Genome Data finds Ancient Egyptians closely related to Neolithic Europeans.

This recent study has suggested that the ancient Egyptians were closely related to the Neolithic Anatolians and early Europeans of the Balkans, which is not so surprising suggesting that those populations expanded and migrated down the Levant into Egypt, that it was not simply a case of cultural transmission that saw the Neolithic arrive in Egypt.

The study found that ancient Egyptians were most closely related to ancient populations in the Levant, and were also closely related to Neolithic populations from the Anatolian Peninsula and Europe

Genome Data from Egyptian Mummies.

This seems to be pretty much fatal for the Afrocentrism perspective;

The data shows that modern Egyptians share approximately 8% more ancestry on the nuclear level with Sub-Saharan African populations than with ancient Egyptians. "This suggests that an increase in Sub-Saharan African gene flow into Egypt occurred within the last 1,500 years,"

Also i've been looking more into how the Bronze Age arrived into ancient Egypt from a proposed route through the Persian Gulf and around the Arabian peninsula through the Red Sea, that hypothesis requires staging posts established in Yemen and i've been looking into that accordingly. It appears there is evidence for early transitional copper/bronze age sites in Yemen at the same time as trade contact with the Uruk sphere begins in Egypt, mid 4th millenium BC, in fact this begins on the coastal region and settlements are established inland in the highlands, the bronze age arrives far earlier on the Southern tip of the Arabain peninsula than in the North, in fact 2,000 years earlier, and this leads on to the Sabean culture.

The excavation results confirm that the highland Bronze Age patterns of architecture and pottery use were firmly in place already by the final quarter of the 4th millennium BC

Quite clearly agriculture depended on a typically Near Eastem suite of crops - 6-row barley, bread wheat, lentils, and other legumes - which was introduced to the Yemeni highlands by the last quarter ofthe 4th millennium BC.

Prehistoric agriculture in Highland Yemen

A cache of copper/bronze tools were discovered beneath a standing stone in coastal Yemen which suggested that at a certain point a stone age culture and early bronze age were in co-existence, the tools were offered as a foundation deposit;

The bulk of the metal objects analysed here come from the commemorative setting of a group of standing stones. They were excavated from the sandy matrix beneath the stones, consisting of an intact cache of copper alloy tools and an obsidian core

Copper hoard from Megalithic site

There is considered to have been a trading network in the Red sea dating back even to the 6th millenium BC between Yemen and Africa primarily in obsidian, in fact it's considered the megaliths could have been brought from Africa;

The presence of large pillars of granite and basalt likewise imply considerable maritime or overland movement and the existence of sophisticated transportation technologies. Source characterization4 of the large amounts of obsidian found in the main study area alludes to an African origin. In addition, the highest densities of obsidian were concentrated along the smaller coastal sites and the larger coastal settlements

Standing stones of Tihama

The onset of the Megalithic construction and importing of megaliths from Africa curiously seems to coincide with the arrival of bronze age technologies and the establishment of sites in the Highlands practising sophisticated Near Eastern agriculture, this in conjunction with all sorts of increased activities might simply indicate that the indigenous population were energized through contact.

In the mid-fourth millennium BC, the emergence of the first major state-level civilizations of the Old World in a number of regions bordering the Arabian peninsula impacted upon the development of maritime activity in the region

Egyptian Maritime trade appears to date back to the Naqada I period (ca. 4000– 3500 BC), and to have become well established by the Naqada II period (3500–3200 BC).

The Egyptians travelled to the Red Sea via the Wadi Hammamat, a desert corridor where depictions of ships have been identified.

Early Maritime contact in the Arabian peninsula

There's increasing evidence then that the Bronze age arrived in Egypt the long way around through the Red Sea and that Yemen was a staging post, the arrival of the Neolithic in comparison a simpler affair, they just migrated South overland.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

As the article says, "Egyptian mummies dating from approximately 1400 BCE to 400 CE," This is quite different than studying mummies from, say, 2000 BC... and as we've discussed, the Naqada culture goes back to 3500 BC.

The findings are more in line with saying "most Americans have European genes."

While true, this does not really look at the DNA of the most ancient Americans... the Native American tribes.

a reply to: Byrd

If the population remained pretty much the same over that given period i'm not aware of any suggestion things would have been radically different 500 years previously, or even 2,000 years previously, in fact by the comparative nature of the results that population basis has to relate back to the Neolithic period because the situation in the Levant had changed by 1,500 BC to a majority Semitic population.

I remember there was a genetic-ancestry company called iGENEA that revealed the Y-DNA profile of Tutankhamun to be European based on a screenshot from a documentary back in 2011.

from their own website: iGENEA.com

In the year 2009 extended DNA-tests had been carried out with the mummy of Tutankamun and other members for his family. These have only partially been published in February 2010. Despite several demands, the results of the Y-DNA tests have been shut away.


iGENEA was able to reconstruct the Y-DNA profile of Tutankhamun, his father Akhenaten and his grandfather Amenhotep III with the help of a recording of the Discovery Channel. The astonishing result:

Tutankhamun belongs to the haplogroup R1b1a2, which more than 50% of all men in Western Europe belong to.

