Portland Free Speech Rally – Live Updates!

a reply to: Abysha

No. I don't think so.

Not unless it can be proven the actions of this person were directly incited by the people organizing the rally ... as in they paid him to do it or something as blatant.

I mean really. Why aren't you upset at Ariane Grande for holding her concert tonight? A bunch of kids were blown up at her last one and just not even 24 hours ago, a bunch more people were stabbed. Don't you think it's insensitive to the people touched by the violence at her last event?

originally posted by: [post=22314460]Abysha

Who is defending the killer?

Anyone at the rally? You wouldn't know because you didn't watch, but I haven't heard anyone.

I thought ATS was somewhere were we could challenge each others opinions? Your point seems to be that you shouldn't be challenged because you are grieving.

I bring up Manchester because right here on ATS you said all religions were bad, criticized Israel, etc. not a weak after the deaths.

How are you anyone better than the very people you are criticizing, that couldn't keep your opinion to yourself while people were grieving?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha

No. I don't think so.

Not unless it can be proven the actions of this person were directly incited by the people organizing the rally ... as in they paid him to do it or something as blatant.

I mean really. Why aren't you upset at Ariane Grande for holding her concert tonight? A bunch of kids were blown up at her last one and just not even 24 hours ago, a bunch more people were stabbed. Don't you think it's insensitive to the people touched by the violence at her last event?

Were the terrorists die-hard Ariane Grande fans?

This guy was a die-hard fan of "free speech" and repeated the things they said, not to mention having attended their rally before.

Again, this is why I used the Pony analogy.

I'm not saying these free speech people are spouting hate nor intentionally inspiring terrorism. My ONLY point was that they are indisputably connected and this timing was horrible.

The organizers could have said "Considering the recent events in Portland, we're going to reconvene our free speech awesomeness in August". But they didn't. In fact, an organizer claimed it was "open season on anti-fa".

They showed up looking for a fight and, unfortunately, people here are angry, hurt, and willing to oblige. It sucks. This is why I don't like it. It could have easily, and gracefully, been prevented.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: Grambler

I haven't watched it yet. I'm in domestic princess mode right now, chatting between chores.

The content of this particular rally isn't the offense. It's the fact they held it knowing what an influence they had on that terrorist.

What hogwash. No matter when they held the rally there would be protests.

I'm so sick of worthless rally/counter-protest events. The people running both sides should just plan them together at this point. Without each other to feed on the press dries up. The press only attends because they hope these events turn violent.

Of course there would be protests. Becauthat, theye don't like that sort of extremism here. The speaker said, leading up to this rally, that it's "open season on antifa". Why would any liberal-minded populace think it's a great idea to have their kind of rhetoric spewed on our public shared-space?

But this one is purposefully insensitive and intentionally aggressive. They came here to pick a fight and rub salt in wounds, knowing they could have rescheduled but didn't.

So yes, it would have been protested under normal circumstances but no, people like me who are not activists wouldn't be getting involved like they are today. People are sad, hurt, and angry. This rally is seen as nothing more than a giant middle finger to those still grieving.

So antifa repeatedly is violent at conservative rallies = no big deal to you.

In response, a conservative guy says something stupid - outrage from you.

If you would have watched, you would see one of the rally holders from the last rally said he reported that Christian guy to authorities and kicked him out of the rally last time.

So to you, how long must a free speech rally be held off until it would be acceptable?

And again, its telling that you have never once made a thread about BLM stopping after cops have been killed, or anti trump protests after a handicap boy was tortured.

I've never once lived in one of those cities.

Quit questioning my motives. If this hhappened in your town by some jihad terrorist and you thought the pro-jihad rally held the following week was in poor taste, I wouldn't be telling you that your attention isn't equally applied among all headlines.

Fist I would defend their right to have that rally, and even if I hated what they were saying, I would hate people that showed up threatening violence to stop their speech.

And secondly and more importantly, you comining this rally to pro jihad is without any factual basis and totally indicitive of the problem.

You haven't watched the rally as you have admitted, so who are you to claim that they are the same as a pro jihadi, in other words, they are cheering on the murders that occcured there, or recomending more.

