A Few Unarmed London Community Police Ran Away From Terrorists Leaving Citizens Alone

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Xcathdra

Keep your guns, Second Amendment and Armed Police etc and we'll keep ours the way WE want.

You mean the way "YOU" want. You don't speak for me, just as I don't speak for you.

One has to ask...

Why are all the police in N. Ireland armed? The issues with N. Ireland deal with terrorism and the targeting of civilians and the conflict is based on religion.

How is it different than what is occurring today?

NI police were under constant, daily threat to their lives.
They were actually targets for the provos and suchlike. I guess it's tougher to give up your gun once you have it.

a reply to: Xcathdra

That has always been fascinating to me. The whole religious aspect of northern Ireland. Its centuries old conflict that has found an uneasy peace through what is sometimes a forced tolerance by strength.

The UK military may be staged down for international affairs but its anti domestic terrorism police force is no joke.

I think thats what keeps the radicals' feet firmly planted in reality. They take what they actually can get, and forget about that which is impossible.

Radical Islam doesnt have a middle ground really. It wants what it wants and doesnt see compromise in its own future.

To that tune, Islamic leadership isnt founded in reality. Its hope and ambitions keep pushing it into absurd conflict over less than practical goals.

The IRA had to accept that this is peace and the best for both. The UK government had to accept a concession that wasnt 100% what it hoped for.

This is how its done in a less than perfect world.

Its an interesting subject to say the least.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
One has to ask...

Why are all the police in N. Ireland armed? The issues with N. Ireland deal with terrorism and the targeting of civilians and the conflict is based on religion.

How is it different than what is occurring today?

It's not exactly based on religion, it just so happens that religion is one of the original differences between the conflicting groups.

If Britain had flooded Northern Ireland with Catholics in order to maintain control over the region, there would still be a conflict. Google the Plantation of Ulster for a bit more background.

a reply to: EvillerBob

You mean the way "YOU" want. You don't speak for me, just as I don't speak for you.

True.
But its a collective 'we' - the vast majority of the British public and serving Police Officers agree with current UK gun laws.

Of course you knew all that....

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: EvillerBob

But its a collective 'we' - the vast majority of the British public and serving Police Officers agree with current UK gun laws.

Of course you knew all that....

I don't necessarily agree with either of those statements, actually. I think the vast majority don't really care either way, with the strong pro/anti crowds sitting at opposite ends of the spectrum making a lot of noise...

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: EvillerBob

You mean the way "YOU" want. You don't speak for me, just as I don't speak for you.

True.
But its a collective 'we' - the vast majority of the British public and serving Police Officers agree with current UK gun laws.

Of course you knew all that....

Sky poll: Most Britons want police to be armed

The vast majority of Britons support routinely arming police officers in the UK, a Sky Data poll reveals.

Some 72% of the public say police officers should be routinely armed, while 20% think the police should not carry guns as a matter of routine.

Excluding those who answered "neither" or "don't know", 78% support arming police and 22% oppose.

The poll was conducted in the aftermath of terrorist attacks in Manchester and London.

Theresa May has come under pressure from Labour for presiding over cuts to numbers of armed police, while she in turn has criticised Jeremy Corbyn over his past opposition to a "shoot to kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.

click link for article...

originally posted by: EvillerBob

Hospital shooter

Just going to leave this here... Thank God Your Doctors Have Guns?

What a messed up, pile of %&$#?@! country you live in.

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: EvillerBob

Hospital shooter

Just going to leave this here... Thank God Your Doctors Have Guns?

What a messed up, pile of %&$#?@! country you live in.

He's British and the UK is not a 'pile of %&$#?@! country' thank you very much

Also the thread's founded on a fake news, made up tissue of lies. No UK media reported any of these 'witnesses saw PCSOs fleeing' comments. They've been made up by US bloggers wanting to generate gun debates. They link to UK media sources but who follows links? Who cares as long as it's a ripping good yarn?

a reply to: Kandinsky

Very true the UK is not, the UK is just about starting to come to its senses regarding Tories/Brexit and making a turn for the better.

I should of clarified my comment was aimed at the Americans in this thread, the ones pointing their guns at their monitors now shouting about how they are stopping the Government from taking their hard earned unemployment benefits.

a reply to: SudoNim

Yeah I know

Unusually for a Brit, I've come to agree with rational Americans regarding the 2nd. There's no sense in taking guns from people who have never committed crimes and pose zero risk of becoming murderers.

I'll never agree with the irrational ones who profess to believe the world will be made of duckling feathers and candyfloss if we all carry and collect guns. Sure, they're all sharpshoters who can hit a target in an Aurora cinema or packed nightclub without killing bystanders. Not a one of them will ever shrink from a violent encounter or have their weapon taken.

It's all meh anyway and a matter of perspective. One guy's dream of armed teachers is another's dystopic nightmare.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Not sure if your conversation was directed at me or no...

I advocated that the UK should arm their police. If not then your citizens should have the ability to properly defend themselves from people wishing to do them harm. Australia has similar gun control laws as the UK yet their officers are armed.

Arming everyone is not a solution I agree.

Even with the overwhelming number of patrol officers the UK has they are still placed at a disadvantage when dealing with terrorism. It is absolutely heroic that one officer engaged multiple terrorists armed with knives with only his baton / ASP however, and respectfully, it never should have occurred in that manner.

Here in the states law enforcement has whats called a 1+ advantage. It means law enforcement is allowed to lawfully escalate the level of force they are using in order to overcome the resistance encountered.

Question - Do UK police have anything at all like that?

a reply to: Xcathdra

I consider you a 'friend' and a rational one at that. You're one of the small group who changed my mind about guns and gun rights.

Here in the states law enforcement has whats called a 1+ advantage. It means law enforcement is allowed to lawfully escalate the level of force they are using in order to overcome the resistance encountered.

It's very similar in practice with due consideration to what's known as 'Common Law' and about five other pieces of legislation. It amounts to anything goes as long as they use the 'minimum amount [of force] necessary' and that it's 'reasonable under the circumstances.'

This PDF is core reading for UK police and trainees - Use of Force - College of Policing. It should answer your question in better detail.