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Plot holes in the bible and what the motivation for it would be

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posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:39 PM
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a reply to: DiaJax


Amazing a thread this long simply demonstrating stupidity and ignorance of the subject. How about boning up and study for a few year rather than demonstrating a clear lack of qualification to discuss the subject matter with any intelligence.




posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:42 PM
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originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: DiaJax


Amazing a thread this long simply demonstrating stupidity and ignorance of the subject. How about boning up and study for a few year rather than demonstrating a clear lack of qualification to discuss the subject matter with any intelligence.



how about you give us a good example of discussing the subject with intelligence by actually addressing the points made and refuting them reasonably.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:48 PM
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originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: TzarChasm

What cracks then? This would be interesting to discuss wouldn't you think?

Though I must admit insulting me before we're even started a chat?

Tells me you might be worried.

peace



Its hard to understand how the idea that an almighty powerful being, the creator being, had His son come out of the sprit world and become a man in the material world and die like a scape goat, then resurrect..........the story is so compelling on first hearing as to make one wonder why another would just write it off as malarkey.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 07:49 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: DiaJax


Amazing a thread this long simply demonstrating stupidity and ignorance of the subject. How about boning up and study for a few year rather than demonstrating a clear lack of qualification to discuss the subject matter with any intelligence.



how about you give us a good example of discussing the subject with intelligence by actually addressing the points made and refuting them reasonably.



Well one of your posts on the last page demonstrate why this approach is not possible.



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 08:14 PM
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a reply to: Logarock

I have to admit. Take the 'Jesus' scenario, make him a worldly super hero, have opposing forces gather, stick in a air ship or two of some kind and people would be eating up the story of 'TRUTH' - in every way.

But say the name Jesus - and most cover their ears with their hands and start blabbering 'I can't hear you I can't hear you'!

peace



posted on Jun, 9 2017 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: Logarock

By your statement it suggests you have some insight that I do not. Care to share?



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 07:07 AM
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originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: Logarock

I have to admit. Take the 'Jesus' scenario, make him a worldly super hero, have opposing forces gather, stick in a air ship or two of some kind and people would be eating up the story of 'TRUTH' - in every way.

But say the name Jesus - and most cover their ears with their hands and start blabbering 'I can't hear you I can't hear you'!

peace


The best superheroes are works of fiction. And then there are average everyday people whom just do what they can and never get any thanks or credit for it. Those guys are pretty cool too. And then you have Jesus. Gave up a weekend for our sins and won't let us forget it for even a second. Insists we sing about it every Sunday. Always needs money even though he can turn water into wine. Pretends to be humble but holds it against us when we can't be perfect. Don't bother correcting people when they quote him out of context or misattribute verses or do horrible things in his name. And can't be bothered to save lives when it actually counts. Where was Jesus during newtown or aurora or 9/11? Does the guy in the video talk about that? I guess the free will of bad people is worth more than the innocence of their victims. Thanks a lot Jesus.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: silo13


So you're asking me if I have any proof/support of these views without using the Bible?

No - why go to something else when you have the authority.

How has this authority been established? By the say-so of the authority itself?

That may be good enough for fellow believers, but it provides no support for your claims and gives no reason for anyone who is not of your faith to accept what you say. You are doomed to preach only to the converted.


I understand your question and in another conversation I would salute it

Evidence of a double standard. If I were in your position I should be very concerned for my general moral health.

*



Or did you mean something else - like proof the Bible was written by God? Or holds truth?

It obviously wasn’t written by God, but by a succession of men, all fallible and greatly prone to self-contradiction. As for truth, the Bible holds some, but also much error, numerous egregious falsehoods and much that is evil and cruel.


Even muslims believe Hagar's son is their forefather - so why would such a religion of peace (*cough choke*) believe in something that isn't true?

What in the world makes you believe that I would regard the claims of the Qu’ran with any more credulity than those of the Bible? I grew out of religion many years ago, although it continues to fascinate me as a subject of inquiry.


edit on 10/6/17 by Astyanax because: of error.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 12:10 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti


Religion is like life, you have a choice between following good or evil, nobody is all one or all the other.

Correct and well observed.


Religion is inherently harmless, a philosophical ideology with a real God.

Incorrect. Religion is very dangerous, to believers and unbelievers alike. The tenets of the faith do not matter. Faith itself is the problem.

