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Plot holes in the bible and what the motivation for it would be

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posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 12:57 AM
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a reply to: silo13


I'm convinced this is what life would have been like if we'd not choosen to sin. Now, living in this 'fallen' world, yes we have free will but we also have to pay the consequences for our actions.

That’s backwards, I’m afraid. In fact, if God had set things up like that, sin could not possibly exist.


Many don't like the use of the collective 'we' when speaking of the first sin in Eden - all I can say to that is too bad. It is what it is.

What it is, is Original Sin. Another made-up doctrine to absolve God of the blame for the evils of Creation and put them all on humankind.

PHUH means 'peace be unto him’ or ‘peace be upon him’, and is used by Muslims as a conventional honorific when mentioning the name of the Prophet Muhammed. Disturbinatti applies it more widely: he honours every prophet he mentions with it.




posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 03:05 AM
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Here's a question that still relates to theme of the thread and might give more information on the conflict between the two sections.

This is the root of the God not being able to lie and being omnipotent problem. It states these in NT but "conflicts" with the stories in OT.

Why was the NT written?

It's as if God of OT and God of NT are two separate entities. (TTT)

Forgive my ignorance, I know very little about NT. OT is a historical allegory so I assume then NT is also a historical allegory.

Or does it have a different role in the bible?
edit on 861717 by DiaJax because: It's not a post unless you edit



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 07:01 AM
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a reply to: DiaJax



The New Testament was written by Romans who wanted to make a religion of Paul's epistles and his human sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin doctrine, vicarious atonement and faith alone not works of righteousness lead to salvation.

They would have been written in Aramaic or Syriac if really by Judahites in Asia, that they were written to invent a new religion is obvious.

It's the ultimate insult.

Teach paganism in the name of a Torah observant Jew and the Messiah pbuh, insult the Law of Moses and Torah, and contradict everything he taught in Paul's epistles, marginalize his real disciples and declare their descendants the Nazarene and Ebionites heretics for being Jewish and believing in Yeshua, loyal to James.

The Roman Gospels are anonymous and worthless​ as history.



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 07:13 AM
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originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: Disturbinatti

PBUH?

Can't go anywhere with this until I know what that means.

peace


That important??

"Peace be unto him."

You say it after mentioning most Prophets (pbut).

Multiple is them.

It's something almost every Muslim does out of respect for God's Messengers, speaking or writing.

I am surprised you aren't aware. It is no big deal I suppose I am unaware of how unaware people are when it comes to Islam.

Unfortunate too because​ it doesn't stop them, not you as far as I know but people, from lying, slandering and repeating lies unvetted lies, as fact.

Because ignorance and intolerance are coming back strong. It's a religion so you can hate it without being called racist.

Religio-racist is the term I use, because Islam isn't the only phobia people have about religion, Jews are hated too.

anti-Semitism is a hatred of Semites.

Arabs, Mesopotamians, Lebanese, others are Semites too.



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 07:57 AM
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originally posted by: DiaJax
Here's a question that still relates to theme of the thread and might give more information on the conflict between the two sections.


The conflict is the New Testament was written in Greek, we have evidence of a "Gospel of the Hebrews, quotes only, and a Syriac and Greek book as old called Homilies and Recognitions of Clement. Or Travels of Peter.

It's a Semitic theology and anti-trinity, anti Paul and if not FOR Paul then we would have a different Bible.

Add the Acts of the 12 individual Apostles and most of the Apocryphal books like the Infancy Gospels, and you have a perfect fit.

Instead of some guy writing letters chastising everyone, Paul, you have more stories and adventures, interesting too. Paul is a fraud and 3 or more people wrote in that name, it's a scam.

He didn't even know Jesus pbuh and was a Herodian Jew, a Benjaminite, like Herod(s).



This is the root of the God not being able to lie and being omnipotent problem. It states these in NT but "conflicts" with the stories in
It's as if God of OT and God of NT are two separate entities. (TTT)


Only because God doesn't have much of a speaking role in the NT, as it is focused on the Messiah, who fulfills OT prophecy.

They are not different, it's the God of Abraham and Moses (pbuh), so if it SEEMS like a different entity it's because Greeks wrote it, Romans too probably with the exception of Jude, James and Revelations possibly being written by Judahites.

They all use the LXX but in 1AD Jews in Palestine would have used what the DSS are, an Aramaic/Hebrew-Aramaic script, and very few Greek language writing.

And why would you not state your name?

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. Anonymous all.