You are aan ignorant person, and are spewing hate out of that ignorance. Show me wehere on rally attendee supported that murder?

You can't because it didn't happen.

In fact, organizers kicked Christian, who was an insane Jill Stein / Bernie Sanders supporting mad man out of their last rally and reported him to authorities.

Yet you allow your political ideology to infect you so much that you just assume this rally is about supporting that murderer.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself. People like you is what makes violence at these rallies inevitable.

You are Truly a supporter of authoritarianism in the sense that Orwell warned us about.

"Free speech is murder". What a joke.

Lol.

Again with words in my mouth. The terrorist parroted their rhetoric and here they are. I've said little more than that.

If a person can't see the problem with that, they are an insensitive tool

And you are parroting the rhetoric of people that have beat innocent conservatives at rallies.

So I guess I can assume you have a bike lock ready to smash over my head in the name of tolerance, right?

Hah! Good lord, you are so dramatic. Grow up and stop picking on me.

I'm sorry for pointing out your logical inconsistency and ignorance of the issue.

I will leave you alone to be outraged about people wanting to practice free speech.

Yes, I'm totally out of line.

Two people were murdered blocks away from my house, on the same train and route I take to work. The group he attended rallies of and shares rhetoric with, hold a rally in the same city, a week later.

And I'm an "outraged liberal" for thinking that's in poor taste.

get bent

So what did you want?

You to come on ATS, make one thread and post on another about how these people are insensitive jerks for continuing to hold their free speech rally, and everyone had to either agree with you or not comment?

I am sorry that you are so affected by people dying in your community. I too am sad that this murder occurred.

But to act as if this grief allows you to have impunity from someone questioning your posts is absurd.

You have posts not a week after the Manchester attack talking about how all religion can lead to violence, and how Israel is just as bad.

HOW DARE YOU!!!! Children were killed, and you were so insensitive to those children, their families, and the people that live in the UK that you came on here spouting of excuses and belittling their suffering.

But those deaths don't matter, because they weren't in your town.

See you can question people grieving over that, but you are special, we all have to let you grief and anyone who questions your posts is horrible, because you are grieving.

I am a little annoyed about that one guy making this political when it's truly a circumstantial issue (doesn't matter what the rally is about; it was fuel for the murderer).

Which comes back again to a mosque attended by an attacker holding services after the London attack. There is the same argument to be made about fuel for murder. The connection is about at close. These people attended events which put them into contact with whatever fringe group convinced them to commits acts of violence.

So should they postpone prayer at the mosque and instead have people pray at home? It has nothing to do with politics, just perspective. I think this issue here is that you disagree with this group and so, because of that, you think differently of them.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha

No. I don't think so.

Not unless it can be proven the actions of this person were directly incited by the people organizing the rally ... as in they paid him to do it or something as blatant.

I mean really. Why aren't you upset at Ariane Grande for holding her concert tonight? A bunch of kids were blown up at her last one and just not even 24 hours ago, a bunch more people were stabbed. Don't you think it's insensitive to the people touched by the violence at her last event?

Were the terrorists die-hard Ariane Grande fans?

This guy was a die-hard fan of "free speech" and repeated the things they said, not to mention having attended their rally before.

Again, this is why I used the Pony analogy.

I'm not saying these free speech people are spouting hate nor intentionally inspiring terrorism. My ONLY point was that they are indisputably connected and this timing was horrible.

The organizers could have said "Considering the recent events in Portland, we're going to reconvene our free speech awesomeness in August". But they didn't. In fact, an organizer claimed it was "open season on anti-fa".

They showed up looking for a fight and, unfortunately, people here are angry, hurt, and willing to oblige. It sucks. This is why I don't like it. It could have easily, and gracefully, been prevented.

So wait, you think because some deranged lunatic killed people while yelling about free speech, nobody should have a free speech rally for an indeterminate amount of time?

That is absolutely insane.

So if someone kills or attacks someone in the name of tolerance, how long must we wait until we have rallies about tolerance?

a reply to: Abysha

You are drawing a false equivalence right out of the box.

It's almost as if you don't believe that what they are doing is protected by the right to free speech. He did not do what he did in the name of free speech.

I thought he was a die-hard Bernie supporter and some kind of white nationalist or something strange like that.