I realize you cannot accept this, any more than silo13 will accept that the Bible is full of false claims and fiction. Faith itself prevents you from seeing what is clearly evident to the unbeliever. It was ever so, and this, too, is one of the evils of religion.


Religious people are usually salt of the Earth types.

This is not what I see. I agree with your first observation: religion is like life. It is as big as life. Many rich, powerful and cultivated people are deeply religious, as are people of every station. Some of the wickedest people I have met have been deeply religious.

Religion does not appeal only to good people. Neither does religion necessarily make people better.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

I have no idea why you would belive these questions to be selfish?

What?

SMH

peace



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 12:42 PM
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Ok I am moving on.

Or going back actually to Isaac to see if he was 30 y.o according to the Bible at the time and to see if Abraham (pbut) knew he was being tested.


Genesis 22:10

Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife TO KILL HIS SON.


The angel of the Lord stops him and says:

"Abraham"...." Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him;for I now know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son from me."


That ends that debate, Abraham did not know what was happening and was going to kill his son.


I was mistaken about that being why his name was changed, that was when Hagar got pregnant in 15.

But I have just proven false what Silo13 claimed about Abraham not actually going to kill Isaac because he knew.

All that's left is to say Genesis 22 tell the "Sacrifice of Isaac" tale.


Feel free to show me where it says "Isaac...30 years old."

Otherwise Salaam.
edit on 10-6-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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And it's funny too.

Silo13 claimed he absolutely refuted me with scripture, but hasn't, and I said so, gave him a chance to admit it.

Two claims he made I took issue with and proved one claim is refuted by the Bible and the other is not supported by it AT BEST.

So any claims to have refuted my objection to these 2 specific allegations are preposterous, that it was done using scripture is a plain falsehood.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti

the fact of the narrative remains that this god person thing figured that punking abraham by bringing him this close to killing his own son would make a good test of dedication and moral fiber. why not just force him this close to sticking that knife in his own eye to make a point? i guess it was really gratifying to know he could make abraham willing to kill his own family of his own choice. gotta really break a man to make that happen.


originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: TzarChasm

I have no idea why you would belive these questions to be selfish?

What?

SMH

peace



A correct world view that will fulfill you as a person must address these 4 questions.

Origin - How did I get here?

Meaning - Why am I here?

Morality - How do I define good and evil?

Destiny - What happens to me after death?


because those questions imply that your motives are egocentric. the first thing you wonder about is "what do i get out of this?" and thats what those questions are engineered to answer. the better questions would be:

origin - where did this world come from?

morality - how is the world affected by me?

meaning - what should the world look like when i am done?

i took out the destiny question because destiny and meaning are pretty much synonymous. they are both a product of what you do and an indicator of what you are going to be. but yes, these are better questions. they are less concerned with reward and more concerned with impact. what you make and leave behind as opposed to what you are getting for being a good little human. much less selfish.

edit on 10-6-2017 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: Disturbinatti

You gave me a list of three or four things you said were not in the bible.

I proved by chapter and verse that in fact they are.

You can't admit when you're wrong?

Fine - You've proven you have no credibility.

So find someone else to BS.

It’s not worth my time to have a discussion with someone lacking honor.

"Victoriously debates" - *face palm* - delusional, completely delusional.

peace



Looking back, Silo13, does it still seem like you proved "with chapter and verse" what I refuted with it just now?

It was 2 issues, not 4.

And I refuted YOU book, chapter, verse and by quote.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm


I am only debating with Silo the two claims he made that I proved are false.

I have no issue with you.


If you claim Abraham (pbuh) wasn't going to kill Isaac or that Isaac was 30 and that you proved it using the Bible when I proved otherwise just now, I will have an issue.

Because both are innovations, Abraham was going to kill Isaac, that's fundamental, and 30 years old isn't said in chapter 22, Isaac's age is unknown.

Yet silo13 "knows" he was "30."

It's pastors lying to their sheep that causes this trouble of inventing info to make a type for Jesus pbuh, because they are obsessed with the OT "predicting" Jesus pbuh that they go to extremes and...lie.
edit on 10-6-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm


The best superheroes are works of fiction.

Exactly but that was not my point. I’m sure you understand my point - I’ll not be repetitive.


And then you have Jesus. Gave up a weekend for our sins and won't let us forget it for even a second.