Forgive my ignorance, I know very little about NT. OT is a historical allegory so I assume then NT is also a historical allegory.

Or does it have a different role in the bible?



Allegory is a definite so not ignorant, in fact people who don't know that and read it only literally are.



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti
Yes, it is important. I like to know what people are talking about if I'm going to engae with them.

And why should I be aware of a cultic, satan driven way of speaking or being?

peace



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti


Abraham knew? How do YOU know what he knew xxxx?


I know because I believe in the inherent word of God, it’s truth as no other book is true. I believe in my God who cannot lie, and cannot break promises. God promised Abraham his son Isaac would father many nations. He can’t do that if he’s dead now can he?

I believe Abraham didn’t have a problem with what God asked of him (after his first reaction). Abraham knew as I do God cannot lie and/or break a promise. So in acting out on faith and acting out the steps of prophecy? It then became GOD’S problem! Abraham knew God would either have to save his son, or resurrect him.


17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death. (Hebrew 11:17-19)



Also not true and you have no Biblical evidence


Oh but I do have biblical evidence, lol.


On the third day Abraham caught sight of the place from a distance. 5 Abraham said to his servants: “Stay here with the donkey, while the boy and I go on over there. We will worship and then come back to you.(6 Gen 22:4)


Not ‘I’ will be coming back to you - ’We’

Proof enough for me.



according to Jewish tradition he was a lad, and the Bible doesn't disagree.


But the Hebrew does. So does math. We know Isaac wasn’t 37, but we believe by the math he was late 20’s early 30’s. If you’re interested in an in depth study of this point it can be found in a fantastic and informative video by Chuck Missler.


it is not "proof" of anything else regarding anyone else.


It is great proof. Prophetical proof.

First I see God knew Abraham would do as he was asked. As a modern day Christian I didn’t know it without seeing it (reading it). It proves to me we must be faithful and believe and if we do the Lord will never leave us or forsake us.

The story of Issac is the most blessed prophetic act until the reserection.

Examples: Just a few.


‘Take they son, *thy only son, Isaac whom though lovest‘...(Gen 22:2)


Added note: This is the first place in the bible the word love is used. By the law of first mention (the first place a think is mentioned in the scripture is very definitive).

His ‘only son’/lovest = Christ/Isaac.

When Isaac asked where was the offering? It’s not Abraham stalling - it’s the revelation of truth/prophecy.

He tells Isaac:


‘God will provide Himself (Him Self) an offering. (Gen 22:7,8)


And he did. 2000 years later God offered His son, offered Christ a a sacrifice for our sin, and he was crucified.

After, Isaac and Abraham went on in agreement.

Isaac - the foreshadow of Christ.

Now look at the similarities between Isaac and Christ. The comparisons of Isaac and Christ are almost unbelievable.



Bible study tools

For me personally? In my heart faith would be much harder to keep and act on had I been promised something different. That’s when the ‘but’ of faith would have come in, ‘BUT God, you promised something different’... And the ‘but’ right there negates faith. The fear of the Lord drove Abraham on, his love for the Lord and the foreknowledge his son would not die.


Jesus xxxx is modeled on the Azazel ritual of Leviticus and was actually allegedly killed


I’m not going any farther with this.

Jesus was not ‘allegedly’ killed. He was killed. A spear was shoved into his side where blood and water poured out. He rose again three days later and even now is waiting to call us up to Him where we will be reunited with Christ and He with his bride.

And then? Then the world will see what the Lion of the Tribe of Judah can do - and will do - because He will return and EVERY KNEE will bow. Then He will make war like no war you’ve ever seem.


It is a disturbing tale


I can imagine considering Isaac’s seed are free and the seed of Hagar will always live in bondage would be disturbing to you.

For it is said:


28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so also it is now. 30Howbeit what saith the scripture? Cast out the handmaid and her son: for the son of the handmaid shall not inherit with the son of the freewoman. 31Wherefore, brethren, we are not children of a handmaid, but of the freewoman. (Galatians 4:28-31)


It's interesting to realize the spiritual warfare we witness daily. The whole attack of islam, who would call itself the son's of Ishmael is to attack the inheritance of Isaac.

In short? For me? God is good. All the time. He will never ask us to do anything we cannot. And in his great mercy Hw will always keep His promises and will never ever lie.

And in the end? We win. *wink*

peace

edit on 3406Thursday201713 by silo13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: silo13

Do you have any support for those views that does not rely on the testimony of interested parties?

You have to admit it's a reasonable question to ask.