He did not jump up and shoot people screaming "FREE SPEECH!" or am I missing something entirely about this story? The terrorists we are talking about usually *do* jump in screaming something like "Allahu Akbar" so as to leave no doubts who or what they are committing their acts in the name of.

So as far as I know, these people are holding their rally to speak on a number of subjects they feel are openly censored by society as a whole. Do you deny that? I don't see how you can considering you seem to be all about censoring those topics on a number of different threads.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: Grambler

I haven't watched it yet. I'm in domestic princess mode right now, chatting between chores.

The content of this particular rally isn't the offense. It's the fact they held it knowing what an influence they had on that terrorist.

What hogwash. No matter when they held the rally there would be protests.

I'm so sick of worthless rally/counter-protest events. The people running both sides should just plan them together at this point. Without each other to feed on the press dries up. The press only attends because they hope these events turn violent.

Of course there would be protests. Becauthat, theye don't like that sort of extremism here. The speaker said, leading up to this rally, that it's "open season on antifa". Why would any liberal-minded populace think it's a great idea to have their kind of rhetoric spewed on our public shared-space?

But this one is purposefully insensitive and intentionally aggressive. They came here to pick a fight and rub salt in wounds, knowing they could have rescheduled but didn't.

So yes, it would have been protested under normal circumstances but no, people like me who are not activists wouldn't be getting involved like they are today. People are sad, hurt, and angry. This rally is seen as nothing more than a giant middle finger to those still grieving.

So antifa repeatedly is violent at conservative rallies = no big deal to you.

In response, a conservative guy says something stupid - outrage from you.

If you would have watched, you would see one of the rally holders from the last rally said he reported that Christian guy to authorities and kicked him out of the rally last time.

So to you, how long must a free speech rally be held off until it would be acceptable?

And again, its telling that you have never once made a thread about BLM stopping after cops have been killed, or anti trump protests after a handicap boy was tortured.

I've never once lived in one of those cities.

Quit questioning my motives. If this hhappened in your town by some jihad terrorist and you thought the pro-jihad rally held the following week was in poor taste, I wouldn't be telling you that your attention isn't equally applied among all headlines.

Fist I would defend their right to have that rally, and even if I hated what they were saying, I would hate people that showed up threatening violence to stop their speech.

And secondly and more importantly, you comining this rally to pro jihad is without any factual basis and totally indicitive of the problem.

You haven't watched the rally as you have admitted, so who are you to claim that they are the same as a pro jihadi, in other words, they are cheering on the murders that occcured there, or recomending more.

You are aan ignorant person, and are spewing hate out of that ignorance. Show me wehere on rally attendee supported that murder?

You can't because it didn't happen.

In fact, organizers kicked Christian, who was an insane Jill Stein / Bernie Sanders supporting mad man out of their last rally and reported him to authorities.

Yet you allow your political ideology to infect you so much that you just assume this rally is about supporting that murderer.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself. People like you is what makes violence at these rallies inevitable.

You are Truly a supporter of authoritarianism in the sense that Orwell warned us about.

"Free speech is murder". What a joke.

Lol.

Again with words in my mouth. The terrorist parroted their rhetoric and here they are. I've said little more than that.

If a person can't see the problem with that, they are an insensitive tool

And you are parroting the rhetoric of people that have beat innocent conservatives at rallies.

So I guess I can assume you have a bike lock ready to smash over my head in the name of tolerance, right?

Hah! Good lord, you are so dramatic. Grow up and stop picking on me.

I'm sorry for pointing out your logical inconsistency and ignorance of the issue.

I will leave you alone to be outraged about people wanting to practice free speech.

Yes, I'm totally out of line.

Two people were murdered blocks away from my house, on the same train and route I take to work. The group he attended rallies of and shares rhetoric with, hold a rally in the same city, a week later.

And I'm an "outraged liberal" for thinking that's in poor taste.

get bent

So what did you want?

You to come on ATS, make one thread and post on another about how these people are insensitive jerks for continuing to hold their free speech rally, and everyone had to either agree with you or not comment?

I am sorry that you are so affected by people dying in your community. I too am sad that this murder occurred.