Gave up a weekend for our sins? Really? If you believe that you’ve got a lot more to worry about than ATS and your transparent attempts at triggering others.


Micah 7:19b “You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea.”

Because Christ was born, lived a sinless life, died for our sins? He gave His life to make sure your sins would never be remembered.

If you’re feeling guilty? That's self persecution not Christ persecuting you.


Insists we sing about it every Sunday.

This makes me smile.

Christ doesn’t insist we DO anything. The simplicity of His request for eternal life is so simple. Just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Love God and others. From there? Anything you try to DO actually negates God’s gift of grace. It’s like you’re trying to wash away your own sins by doing good works. It’s a slap in the face of Jesus to even think anything you can do could be greater than what He did.


Always needs money even though he can turn water into wine.

The money belongs to God in the first place. He asks us to give Him back His 10%. No more and surely not what some of those TV evangelists would suggest.


Pretends to be humble but holds it against us when we can't be perfect.

He gave His life to remove our sins. Hold them against us? No, lol. To be clear I'm not laughing at you or what you said but the thought of Christ holding things against us. It's night and day to what He does for us. Farther than the East is from the West.


Don't bother correcting people when they quote him out of context or misattribute verses or do horrible things in his name.

He does correct people if they are Christians and are looking for the truth.

People who intentionally quote Him out of context? If their heart is good, well, people make mistakes.

If one was to do the same to gain self glory or financial gain? Any gain for 'self'? That person is in some big trouble. They will be held accountable at a much higher level than others for blaspheming in God’s name.

People do horrible things in His name? It can’t be done. They’re liars. It’s blasphemous. You can do it sure - but there is no truth to it. And the person doing so knows it - or - is doing it in truth for the name of satan trying to discredit God.


And can't be bothered to save lives when it actually counts.

He saves life when it counts the most. We’re here on earth for a time so short it’s not to be fathomed against ETERNITY.

There isn't a man or woman alive who can fathom eternity... Jesus Christ, through His sacrifice, gives this to you as a gift. Not something you have to earn, but as a gift that can never be taken away.



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

Edit to add - I don't know why my reply to you was cut off - here is the rest.



Where was Jesus during newtown or aurora or 9/11?

We’ve told God we don’t want Him and His protection in our homes, (some) churches. Made laws to remove Him from all state(s) school(s) and government(s). What do you expect? He did just what we asked for! So, now you’re going to whine He isn’t there when you need Him?

As for this world? It’s a fallen world. It rains on the just and unjust equally.

If you wanted all that unbiased information you speak of? Why not start looking into all the miracles when God was there?


Does the guy in the video talk about that?

In one of Robert Morris's videos he does. I'm not sure which one but I'd be glad to find it for you.


I guess the free will of bad people is worth more than the innocence of their victims. Thanks a lot Jesus.

Oh and being puppets would be so much nicer... Not.

It's interesting to me your quote:


"I think therefore I am" is misleading. the true fruit of life is "I have done therefore I have been"

When Jesus died He said 'It is finished'.

By your own quote then He did something.

And it's spread for thousands of years to ever corner of the globe - when He did.

So in all respects saying He did nothing or ’didn’t exist’ can't be a truth.

I can tell you what HE DID IN ME. My husband can tell you what he did in his life. As can billions of others.

What HE did.

Thank you Abba!


peace

edit on 4606Saturday201713 by silo13 because: sorting mistake



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: silo13



Hey.

Are you going to admit that you were wrong?

That Abraham WAS going to kill Isaac, as I have proven chapter and verse?

That Isaac's age at the time is unknown because it's not mentioned?

You don't have any choice, unless you ignore me or just don't tell the truth.
edit on 10-6-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: silo13


Gave up a weekend for our sins? Really? If you believe that you’ve got a lot more to worry about than ATS and your transparent attempts at triggering others.


um yeah, really. he didnt exactly stay dead, did he... i can think of a dozen examples of how that qualifies as 'reneging' but i wont insult your intelligence.


Because Christ was born, lived a sinless life, died for our sins? He gave His life to make sure your sins would never be remembered*. If you’re feeling guilty? That's self persecution not Christ persecuting you.


*...as long as you consign your immortal soul to eternal subservience to the almighty yada yada. if you dont, the sacrifice doesnt apply to you.

you forgot the caveat there.


