criticism.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:12 PM
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originally posted by: Tinystarlight
I think what you are getting wrong is the fact that people will willingly change their hearts. God will not do that for them. He has given us freewill. Even when Jesus appears in heaven with supernatural signs and portents heralding his return people are NOT going to repent suddenly.

The foretold destruction of wicked mankind is not symbolic. God is NOT going to change their hearts. And he will NOT allow wickedness to continue past Armageddon.

Notice that prophecy in Revelation said that at that time, the unrighteous will continue in unrighteousness, and the filthy will continue in their filth. They WILL NOT repent. And thus they will have to be destroyed.

There is NOT, and nowhere does Holy Scripture and prophecy in it teach that there will be a mass conversion of everyone.

Here you are starting to dispute things which I have not said.
At no point have I denied that there will be judgement.
I am only questioning whether there will be a physical battle first.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:18 PM
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Something well worth watching - all biblically based of course.

Chuck Missler the Magog Invasion.



peace



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:32 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Tinystarlight
I think what you are getting wrong is the fact that people will willingly change their hearts. God will not do that for them. He has given us freewill. Even when Jesus appears in heaven with supernatural signs and portents heralding his return people are NOT going to repent suddenly.

The foretold destruction of wicked mankind is not symbolic. God is NOT going to change their hearts. And he will NOT allow wickedness to continue past Armageddon.

Notice that prophecy in Revelation said that at that time, the unrighteous will continue in unrighteousness, and the filthy will continue in their filth. They WILL NOT repent. And thus they will have to be destroyed.

There is NOT, and nowhere does Holy Scripture and prophecy in it teach that there will be a mass conversion of everyone.

Here you are starting to dispute things which I have not said.
At no point have I denied that there will be judgement.
I am only questioning whether there will be a physical battle first.



Ok, I see what you are saying.

The physical attack at that time will be against God's people. For you to understand this you will have to recoginze that God has a named people that he has taken out of the nation's. And organized people who are preaching for his name. They do not have weapons and do not get invovled in carnal warfare.

The phyiscal attack will be upon them. So it will be more of a persecution than a physical war on earth. But even then God's word does say that he will throw the nations into confusion, and even then everyone is going to turn upon each other.

So there will be physical warfare being waged on earth among the ungodly at that time. Look here is the prophecy at Ezekiel 38:

(Ezekiel 38:21) “‘I will call for a sword against him on all my mountains,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘Every man’s sword will be against his own brother.

So while they will ride forth to attack God's people, because they do not have peace or unity, God will easily turn them on each other, and they will be murdering and slaughtering each other.

It reminds us of what God says at that time about the nations who will draw close to attack his Christian congregation:

(Zechariah 14:12, 13) “And this is the scourge with which Jehovah will scourge all the peoples who wage war against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot away while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot away in their sockets, and their tongues will rot away in their mouths.  “In that day confusion from Jehovah will be widespread among them; and each one will grab hold of the hand of his companion, and his hand will come against the hand of his companion.

If this is to be taken literally, they may already have gathered a good number of God's servants, perhaps having them detained in concentration camps. Or maybe be in the process of attacking them at their homes. Nevertheless prophecy says those trying to directly attack Jehovah's witnesses at that time will have their flesh rot away while standing on their feet, and their eyes rotting out of their sockets and their tongues rotting out of their mouths.

Their will be a physical assault upon God's people. And those soldiers involved in that direct final assault will receive this curse from God. And he will confuse the people, just like he did against the kings that drew together to fight Je·hoshʹa·phat.

Jehoshaphat did not lift a hand. In fact he was told to put the priests at the front of his battle line, and have them sing praises to Jehovah. And while they were singing, the kings turned upon each other and destroyed themselves:

(2 Chronicles 20:22, 23) . . .When they began joyfully singing praises, Jehovah set an ambush against the men of Amʹmon, Moʹab, and the mountainous region of Seʹir who were invading Judah, and they struck each other down. 23 And the Amʹmon·ites and the Moʹab·ites turned against the inhabitants of the mountainous region of Seʹir to destroy and annihilate them; and when they finished with the inhabitants of Seʹir, they helped to destroy one another.


Obviously God's servants do not get involved in warfare and are not invoked in politics and do not carry carnal weapons of war. So the battle is not one they will fight. But the entire world will be enraged at them with hatred. And they will go forth to attack them. And they will turn upon each other in their seething rage instead.

So battles will be raging on. Those directly attacking Jehovah's servants will be rotting away (perhaps literally) as a punishment for their attack, and the rest f the nations will be busy fighting each other. It will be a very bloody event. And then God's angels with Jesus at the lead will appear and finish off wicked mankind, the entire earth of wicked mankind.

And everyone hoping in Jehovah and singing praises (literally at that time they will be gathered together in groups, or individuality praying and singing to Jehovah) will be saved! While thousands they will watch fall at their side by God's angels of death, no harm will befall them:

(Psalm 91:7-10) . . .A thousand will fall at your side And ten thousand at your right hand, But to you it will not come near.  8 You will only see it with your eyes As you witness the punishment of the wicked.  9 Because you said: “Jehovah is my refuge,” You have made the Most High your dwelling; 10 No disaster will befall you, And no plague will come near your tent.







edit on 9-6-2017 by Tinystarlight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:50 PM
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originally posted by: Tinystarlight
Nevertheless prophecy says those trying to directly attack Jehovah's witnesses at that time will have their flesh rot away while standing on their feet, and their eyes rotting out of their sockets and their tongues rotting out of their mouths.

No, prophecy does not specify Jehovah's Witnesses. God's people are all those who belong to God, especially those who belong to God in Christ, and that category is NOT limited to any particular group that wants to set itself up as special, whether because they obey the Pope, or because they take Saturday as their rest day, or because they have created special points of differentiation in order to be able to claim uniqueness.
The attitude that only Jehovah's Witnesses belong to God is dangerous to you spiritually; it may entrap you into colluding with the enemies of God in the persecution of the rest of his church.
We don't belong to God because we belong to a specific social body under human organisation; we belong to God because we belong to Christ. That is the ONLY criterion.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 08:26 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Pointing out the craziness of thinking we know better than everyone else.

"They are so wrong , even after over a thousand years of biblical study by historians and theologians and I have puzzled out the truth.."

You literally would have come to a conclusion neither the "true believer " theologians nor the secular historians have come to..

Imho you are probably trying to end around the fact that would mean Jesus and his desiples would be murdering all the nonbelievers according to the Bible.. which is absolutely the mainstream theology.. but just disgusting from modern standards.



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