The haplogroup R1b1a2 arose about 9.500 years ago in the surrounding area of the Black Sea. The migration of this haplogroup into Europe started at the earliest with the spread of agriculture since 7.000 BC. It is ver probable that it is also connected to the Indoeuropeans who spread over Europe a little later in several waves of migrations.

In Egypt the contingent of this haplogroup is below 1% and partially caused by european immigration during the last 2.000 years.
Tutankhamun had been the last Pharao of the 18th dynasty and ruled from about 1.332 until 1.323 BC. His paternal lineage begins with Pharao Thutmose I. who ruled from about 1.504 until 1.492 BC.

After iGENEA made this claim Egyptian authorities remained silent , the company also received a lot of criticism but now it seems they were right all along.

a reply to: ancienthistorian

Yes there was shared common ancestry with the early proto-European genome evidenced there also, the basis was probably similar to the Hattic population of Anatolia, there is also the potential for Hurrian influence on the Royal lines at the onset of the Bronze age through the Uruk expansion era, in fact also a basis for Hathor and Horus perhaps as Tutelary Deities and Royalty.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: ancienthistorian

Yes there was shared common ancestry with the early proto-European genome evidenced there also, the basis was probably similar to the Hattic population of Anatolia, there is also the potential for Hurrian influence on the Royal lines at the onset of the Bronze age through the Uruk expansion era, in fact also a basis for Hathor and Horus perhaps as Tutelary Deities and Royalty.

Yes or perhaps the ancient Hittites or Phoenicians

Its a shot in the back side yes, but perhaps not fatal for Afrocentrism perspective.

If egypt was on the decline after Ramesses III death in 1153 BC (Enemies had Iron weapons against Egypts inferior copper weapons). Some 200 Years before the first DNA samples were taken. Is it not possible that Egypt adopted an open borders policy to avert invasion, with migrants flocking to the same suburbs/towns as they tend to do in multi-cultural countries today.

So if Abusir el-Meleq slave trade was managed by foreigners then Abusir el-Meleq could have been like a China-town of soughts, having more international DNA, than the remainder of the general population.

I would like to see DNA tests from multiple locations dating back to say 1200 BC.

originally posted by: Byrd
a reply to: Kantzveldt

As the article says, "Egyptian mummies dating from approximately 1400 BCE to 400 CE," This is quite different than studying mummies from, say, 2000 BC... and as we've discussed, the Naqada culture goes back to 3500 BC.

The findings are more in line with saying "most Americans have European genes."

While true, this does not really look at the DNA of the most ancient Americans... the Native American tribes.

Quite true, for one the testing was done in Fayum where the results would be predictable and what took place between 1400 to 400 B.C ???
Hyksos
Libyans
Assyrians
Kush ites
Persians
Greeks.
The study did not include other areas of Egypt, like say Upper Egypt which before the Greeks the bulk of the population lived, matter of fact in my thread about combs Sally Ann Aston and others at the Fitz William Museum pointed out in the use of Afro combs or picks that the combs began to change that may reflect changes in hair type which fits nicely between those dates.
Origins Of The Afro Comb.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

If the population remained pretty much the same over that given period i'm not aware of any suggestion things would have been radically different 500 years previously, or even 2,000 years previously, in fact by the comparative nature of the results that population basis has to relate back to the Neolithic period because the situation in the Levant had changed by 1,500 BC to a majority Semitic population.

Oh, heavens yes there were changes that would make it different. Egypt had gone through the Middle Kingdom expansionist period and was at the end of the Second Intermediate Period. Soon the pharaohs we know best would take center stage.

Egypt began its expansioninst activities early, and the Middle Kingdom was a period of both trade and warfare, with Egypt now having standing armies that included Nubians and others -- as well as a Navy.

That meant contact with and an influx of other people beyond their immediate neighbors (Canaan, Libya, etc). So yes there was a change and it should be seen in this context.

a reply to: ancienthistorian

Actually, that had long been debunked , what happened was those guys zeroed in on a controlled test for the lab techs they pulled from a documentary,

I am unable to post links right now, but you could Goole live science..King Tut Related to Half of European Men?? Maybe not.
That's the actual title.
That the Amarna dynasty. Results had them closely related to East and Great Lakes Africans, next tropical west Africans, trace amount of
west Asians, which would make a heck of a lot more sense.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: ancienthistorian

Actually, that had long been debunked , what happened was those guys zeroed in on a controlled test for the lab techs they pulled from a documentary,

I am unable to post links right now, but you could Goole live science..King Tut Related to Half of European Men?? Maybe not.
That's the actual title.
That the Amarna dynasty. Results had them closely related to East and Great Lakes Africans, next tropical west Africans, trace amount of
west Asians, which would make a heck of a lot more sense.

I could't find the video but thanks for clearing that out.

a reply to: Byrd

Expansionist policies don't change the genetic make up of the general upper tier of society it just makes them richer...