Christ doesn’t insist we DO anything. The simplicity of His request for eternal life is so simple. Just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Love God and others. From there? Anything you try to DO actually negates God’s gift of grace. It’s like you’re trying to wash away your own sins by doing good works. It’s a slap in the face of Jesus to even think anything you can do could be greater than what He did.


what about people who do good works and love their neighbor and plant trees and cut down on carbon emissions and donate blood but dont buy into the whole religion thing? like christians except without the christ.


He gave His life to remove our sins. Hold them against us? No, lol. To be clear I'm not laughing at you or what you said but the thought of Christ holding things against us. It's night and day to what He does for us. Farther than the East is from the West.


the above caveat is a consequence of 'holding stuff against us'. remember, the point is forgiveness. without the whole consigning of the immortal soul etc etc there is no forgiveness. hence a lot of grudge holding.


He does correct people if they are Christians and are looking for the truth.

People who intentionally quote Him out of context? If their heart is good, well, people make mistakes.

If one was to do the same to gain self glory or financial gain? Any gain for 'self'? That person is in some big trouble. They will be held accountable at a much higher level than others for blaspheming in God’s name.

People do horrible things in His name? It can’t be done. They’re liars. It’s blasphemous. You can do it sure - but there is no truth to it. And the person doing so knows it - or - is doing it in truth for the name of satan trying to discredit God.


at least the mortal authorities do something when someone misrepresents the law and encourages others to do so. when was the last time jesus came down and made a solid point about people doing bad stuff by his authority?


He saves life when it counts the most. We’re here on earth for a time so short it’s not to be fathomed against ETERNITY.

There isn't a man or woman alive who can fathom eternity... Jesus Christ, through His sacrifice, gives this to you as a gift. Not something you have to earn, but as a gift that can never be taken away.


...when it counts the most. huh. maybe you ought to explain that one to all of the victims of recent tragedies in paris, boston, colorado, newyork, pennsylvania, etc. or how about the holocaust? pearl harbor? vietnam? any number of other needless massacres where people just didnt believe hard enough? these are what i consider to be "plot holes" in the "modern narrative". examples of where there just wasnt enough divine glory to go around.


We’ve told God we don’t want Him and His protection in our homes, (some) churches. Made laws to remove Him from all state(s) school(s) and government(s). What do you expect? He did just what we asked for! So, now you’re going to whine He isn’t there when you need Him?


you have to ASK to be protected? being saved by god is a favor...thats what benevolence means? i thought it meant he cant help himself. wherever he can be helpful, he steps in because thats what the good guy does.


Oh and being puppets would be so much nicer... Not.


we are already puppets, according to the official narrative. he just humors us with the illusion of freedom. but ultimately what happens is his choice, by action or inaction. its just curious to see where he acts and where he doesnt. theoretically anyway.
edit on 10-6-2017 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2017 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

the fact of the narrative remains that this god person thing figured that punking abraham by bringing him this close to killing his own son would make a good test of dedication and moral fiber. why not just force him this close to sticking that knife in his own eye to make a point?

Abraham knew (as we see in scripture) God was not going to leave his son dead. God had promised him this.

(Thus the verse where Abraham tells the two men he took with Isaac and himself to stay and watch the donkey and ‘we will return’ to you).

Remember Abraham was well over 100. He has a long history of making mistakes and not trusting God only to come back to trusting. Meaning he also had a long history of knowing first hand God would never double-back on a promise.

Abraham had a couple a choices in his head. One God would stay His hand or two God would resurrect HIS SON. Which in the end is what He did. God I mean.

From there we see the absolute similarities between Isaac and Jesus.


Another thing to take into consideration. God knew Abraham would do as he was told.

WE do not. The bible is a living breathing document. God knew in this day, right this moment the readers - WE - would need to see Abraham’s reaction to all this.

It gives us great inspiration for our daily lives.

To know to do what we’re told for the better even if we don’t understand it.

To act on faith, not just say we have it. Even if we think it’s going to hurt.

God will never leave us or forsake us in times of trouble.

I could go on and on. Don't want to bore you.

As for those who say ‘How could God test his people with such horrific things?’

Try reading the book of Job. Ouch!

God tests who He loves. Another promise we can hold onto when we are being tested. At the moment of our greatest test? We receive the greatest love.

peace



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