Baddogma's Other Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

African or European swallow?

a reply to: Reverbs

I think everything is information. I like to think of it as -1/0/1.
Maths is merely the most logical language. But that doesn't mean I believe in holographic universe or simulation theory. Material reality is still real even if it's organised through algorithms.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Animals count their young. Maths is something far beyond counting. But what do I know? I'm very much looking forward to read it.

a reply to: Peeple

"Material reality is real"

What material is space made of?

a reply to: Reverbs

Radiation, light, neutrinos, other subatomic particles, forces like gravity and electro-magnetism...

a reply to: Peeple

I mean space itself...

For instance gravity can bend space.. gravity can make space waves.. but it is not space.

What material is space?

And are the "laws" of quantum mechanics real?
They had to exist "before" space time even though time wasn't a thing lol..

The laws of physics predate reality...

I have no clue what people mean by reality. Is reality only what you can interact with and only if it's physical? Reality=universe? Meaning reality was created out of fantasy?



I do agree I think with your -1/0/1 if you mean to say our universe being created didn't violate conservation of energy as it's total energy level is zero. I used to call it infinity separated..

a reply to: Reverbs

I believe I read somewhere that it's a lot less dark matter than expected because they didn't calculate it with the particle mass and they are everywhere. That is your fabric of space electron, neutron, proton. -1/0/1

My rat my poor darling Lola has a tumour! I could really ... I don't know. I'm having a bad bad day.

a reply to: Peeple

You mean to say the vacuum is made of hydrogen when hydrogen is like one atom per cubic meters in deep space?

I think you are going with some field theory then?
I wonder have they figured out how the higgs field reacts with everythimg? Does it react with photons?

Even if there is less dark matter dark energy has to be an enormous value to accelerate spatial expansion. In fact that's why many think the vacccum of space "contains" "dark energy"

As more space is created more dark energy would be present and you accelerate into infinity.. I don't know if I buy that.

I also don't know that there is less dark matter maybe I missed that?? I know the early galaxies had much less dark matter than later ones .. And the milky way has half as much as previously thought, but I'm not seeing anything universe wide.

But it looks like we might go back to having an "ether" or at least the idea nothing is ever empty it's all fields and potentialities.




I'm so sorry peeple

I wish I could hug you right now.

a reply to: Peeple

Oh maybe you are talking about this?

here

It seems to rely on a different take on quantum gravity and that dark energy is a property of the vacuum, and dark matter doesn't exist.

I only read a bit, going to finish it later.

Math. Usually we start with integers. These are whole counting numbers that even animals use to seemingly count with. Pythagoras is the philosopher who stated, “Everything is mathematics” (Wikipedia). He was thinking of integers. One of his disciples, Hippasus, showed that a unit right triangle does not have an integer value for the hypotenuse (the value is (sqrt 2) which is an irrational number). This finding so upset the Pythagorean scholars they actually killed the messenger for such heretical news! That school also is where the concept of an “outer teaching” and an “inner teaching” which we all know as “exoteric” and “esoteric “ which allowed people to study math but only an initiate could access the “hidden” meaning of math (punishable by death if revealed to non-initiates. Why does that sound familiar?)

The idea of “all being math” is not new. After the fear of non-integer values, passed, and zero was added, and in the mid-sixteen hundreds the concepts of algebra were being dispersed did math finally deserve the meta math treatment (this is really just a gross gloss over the history of math! The main part is it took until modern algebraic concepts were created and played with that math was studied as a subject).

Glossing ecstatic over even more algebra history, things started getting kind of wild and scary! Irrational numbers, like Pi, were being used and studied. Sequences were something easily stated but behaved strangely like Fibonacci found out. While the concept of the square root of 2 was no longer a reason for murder, the idea of the square root of -1 was! Math is nothing if not ductile enough to absorb new and strange notions so complex numbers were created and found actual use in math, to the shock of some people (who still do not grasp, “imaginary” numbers). Some dude discovered calculus at the same time as some other dude. Math made leaps and bounds as great thinkers came and went. Soon, the application of the calculus were describing things that went against established dogma for which people were burned at the steak or sent to prison for life. Out of that last statement, please take this away: the math does not lie! Because you cannot understand something does not mean it is wrong!

