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No permit, training needed for concealed carry of guns under bills passed by House

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posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 09:47 PM
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Good day for freedom today in Michigan.
Another hurdle was passed for the average person to protect themselves with out a costly "coat tax". It is closer to a person being able to carry a concealed weapon with out the onerous paperwork and huge costs.


LANSING, MICH. - Most gun owners would be able to carry concealed weapons without a permit or training under a bill that passed the state House of Representatives on a mostly party line vote Wednesday.
“There seems to be some confusion of what our constitutional rights are. Our right to defend ourselves comes from our creator,” he said. “Today’s a good day, when you get to vote to uphold the constitution.”
But most Democrats, who were joined by seven Republicans in opposing the main piece of legislation, said the legislation was widely opposed by law enforcement and would do nothing to make communities safer.
The bills – HB 4416-4419 – now move to the Senate for consideration, although Amber McCann, spokeswoman for Senate Majority Leader Arlan Meekhof, R-West Olive, said there is no timeframe set to take up the bill.
www.wzzm13.com... 905

So it is on the senate, but there is no time frame to get to this. What a damn shame, wonder how many people will be raped, murdered and assaulted because a constitutionally guaranteed right is being kept from the people?




posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 09:59 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

One little problem.

Snyder.

I've been watching this one fairly carefully and his past statements are a bit of a wildcard.

Q: Would you uphold the 2nd Amendment and support the rights of gun owners as well as the hunting industry? A: In one word: absolutely. I actually own three guns myself. I have a 12 gauge shotgun and two .22 rifles that I use for target shooting. I believe the 2nd amendment also protects the right of citizens to have a gun in their home to protect their family and property. I also support the rights of gun owners to responsibly carry their gun, as long as they have attained the legal permit. While I'm not an avid hunter, I support the industry and believe it plays an important role in our economy and quality of life. It also can have a valuable environmental conservation impact and I would work to streamline the processes so that hunters get better customer service from the state and local governments. We have a long tradition in our state of supporting gun rights and the hunting industry in Michigan and I would continue to support that tradition as Governor.


www.ontheissues.org...


edit on 7-6-2017 by JinMI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:03 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

He is a odd mix-he put an additional 5 cent gas tax increase-and a possible no on this with a veto. I am not sure if they have the votes to override.

Perhaps another rino. Rino is short for ass hole.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:04 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Perhaps he should be reminded of the above statement before he picks up his pen. Would also want to consider if he wants a 2nd term.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:05 PM
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Good luck!
Something similar passed in Maine a few years back, and it's gone well.

I still have a permit from before- it was far out of reach for the average Mainer, costing too much time and money for most to consider. Combined with assinine laws about what counts as concealed, it was a big problem I was happy to see sorted.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:06 PM
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The goddamned Constitution says, "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" ... right there in the 2d Amendment. A bunch of damned pussies have convinced everyone the words mean something different.

You don't need frikkin permission!! Carry your damned guns. Shoot anyone who opposes you!! Hell ... criminals are smarter than most of you!!



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Im very pro gun. But I do think its a good idea for people to take a training course before being allowed to conceal carry in public.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: Snarl

Then wheres my full auto!!!



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:11 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Snarl
Then where's my full auto!!!

It's not me 'infringing' on your rights. You make one and I'll help you defend it against all comers.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:14 PM
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a reply to: Snarl

I agree, we are asking for permission from someone who does not have the authority to demand compliance.

The irony is a bunch of militarized up "police" will make sure you are in compliance, and they will have guns-full auto tax payer funded guns.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:15 PM
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a reply to: pirhanna

That is up to the the person who carries and is not in the constitution.

Have you taken the concealed class. You will not learn what is needed if I follow your drift.
edit on 7-6-2017 by seasonal because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:19 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: pirhanna

That is up the the person who carries and not in the constitution.

Have you taken the concealed class. You will not learn what is needed if I follow your dift.


The class is a joke. An expensive, grueling waste of time and money- so it wasn't very funny.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

I think the only money you should have to spend for concealed is a good training class, or pass a proficiency test.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:23 PM
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originally posted by: pirhanna
a reply to: seasonal

Im very pro gun. But I do think its a good idea for people to take a training course before being allowed to conceal carry in public.