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 12:57 PM
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originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: Disturbinatti


Abraham knew? How do YOU know what he knew xxxx?


I know because I believe in the inherent word of God, it’s truth as no other book is true.



Would be a valid answer if the Bible said Abraham (p) knew what would happen but the spirit and letter of it says otherwise.

You are in a position of believing what you want when it is against tradition, scripture, OT and New it was considered an act of Righteousness and obedience BECAUSE he was willing to sacrifice his son.

He didn't know God was going to stop him​.

So again how do you know what the Bible doesn't say, says otherwise?


I believe in my God who cannot lie, and cannot break promises. God promised Abraham his son Isaac would father many nations. He can’t do that if he’s dead now can he?


God is not lying.

You said it, the Bible disagrees with you so it is not about God it's you who thought you knew something and was wrong.

Now you are using typical evangelist rhetoric to avoid just admitting it doesn't say that.



I believe Abraham didn’t have a problem with what God asked of him (after his first reaction). Abraham knew as I do God cannot lie and/or break a promise. So in acting out on faith and acting out the steps of prophecy? It then became GOD’S problem! Abraham knew God would either have to save his son, or resurrect him.

17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.(Hebrew 11:17-19)


Also not true and you have no Biblical evidence


Oh but I do have biblical evidence, lol.

On the third day Abraham caught sight of the place from a distance. 5 Abraham said to his servants: “Stay here with the donkey, while the boy and I go on over there. We will worship and then come back to you.(6 Gen 22:4) Not ‘I’ will be coming back to you - ’We’

Proof enough for me.



according to Jewish tradition he was a lad, and the Bible doesn't disagree.


But the Hebrew does. So does math. We know Isaac wasn’t 37, but we believe by the math he was late 20’s early 30’s. If you’re interested in an in depth study of this point it can be found by Chuck Missler www.youtube.com...


it is not "proof" of anything else regarding anyone else.


It is great proof. Prophetical proof.

First I see God knew Abraham would do as he was asked. As a modern day Christian I didn’t know it without seeing it (reading it). It proves to me we must be faithful and believe and if we do the Lord will never leave us or forsake us.

The story of Issac is the most blessed prophetic act until the reserection.

Let’s start here.

[Gen 22: ‘Take they son, *thy only son, Isaac whom though lovest‘...

Added note: This is the first place in the bible the word love is used. By the law of first mention (the first place a think is mentioned in the scripture is very definitive). His ‘only son’/lovest = Christ.

When Isaac asked where was the offering? It’s not Abraham stalling - it’s the revelation of truth/prophecy.

He tells Isaac - ‘God will provide Himself (Him Self) an offering.’ And he did. 2000 years later God offered His son, offered Christ a a sacrifice for our sin, and he was crucified. (Gen 22:7,8) So they went on in agreement.

Isaac - the foreshadow of Christ.

Now look at the similarities between Isaac and Christ. The comparisons of Isaac and Christ are almost unbelievable.

source from Bible study tools Insert picture www.biblestudytools.com...

For me personally? In my heart faith would be much harder to keep and act on had I been promised something different. That’s when the ‘but’ of faith would have come in, ‘BUT God, you promised something different’... And the ‘but’ right there negates faith. The fear of the Lord drove Abraham on, and his love for the Lord.


Jesus xxxx is modeled on the Azazel ritual of Leviticus and was actually allegedly killed


I’m not going any farther with this. Jesus was not ‘allegedly’ killed. He was killed. A spear was shoved into his side where blood and water poured out. He rose again three days later and even now is waiting to call us up to Him where we will be reunited with Christ and He with his bride.

And then? Then the world will see what the Lion of the Tribe of Judah can do - and will do - because He will return and EVERY KNEE will bow. Then He will make war like no war you’ve ever seem. O



It is a disturbing tale


I can imagine considering Isaac’s seed are free and Hagar’s son’s seed will always live in bondage would be disturbing to you.

It does not take away from the truth that God is good. All the time. He will never ask us to do anything we cannot. And in his great mercy Hw will always keep His promises and will never ever lie.

peace




Your beliefs seem to be and are at odds with the Torah unfortunately. You may BELIEVE anything, but the fact is every Biblical exegete on Earth of any competence will tell you your misunderstanding of the tale is severe.

Our disagreement was whether Abraham knew ahead of time what God would do, which not only isn't the story AT ALL, in fact it represents Abraham making the ultimate sacrifice and trusting God and is why he is called "Friend of God." PBUH.

It doesn't require all your words and you only accomplished nothing at all, with all those words you can't prove your point.