Names were given to various branches of inquiry. Geometry, algebra, continuous calculus (derivatives), integral calculus, and the idea of matrix math which would become known as linear algebra. There is an overlap with another concept of enumeration of entities. This branch of math contains within it logic, sets, and linear algebra. Known as discrete mathematics (because there are countable discrete, or individual, entities) this kicked around being the little brother of “real analysis”, nice but not as useful as the tools big brother brought to the table. That is until the digital age happened and the birth of digital computers. Suddenly the tools of discrete mathematics, which were expanded to include: continuous functions, complex numbers, polynomials, and real functions (wave functions). This is the part I had trouble grasping because a wave function making integers?? But that is nor exactly how all this is integrated. The wave functions were brought into matrix calculations. A matrix is a countable entity that obeys integer concepts. It is the contents of the matrix, the complex numbered functions, that is the avenue of inquiry. For example, quantum algorithms are nothing but a matrix of Schrodinger’s wave functions defining the quantum state of a quantum system.
Wikibooks.org – Discrete Mathematics/Analytic Number Theory.

Yikes! That is a lot of math! Yeah, I know; and in such a short time. Just realize that this stuff exists and has real world applications.

(...Continued)

That was what I was reading last week. I came across the term, “strange sequence” found in quantum systems and bus schedules! That led me to Wigner function. This is the “spectrum lines” of distributions that is self-similar across so many fields that linked last week.

Then I found this article: The Universe is Made Of Mathematics.

That is where I ran across Max Tegmark’s idea. My mind already reeling glommed onto the idea because it fit with everything I just tried explaining above about discrete math! A few days, a few beers, and a little reflection, I realized that Tegmark did not use any math to make his argument! His argument is philosophical at best and quasi-religious at the other end.

I will try and explain how I mapped real math to Tegmark’s ideas.

Tegmark's MUH [mathematical universe hypothesis] is: Our external physical reality is a mathematical structure. That is, the physical universe is mathematics in a well-defined sense, and "in those [worlds] complex enough to contain self-aware substructures [they] will subjectively perceive themselves as existing in a physically 'real' world". The hypothesis suggests that worlds corresponding to different sets of initial conditions, physical constants, or altogether different equations may be considered equally real. Tegmark elaborates the MUH into the computable universe hypothesis (CUH), which posits that all computable mathematical structures (in Gödel's sense) exist [as the multiverse hypothesis]

Wikipedia – en.wikipedia.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Mathematical universe hypothesis.

See! Absolutely no math! The Wigner function and Universality is probably what got me excited. The fact that Philosophy Now article tried to talk to me is actually funny! I have several pages of hand written notes trying like hell to explain why “all is math” but I keep coming back to the Gödel notion of a “complete set that contains itself” (impossible because of recursion).

What I had in mind goes something like this. Universality is a math construct that underlies the “math we use to describe the world”. A meta-math. Get rid of the middle men, then what is left? Math. All is math (because I had just read about it, I got all excited!) But it is like calling “string theory” a theory! It is man-made math construct trying to solve some problems with what we see when using “math we use to describe the world.” The notion, “all is math,” works well with the quantum fluctuations in the “void” (@Reverbs, space is! That is about all I have gotten out of reading about it from various sources. Some get as crazy as me and say things like, “black holes do not exist!”), since all that quantum foam is described well by quantum wave function. But that is as far as I can really go in good faith! The rest is arguing, “what the definition of is, is.”

Maybe somebody else can argue it but I think it is a “good idea, but kind of a cop out when no math was used in creating the idea.” I made it to real analysis using discrete math, Tegmark is a philosophic exercise. It is not a math exercise at all.

(... continued)

I like the idea that all is math!

It needs a better presentation in a mathematic setting. This idea still nags at me: unknown math scares people. If ever there was a possible “new math” that does as Tegmark describes it would probably lead to more steak burnings and prison time! It also seems that every time a leap is made in physics there is a change to the math used to describe the “math we use to describe the world.” All I know is that I need to get off my butt and add my little chunk to picture. Maybe it is the little changes that add up to bigger changes like the butterfly in the Amazon flapping it hover-blades causing a hurricane in the Atlantic Weekly!

Thanks for indulging me! If one day I wake up, and am not a cockroach, but see math all around me, I will know who to contact first!

-END-

And now for something completely different!