Agreed. I, too, am a huge 2A advocate but I'm an even bigger advocate for responsible gun ownership. And that starts with gun safety.

If a person is a novice gun owner they should be required (at a minimum) to attend a hand gun safety course. We have them in our state and they are $50 for 2 hours. The novice gun owner walks away being a capable and more responsible gun owner which is what we need.

With the damn liberals looking for ANY excuse to infringe upon our 2A rights we should all advocate for responsible and safe gun ownership. I'm against over regulation but let's be honest. There are some really stupid people who want to own guns and safety is the last thing they focus on. I don't want them f**king it up for the rest of us.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:29 PM
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a reply to: Outlier13

Since the 2nd Amendment is applicable to every US Citizen then the solution is quite simple.

Teach it in schools. Simple. Then everyone will have the required training.

The Federal Government could help by paying for the classes.

Win win.

P



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:29 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

edit: Do you think that is mandated?


The hurdles get added on and on.

My point of view is that you (not you) can't put any restrictions on the right to carry a concealed weapon. The good training to you is crap to some.
If we trust a person to carry-we must trust that they are practiced up and can put the lead where they point the gun.

I can understand your apprehension. But this freedom is not to be infringed.
edit on 7-6-2017 by seasonal because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:32 PM
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I need a lawyer. I took the class and got denied the permit for something that happened when I was 16 that I should be able to get expunged. My CCW is about to get a whole lot more expensive.

I can't help but wonder, if some bill like that passed here in NC, what would happen to someone like me? Would it be a legal nightmare if I ever had to use it or would it suddenly be A-OK?

As far as the removal of the required training and pemit, I'm caught on the fence. I believe anyone who is going to handle a weapon needs to be well trained on the use of, safe handling of, dangers of, and the circumstances in which using a weapon is legally and morally acceptable. At the same time I really, really hate having to pay a high priced tax for them just for them to deny a constitutional right to me. I see the need for training and a permit but, in all honesty, remove the fee and make it free to those who are trained and can legally own a weapon. There's the sensible middle ground.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:32 PM
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a reply to: pheonix358

That has been my stance as well. I as fortunate enough to be taught firearms safety since I was old enough to hold one. Hunter Safety was mandatory before obtaining your hunting license.

In a state where students have the day off for opening day of rifle season, it should be a foregone conclusion.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: CriticalStinker

edit: Do you think that is mandated?


The hurdles get added on and on.

My point of view is that you (not you) can't put any restrictions on the right to carry a concealed weapon. The good training to you is crap to some.
If we trust a person to carry-we must trust that they are practiced up and can put the lead where they point the gun.

I can understand your apprehension. But this freedom is not to be infringed.


That money you have to spend to prove you know how to use a firearm helps weed out irresponsible individuals.

If you want a concealed weapon, pay and learn.

Just like everyone has the right to have a car, you have to prove you can operate it.

I'm very pro gun, and very anti dumbasses. I don't trust many people with guns. Sure it's a right, but it's also a privilege.

Should felons have them, or have they lost their privilege?



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 10:41 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: CriticalStinker

edit: Do you think that is mandated?


The hurdles get added on and on.

My point of view is that you (not you) can't put any restrictions on the right to carry a concealed weapon. The good training to you is crap to some.
If we trust a person to carry-we must trust that they are practiced up and can put the lead where they point the gun.

I can understand your apprehension. But this freedom is not to be infringed.


That money you have to spend to prove you know how to use a firearm helps weed out irresponsible individuals.

If you want a concealed weapon, pay and learn.

Just like everyone has the right to have a car, you have to prove you can operate it.

I'm very pro gun, and very anti dumbasses. I don't trust many people with guns. Sure it's a right, but it's also a privilege.

Should felons have them, or have they lost their privilege?


Nope not a privilege.
A car is a durable good. The second amend is a right. The comparison seems to discount what God wants us to have.
Felons cannot own guns-against the law. For a good reason.



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