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A Few Unarmed London Community Police Ran Away From Terrorists Leaving Citizens Alone

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posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 08:09 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Start noticing question marks.
It was a question not an accusation.




posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: EvillerBob

Lol I'd prefer more constables and scrap PCSO's as well.
Last time I was arrested I'd floored a prick security guard and two PCSO'S tried to detain me but backed off when I told them to go # themselves until a warrant carrying officer arrived.
Constables arrived and chuckled because I only recognised their authority.
Got released no further action an hour or so later.


I'm assuming from the reference to "security guard" that they suspected you of shoplifting, which is now specifically included in the definition of "indictable offence" necessary to perform a citizen's arrest under PACE. If so, they would now certainly have the legal power to arrest you! It's likely that they had the power back then, as well, though it would have been through a slightly different route.



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 08:24 AM
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a reply to: toysforadults

There's an old saying.

Hard times create strong men, strong men create Good Times, good times create weak men, weak men create hard times.

It's a cycle as old as humanity, we're definently at the end of a cycle.
edit on 5-6-2017 by WhyDidIJoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 08:43 AM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Xcathdra

Start noticing question marks.
It was a question not an accusation.


and, again, if you read the posts in their entirety you would know the answer.



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: EvillerBob
I'm assuming from the reference to "security guard" that they suspected you of shoplifting, which is now specifically included in the definition of "indictable offence" necessary to perform a citizen's arrest under PACE. If so, they would now certainly have the legal power to arrest you! It's likely that they had the power back then, as well, though it would have been through a slightly different route.

Ah that's interesting to know

No, it wasn't theft of any kind, my mate has MS and the store guard was badly disrespecting him thinking he was drunk because of his unsteady mobility. He followed us out of the store onto the public highway and I called him a jumped up little prick for his attitude, to which he steamed into my face, closed my desired 12 inch gap so I head butted him.
Store guards from all over town suddenly appeared and I had my back against a wall in a mexican stand off which continued when the PCSO's arrived, and stopped when the constables turned up.

I couldn't give a # if a PCSO can legally detain me though, if I know I'm innocent, or likely to be found innocent through reasonable doubt in a court, I won't allow anyone other than a warrant carrying cop detain me without defending myself.
PCSO's obviously back off because they don't carry sticks.
edit on 5.6.2017 by grainofsand because: Clarity



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 11:15 AM
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Just been told that the doorman who got stabbed by the terrorists is someone who I know.
I've only met him a couple of times through mutual friends - a really good lad.
He is now out of intensive care, but......

Someone serious lads all around the country are getting very, very angry about all this and regardless of who is in Westminster after Thursday they expect to see real action taken rather than just the usual empty political rhetoric.

We'll see.
edit on 5/6/17 by Freeborn because: grammar



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn

Glad he's gonna pull through fella.
And you are right, people are starting to get angry, people with illegally held firearms, not just knives and vans, proper organised bad boys.
The Muslim community would do well to address the traitor Imams and problem mosques before the bad boys do.



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 11:49 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

He's out of Intensive Care but who knows what long term injuries / effects it will leave?

Like I said, only met him a couple of times but he struck me as a decent guy.

I really don't think that many people here on ATS are quite aware of just how high feelings are at present and exactly what some of these people are capable of.

To be honest, May's statement on Sunday morning did sound as if the tide may have turned slightly and those in power may actually be prepared to start doing something real and concrete.
But as yet its still the usual political sound bites and rhetoric, something May seems particularly adept at doing whilst in reality doing absolutely nothing whatsoever.



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 11:53 AM
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a reply to: toysforadults

What were they going to do besides give the attackers something else to kill for a few seconds?

Kung fu?

EDIT TO ADD:
I will rarely judge a person who runs from death. I hope I would respond to a situation like that the way I want to believe I would. Leave others to try and do the same you know. FEW actually know how they would respond.


edit on 6 5 2017 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn

It's completely wrong to suggest May does nothing.

Since she became Home Secretary police numbers have been reduced by almost 20%.

Doing nothing would be a massive improvement.
edit on 5-6-2017 by ScepticScot because: Random capitalisation



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 12:01 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn

I truly hope he recovers fully.