But to act as if this grief allows you to have impunity from someone questioning your posts is absurd.

You have posts not a week after the Manchester attack talking about how all religion can lead to violence, and how Israel is just as bad.

HOW DARE YOU!!!! Children were killed, and you were so insensitive to those children, their families, and the people that live in the UK that you came on here spouting of excuses and belittling their suffering.

But those deaths don't matter, because they weren't in your town.

See you can question people grieving over that, but you are special, we all have to let you grief and anyone who questions your posts is horrible, because you are grieving.

I am a little annoyed about that one guy making this political when it's truly a circumstantial issue (doesn't matter what the rally is about; it was fuel for the murderer).

Which comes back again to a mosque attended by an attacker holding services after the London attack. There is the same argument to be made about fuel for murder. The connection is about at close. These people attended events which put them into contact with whatever fringe group convinced them to commits acts of violence.

So should they postpone prayer at the mosque and instead have people pray at home? It has nothing to do with politics, just perspective. I think this issue here is that you disagree with this group and so, because of that, you think differently of them.

Was it a rally? In public? Were they spouting the same rhetoric as the terrorists?

And, for the record, I didn't comment on any prayer mosque. My point in that thread was irrelevant to that.

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: Abysha

This guy was a die-hard fan of "free speech" and repeated the things they said, not to mention having attended their rally before.

Again, this is why I used the Pony analogy.

Those guys were die-hard fans of "Mohammad" and repeated the things he said, not to mention having attended those mosques many times before.

So does that now put it in perspective? I just literally made the same statement to justify the mosques shutting down for a while. Does it seem right?

Nevermind what they said about antifa, they were going to be there and all these groups have been trading barbs for quite some time.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha

No. I don't think so.

Not unless it can be proven the actions of this person were directly incited by the people organizing the rally ... as in they paid him to do it or something as blatant.

I mean really. Why aren't you upset at Ariane Grande for holding her concert tonight? A bunch of kids were blown up at her last one and just not even 24 hours ago, a bunch more people were stabbed. Don't you think it's insensitive to the people touched by the violence at her last event?

Were the terrorists die-hard Ariane Grande fans?

This guy was a die-hard fan of "free speech" and repeated the things they said, not to mention having attended their rally before.

Again, this is why I used the Pony analogy.

I'm not saying these free speech people are spouting hate nor intentionally inspiring terrorism. My ONLY point was that they are indisputably connected and this timing was horrible.

The organizers could have said "Considering the recent events in Portland, we're going to reconvene our free speech awesomeness in August". But they didn't. In fact, an organizer claimed it was "open season on anti-fa".

They showed up looking for a fight and, unfortunately, people here are angry, hurt, and willing to oblige. It sucks. This is why I don't like it. It could have easily, and gracefully, been prevented.

So if someone kills or attacks someone in the name of tolerance, how long must we wait until we have rallies about tolerance?

Over a week. Especially if it was attended by the terrorist before.

Don't care what anyone says.

I'm hard of hearing anyway.


But dammit, they have a right to say what they want!

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: Abysha

This guy was a die-hard fan of "free speech" and repeated the things they said, not to mention having attended their rally before.

Again, this is why I used the Pony analogy.

Those guys were die-hard fans of "Mohammad" and repeated the things he said, not to mention having attended those mosques many times before.

So does that now put it in perspective? I just literally made the same statement to justify the mosques shutting down for a while. Does it seem right?

Nevermind what they said about antifa, they were going to be there and all these groups have been trading barbs for quite some time.

Ok... I actually don't remember defending any Islamic rallies in that city but, let's say I did. Let's say I did and you convinced me to not be so one-sided.

Does that change the situation? Are you saying you aren't changing your stance that this is a bad idea to hold this rally?

Why does my supposed hypocrisy keep you from seeing that? If I were to see your side, would you see mine? Does my hypothetical hypocrisy absolve you of yours?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha

No. I don't think so.

Not unless it can be proven the actions of this person were directly incited by the people organizing the rally ... as in they paid him to do it or something as blatant.

I mean really. Why aren't you upset at Ariane Grande for holding her concert tonight? A bunch of kids were blown up at her last one and just not even 24 hours ago, a bunch more people were stabbed. Don't you think it's insensitive to the people touched by the violence at her last event?