Shouldn't be a shock to anyone. The Regyptian elite actively enslaved ethnic peoples.

Whites have always been management material. Thats putting it nicely.


(and anyone who ever scribbled about reptilians was certainly ethnic.)

So what equals Egypt? It's not the originals. So the ruling caste of conquerors defines a people group. If future archeologists run across Obama campaign material 100 years from now, I suppose that rewrites hisstory again? Where some real life Muslim invented America instead of a fiction Cristobal Colon character?

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

Expansionist policies don't change the genetic make up of the general upper tier of society it just makes them richer...

Actually, it does - remember all the political marriages in Europe (to make a more current example.)

And let me cite what the authors themselves had to say (from the article you cited):

The team wanted to determine if the investigated ancient populations were affected at the genetic level by foreign conquest and domination during the time period under study, and compared these populations to modern Egyptian comparative populations. "We wanted to test if the conquest of Alexander the Great and other foreign powers has left a genetic imprint on the ancient Egyptian population," explains Verena Schuenemann, group leader at the University of Tuebingen and one of the lead authors of this study.

The site is, as others noted, near the Fayum. I would expect different percentages from a cluster of mummies found near Thebes and would predict that genetic investigations of mummies up and down Egypt would confirm that they're pretty much "mutts."

a reply to: Byrd

There were long distance marriages at the Dynastic level which could radically alter that Dynasties basis, but the level they've investigated is lower tier than that and not subject to the same criteria, it remained pretty much the same for 1,300 years , there could have been regional variations in Egypt of population basis but the sampling here clearly indicates a long standing basis derived from Neolithic Anatolia as there is no other possibility of such a group arriving at a later date.

There is zero possibility of a supposed original African genetic basis having disappeared and the population replaced by people of the Levant/Anatolia that somehow retained the former culture, the Fayum Portraits from the region actually give clear indication of what that population looked like as they are generally thought to represent native Egyptians.

originally posted by: BigBangWasAnEcho
Shouldn't be a shock to anyone. The Regyptian elite actively enslaved ethnic peoples.

Whites have always been management material. Thats putting it nicely.


(and anyone who ever scribbled about reptilians was certainly ethnic.)

So what equals Egypt? It's not the originals. So the ruling caste of conquerors defines a people group. If future archeologists run across Obama campaign material 100 years from now, I suppose that rewrites hisstory again? Where some real life Muslim invented America instead of a fiction Cristobal Colon character?

Woah there fella, who said anything about them being white, a neolithic Euraisan may not share the same phenotype as moderns, matter of fact the people around the Levant and up to Anatolia now known as Turkey looked like this.

A dancer wearing leopard skin with pepper corn hair similar to a Khoisan or Bushman of southern Africa, note I am not making a case for them being Africans depending on how long they reside in the area makes all the difference regardless of what they looked like.

Brown and black skinned folks Catal Huyuk same era as the above, these are the people that would become European first farmers before white skin developed.

part of the same mural.
Btw the Natufians and folks who created Gobekli Tepe had tropical body plans although some appeared to be cold adapted.
Whites having always been management material, really?? ...tell that to most of history including large chunks of the middle ages.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

There were long distance marriages at the Dynastic level which could radically alter that Dynasties basis, but the level they've investigated is lower tier than that and not subject to the same criteria,

That was actually my point in one of the earlier responses. However, you said there were no long distance interactions and I pointed out that yes this happened.

it remained pretty much the same for 1,300 years , there could have been regional variations in Egypt of population basis but the sampling here clearly indicates a long standing basis derived from Neolithic Anatolia as there is no other possibility of such a group arriving at a later date.

The "neolithic Anatolia" could well have been the Greek influence from the time of Alexander the Great and through his armies that they were trying to assess. Not necessarily within the earlier population.

There is zero possibility of a supposed original African genetic basis having disappeared and the population replaced by people of the Levant/Anatolia that somehow retained the former culture, the Fayum Portraits from the region actually give clear indication of what that population looked like as they are generally thought to represent native Egyptians.

Yes, we agree... but the Fayum Portraits are Greeks and Romans from the Hellenic period (300 BC and later... much later.) They are "native Egyptians" in the sense that they were born in Egypt but culturally they are Greek an Roman.

a reply to: Byrd

The Fayum portraits show evidence for Greco-Romano cultural style and influence but the whole point of the Genetic sampling was to identify whether those individuals represented still constituted the original Egyptian population basis and the evidence demonstrated that they did, and culturally they are still within the context of Egyptian religion which has adapted to superior innovations in creating and preserving the likeness of the individual.

vinca invented copper smelting and black-topped pttery. one of those skills probably allowed a man to travel.

originally posted by: Parta
vinca invented copper smelting and black-topped pttery. one of those skills probably allowed a man to travel.

Could you expand more on the Black topped pottery, just want to make sure where you are coming from with that in terms of the Nile Valley complex which Kantzveldt is bent on putting on ignore.