Someone serious lads all around the country are getting very, very angry about all this and regardless of who is in Westminster after Thursday they expect to see real action taken rather than just the usual empty political rhetoric.


That's the thing isn't it? Something must be done, it's the what that's the sticking point. The same ol', same ol' doesn't work, and never will.

I freely admit I don't have any notions as to what might work.



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: proteus33

Wow, my hero.

I guess not everyone is as **sigh** brave **sigh** as you. More's the pity.

A knife is not that dangerous a weapon... In and of themselves, nope, no more dangerous than anything else, as they're inanimate objects incapable of independent action. It's the jackholes on the other end of 'em that make 'em dangerous. I'm sure those "buttholes" with the blade that you've disarmed were hyped up fanatics bent upon killing/wounding as many as possible...and I'm sure there were three of 'em. Yep, I'm sure that was the case.

An unarmed, probably untrained, copper is nothing but another target, and will be nothing but an impediment when the armed response force gets there. Either as a victim to be triaged, or a hostage...a guy or gal in uniform makes for a wonderful hostage.

It's really easy to be a keyboard warrior, you don't know what the situation was, so saying you'd just charge right in and be the hero is easy enough to say, less easy in reality, otherwise people would do it all the time.



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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Rowaida Abdelaziz‏Verified account @Rowaida_Abdel 4h4 hours ago

In an unprecedented move, 100+ U.K. imams & religious leaders refuse to perform Islamic funeral prayer for London attackers. Full statement: pic.twitter.com/eymzpHtkIu





posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 05:40 PM
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Theres a few misconceptions bandying about about terminology.

CPO's (Community Protection Officers) are unwarranted wardens employed by local councils to enforce summary offences, they may or may not aquire accreditation which allows them 'some' powers of a PCSO. They often wear council specific attire or similar to a security guard. They are not permitted to carry any offensive weapons (such as a baton or cs/pava). They often use a radio which has no direct connection with the police or access to police information or systems - occasionally the police will have a CPO's radio to bridge between them. They have a power of arrest akin to ordinary members of the public (citizens arrest).

PCSO's (Police Community Support Officer) are employed by the Police but are ring fence funded by the government. They are paid a salary and were designed to be the eyes and ears on the streets, building relationships with members of the public and dealing with low level antisocial behaviour. They can enforce summary offences and are given specific powers due to accreditation which an ordinary member of the public couldn't exercise - particularly the power to detain and request details or perform searches and seizures, which can result in an arrest by a Constable if the subject doesn't comply. In line with being members of Police Staff they are not warranted but they may carry Baton, Handcuffs or CS spray 'if' authorised to do so by the Chief Constable. However, only the British Transport Police have so far given authority for them to carry handcuffs. They can only exercise accredited powers whilst on duty 'and' in uniform but maintain ordinary powers of arrest accorded to every citizen.

SC's (Special Constables) are unpaid volunteers who are warranted, fully sworn and carry the full powers of a Police Constable 24 hours a day, in or out of uniform. They where identical uniforms to full time constables although their collar numbers usually vary slightly. They carry the same equipment and perform the same duties, often undertaking training over an extended period of time and less specifialised - concentrating on public order and community policing. Some SC's have trained to become response drivers, wildlife and rural specials, traffic or high level public order/riot officers. They usually bring skills from their day jobs which contribute to their role, particularly in the City of London Police who may have highly skilled financiers and accountents who would be otherwise outside the pay scales of the police ( a police officer might only earn 25k a year whilst a successful accountent could earn 6 figures). Contrary to popular belief, Special Constables predate the paid full-time police force which exists today and does not place a squeeze on resources or steel overtime but exists as a quintessential bridge between the public and the police. SC's are restricted from working in particular professions which may compromise their powers and responsibilities. They cannot hold alcohol licenses or work as security guards in a public facing role as they have police powers.

PC (Police Constable). A fully sworn, paid member of a police force.

* I will add. The City of London Police doesn't have its SCs doing the police's books, rather the investigation of fraud etc.
edit on 5-6-2017 by ObsidianEclipse because: added a line to clarify



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 06:06 PM
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People always seem to claim that armed citizens will stop crime. But does it? Not really. Did it save anyone in Florida when a disgruntled worker killed 5 employees and then himself? Nope. Did it save anyone when a crazed lunatic raided a gay bar? Nope. There is quite a long list of tragedies were concealed gun laws utterly failed to make a difference. The only time you hear about how the glory of armed citizens stops crime in its tracks, is the rare story of an armed home owner shooting a burglar. Those often gets dozens of pages of responses here.. as if those rare occurrences totally justify guns.