Were the terrorists die-hard Ariane Grande fans?

This guy was a die-hard fan of "free speech" and repeated the things they said, not to mention having attended their rally before.

Again, this is why I used the Pony analogy.

I'm not saying these free speech people are spouting hate nor intentionally inspiring terrorism. My ONLY point was that they are indisputably connected and this timing was horrible.

The organizers could have said "Considering the recent events in Portland, we're going to reconvene our free speech awesomeness in August". But they didn't. In fact, an organizer claimed it was "open season on anti-fa".

They showed up looking for a fight and, unfortunately, people here are angry, hurt, and willing to oblige. It sucks. This is why I don't like it. It could have easily, and gracefully, been prevented.

So wait, you think because some deranged lunatic killed people while yelling about free speech, nobody should have a free speech rally for an indeterminate amount of time?

That is absolutely insane.

So if someone kills or attacks someone in the name of tolerance, how long must we wait until we have rallies about tolerance?

I put "free speech" in quotes for a reason. He wasn't talking about it in an abstract sense; he was specifically talking in terms influenced by these guys in Portland right now.

Please don't assume that my criticism of their decision to be here is criticism of their ideology. If you noticed, I haven't once made any statements about what they believe.

Like I said earlier, this could have been about Ponies and it wouldn't have changed my opinion.

a reply to: Abysha

What you are doing is practicing guilt by association.

This has to be looked at differently. If they postpone their rally it would be like admitting that they in some way influenced the murder. Regardless if they did or didn't, it makes them look bad. So it's more posturing then insensitivity. Also maybe financial who knows.

Long story short they don't want to be associated with murders.

a reply to: Abysha

So, if you are saying he was influenced by the ideas being spoken at this rally and thus it should not be held ...

Then it should logically follow that no mosque should hold prayer services for a period of days after a terror attack, particularly if one of their parishoners (don't know the Muslim term) happened to be one of the attackers, because it should be clear that the ideas preached therein influenced the attacker to do what he did.

And yet you state several times that you don't believe this.

So where is your intellectual consistency?

originally posted by: DiaJax
This has to be looked at differently. If they postpone their rally it would be like admitting that they in some way influenced the murder. Regardless if they did or didn't, it makes them look bad. So it's more posturing then insensitivity. Also maybe financial who knows.

Long story short they don't want to be associated with murders.

I am betting there is a good amount of financial involved too.

I bet they had to get a bunch of permits to hold the rally and those cannot have been cheap.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha

So, if you are saying he was influenced by the ideas being spoken at this rally and thus it should not be held ...

Then it should logically follow that no mosque should hold prayer services for a period of days after a terror attack, particularly if one of their parishoners (don't know the Muslim term) happened to be one of the attackers, because it should be clear that the ideas preached therein influenced the attacker to do what he did.

And yet you state several times that you don't believe this.

So where is your intellectual consistency?

No, I'm saying no mosque should hold a rally in that city a week after the attack.

I'm not being inconsistent. If the "anti-Muslim free speech" rhetoric was replaced with "pro-Muslim Shariah" rhetoric, I would have been just as disappointed by that mosque holding a rally right now.

Guess who started getting violent, attacking police, and was cleared out of an area.

ANTIFA.

I know, shocker.

originally posted by: stosh64
Guess who started getting violent, attacking police, and was cleared out of an area.

ANTIFA.

I know, shocker.

They were promised juice boxes.

There were no juice boxes.

Justified.

originally posted by: DiaJax
This has to be looked at differently. If they postpone their rally it would be like admitting that they in some way influenced the murder. Regardless if they did or didn't, it makes them look bad. So it's more posturing then insensitivity. Also maybe financial who knows.

Long story short they don't want to be associated with murders.

The connection is fact. It's documented, acknowledged, and indisputable.

If they had given a press release saying "In light of the recent events, we get it. We'll postpone until August. That maniac happened to like what we say in the same way several maniacs in the past liked what atheists and communists have to say so we get it. Everybody has "that fan" and we won't be in the area until you all have time to heal".

I guarantee you, they would have garnered a little respect and nobody would be accusing them of picking a fight right now.