Simply because you are incorrect factually.

If you want to misinterpret it to suit your needs, fine, but have some respect for the story itself that you are not so familiar with to suggest what you did you can not possibly be.

The point of the story is sacrifice, and with the"knowledge" he would not actually have to do it Abraham (pbuh) didn't do anything but act on knowledge and not faith, which is righteousness too and you rob Abraham (pbuh) of his righteousness by saying that he knew.

That is not sacrifice. He would be playing along knowing the outcome and God would have noticed.
edit on 8-6-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti

You obviously have never met Chuck Missler

You want an exegete - there he is - 100%

And I agree with him...

peace



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: silo13


I honestly have no need for whoever that is if he is your source I suggest getting a new one because the Bible doesn't say what you are claiming.

I don't need anyone to tell me how to read. Or what this or that means. Because I have spent years doing it myself.



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: Astyanax


Do you have any support for those views that does not rely on the testimony of interested parties?


So you're asking me if I have any proof/support of these views without using the Bible?

No - why go to something else when you have the authority.

That being said I can't see many people taking up time to write and research why (they think) the Bible isn't true or to prove it false but if they did (and I'm sure there's millions who do) why would I ask a Christian read anything so plebian?

I understand your question and in another conversation I would salute it - but under this topic? I have the ultimate book on the subject soooo...

Or did you mean something else - like proof the Bible was written by God? Or holds truth?

That's easy - even muslims believe Hagar's son is their forefather - so why would such a religion of peace (*cough choke*) believe in something that isn't true?

peace



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: Disturbinatti

You obviously have never met Chuck Missler

You want an exegete - there he is - 100%

And I agree with him...

peace


Frankly after saying what you did if the name you are dropping is where you heard this it is second hand at best

I read it myself. Many times. Don't need an exegete because I am one.

And I said "competent exegete" or meant to.

This guy can not be IF what you attributed to him is true

There is NOTHING to support your claim or if his, his claim.

Prove me wrong. Try anyway.
edit on 8-6-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: Astyanax


Do you have any support for those views that does not rely on the testimony of interested parties?


So you're asking me if I have any proof/support of these views without using the Bible?

No - why go to something else when you have the authority.

That being said I can't see many people taking up time to write and research why (they think) the Bible isn't true or to prove it false but if they did (and I'm sure there's millions who do) why would I ask a Christian read anything so plebian?

I understand your question and in another conversation I would salute it - but under this topic? I have the ultimate book on the subject soooo...

Or did you mean something else - like proof the Bible was written by God? Or holds truth?

That's easy - even muslims believe Hagar's son is their forefather - so why would such a religion of peace (*cough choke*) believe in something that isn't true?

peace


Now you just revealed your bias.

I am a Muslim and it IS A religion of peace.

I know because I go to the Mosque all the time and know many Muslims who are peaceful.

You don't know a thing about anything.

In fact you are antagonistic when you are wrong, slanderous regarding religions you don't belong to and can't possibly know if are or are not peaceful.

You are a typical casualty of war propaganda and a follower.
edit on 8-6-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti

Funny how I proved it - and you still think you're correct.

Oh well. Live in ignorance. Most do.

* And it's said - "Only a fool says what he does not need, when he does not know what is being offered".

IE: Chuck Missler

peace

* I just made that up, so the quotes are mine, lol. If I unknowingly plagiarized some other great witty person, I didn't mean to.



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: silo13



I'm going to have to apologise but I don't talk to biggots who characterize 1.5 billion people according to their ignorant opinions.

Gonna have to say goodbye and talk to someone who doesn't hate.



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti

Awww, is someone upset now they can't prove a woman wrong?

You said I could not find anything to back up what I stated as truth from the BIBLE.

With help from God - and to Him be the glory - I did exactly what you said I could not.

So go have your temper tantrum somewhere else.

This lady is not going to put up with your rants and deflections, your denial of the truths you asked for, and well, *you acting like a big ol fat meany dang it.


I’ll keep you in my prayers.

peace

Edit to add: I guess poor humor didn't work to lighten things up.



edit on 1631Thursday201713 by silo13 because: see above



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: silo13



May God guide you to the straight path and bless you with clear signs and much peace in your life.

Salaam.



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti

I don't hate.

And truth is not based on emotion.

Hate is an emotions so how you pair the two up doesn't even make sense.

Take care.

peace



posted on Jun, 8 2017 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti


Now you just revealed your bias.


Of course I'm biased!

Tell me you're not?

Kettle black thing ya know.

peace




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