I actually think it's great we can have weapons in the U.S. - I am just saying it's not nearly the crime-stopping solution people make it out to be. It allows nuts to get their hands on them easier as well. The amount of vetting for gun control is pathetic. Time and again mass murder crimes are committed by people who are known to the police as well as the FBI, and yet.. they gather a plethora of guns.. and then commit a mass murder crime.

So if you are suggesting that mass arming the citizens in England will somehow magically stop these sorts of events from occurring, dream on.



posted on Jun, 5 2017 @ 08:49 PM
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a reply to: seagull
as i said i was untrained and yes i have disarmed buttholes with blades one of them was threating to kill his niece . no i have not come across radicalized buttholes in my travels but still a blade is easily defended against if you use your head . if you going to be a cop be a cop why pay for people to hang around and call the armed police . people have said the armed police took 8 or 9 minutes to get there but these other guys were already on scene if they were already trained and armed the whole situation might have been stopped with a few well placed shots. unarmed police in this day and age is STUPID GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND.



posted on Jun, 6 2017 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: proteus33

Even China has started to arm their police. Thats saying something considering their laws on guns.



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 03:51 AM
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originally posted by: fleabit
People always seem to claim that armed citizens will stop crime. But does it? Not really. Did it save anyone in Florida when a disgruntled worker killed 5 employees and then himself? Nope. Did it save anyone when a crazed lunatic raided a gay bar? Nope. There is quite a long list of tragedies were concealed gun laws utterly failed to make a difference. The only time you hear about how the glory of armed citizens stops crime in its tracks, is the rare story of an armed home owner shooting a burglar. Those often gets dozens of pages of responses here.. as if those rare occurrences totally justify guns.


The problem with your argument is that, if an armed citizen shoots a bad guy and stops the killing spree... it's not reported as a killing spree.

There are multiple incidents where someone was stopped at a very early stage, not just "rare story" of a home owner shooting a burglar. Often those incidents start with some firing indiscriminately into a crowd of people.

For example, a second nightclub was attacked about two weeks after the Orlando shootings, did you know that? The attacker was stopped by an armed patron, with only three victims falling before he was stopped.

Or the guy who opened fire with a rifle in a shopping mall in Oregon - it was a CCW who stood their ground and challenged him, thankfully before anyone was hurt.

Then there was the guy who rammed his car into a church parking lot and started shooting at people - stopped by a member of the congregation with a CCW.

Or Kiet Thanh Ly, who flipped out and started stabbing people at a supermarket screaming "YOU KILLED MY PEOPLE!" - stopped by a customer with a CCW.

Or Peter Odighizuwa, who walked into a law school, executed some members of faculty, then started to fire randomly into a crowd of students, killing at least one - stopped by armed students before more people died.

Did you hear about the guy who decided to go to his doctor's office and shoot everyone? Probably not, as the doctor used his CCW to stop the attack after the first victim was killed. The shooter had a pocket full of ammunition, potentially 40 victims if he used it all.

The list goes on, and on, and on. Do you know which incidents you DO hear about? The ones that DON'T get stopped.

The disgruntled employee case is a bit different. It's not a random attack in a public place. You tend to keep your guard down at work and some companies may prohibit CCW anyway. As the doctor's case above shows, even those incidents can be stopped if you're able to react.

CCW of some kind is not a guarantee, I completely agree with you. What I do think, however, is that it's better to have a fighting chance than no chance at all.


edit on Ev53WednesdayWednesdayAmerica/ChicagoWed, 07 Jun 2017 03:53:27 -05004122017b by EvillerBob because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2017 @ 04:04 AM
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they tried doing something in paris today first cop took a beating second cop stopped perp cold by shooting him. and as i was saying if the ones on the scene had just been given a baton pepper spray or a taser things would have been much much better. putting dudes and dudettes on the street in uniform with no training and no way to defend themselves is moronic. london goc should be ashamed for wasting tax payers money fielding limp noodle cops




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