The 73-year-old, identified only as Jim, was leaning over the front of his bike, checking his West Gippsland property for hatching grasshoppers when he hit a hole, banging his head on the ground and breaking his neck, he told 3AW on Monday.

"I cracked my head on the ground but I don't think I was knocked out," the beef farmer told the radio station.

"I got to my feet, I knew there was something seriously wrong. My head wouldn't stay up."
...

Doctors confirmed he had fractured his top two vertebrae, C1 and C2.

"The pain, it hurt so much, so I just held it up by my hair," Jim said.

yahoo news (.au) - Farmer breaks his neck on motorbike then rides for help holding head by his hair.

That is one tough SOB! I would have stared into the sky as I lay dying

a reply to: Peeple

Ah Peeps!

That sucks!

I hope it is benign and not causing other problems with circulation or breathing!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

That was a lot. I had an advanced course in maths many many years ego, but if everything were maths I probably wouldn't be capable to breathe. jk
Burn the witch(you)!

It's crazy what people can do when their survival instincts kick in.

a reply to: Reverbs

That could be it.
Why is there no woo anymore? Even the new accounts with "I am god" or any weird stories gone quiet? Why is that?

a reply to: Peeple

I read this about the Dead Sea Scrolls yesterday. I don't know why it set off this line of thought... but it did.

The sections of the scrolls were [...] written in code and some of the fragments were smaller than 1 sq cm (0.155 sq inches).

They detailed special occasions celebrated by the ancient Jewish sect [Essenes], which observed a unique 364-day calendar.

These included festivals of New Wheat, New Wine and New Oil, which were related to the Jewish festival of Shavuot.

The researchers also discovered the name used by the sect for a festival observed four times a year that marked the transition between the seasons - Tekufah. The same word in modern-day Hebrew means "period".

bbc.com, news - Mysterious Dead Sea Scroll deciphered in Israel.

The wages which our ancient brethren received for their labors in the building of King Solomon’s Temple are paid no more. In the lodge we use them as symbols, save in the dedication, constitution and consecration of a new lodge and in the laying of cornerstones, when once again the fruit of the land, the brew of the grape and the essence of the olive are poured to launch a new unit of brotherhood into the fellowship of lodges; or to begin a new structure dedicated to the public use.

Corn, wine and oil have been associated together from the earliest times. In Deuteronomy the “nation of fierce countenance” which is to destroy the people “shall not leave thee either corn, wine or oil.”

masonicworld.com - Corn, Wine, and Oil.

Wheat was referred to as "corn" probably because it stems from "barleycorn", wheat and barleycorn are similar.

According to NASA records, the Sea of Tranquility was chosen based on its flat surface, but some researchers suggest this sight was chosen because on that date its coordinates lined up directly under Orion’s belt. They picked the landing site picking out first of all a specific date, latitude and longitude; you go then for a specific time and than you work your way back from that to create the launch window. It is believed, that the person who picked all of Apollo's landing dates and landing times including Apollo 11 was Farouk El-Baz, his father is also believed to be an expert on ancient Egypt, history and mythology, hmmm… weird?

According to Ancient Egyptian believes [sic], ceremonies performed directly under Orion’s belt produce a sacred alignment, which allows humans to communicate directly with Osiris. Apollo 11 had landed at a specific day and a specific time where the three belt stars of Orion were on the horizon. And exactly 33 minutes after landing, Buzz Aldrin, the second man to walk on the Moon, who was a 33 Degree Scottish Rite Freemason was actually performing a ceremony on board the lunar module with Neil Armstrong, He even admitted it, but not completely according to many ufologists.

ancient-code.com - The Moon Landing and Masonic Ritual.

Guess what the ritual involved? Yup, corn (wheat, in the form of bread. Communion wafer??), wine, and oil.

Strange that not only does it go back past Christianity, but even Jewish times, all the way back to Egypt.

Orion is actually Osiris to the Egyptians. I read somewhere else that all three astronauts partook of the ritual which lasted "several minutes" after they landed. There is even some devout atheist lady who sued NASA over the "Christian" ritual. Buzz Aldrin would later say he wishes he had been more inclusive (more representative of mankind including more religions), rather than appearing "Christian".

What is NASA really doing with Egyptian (Freemasonry traces it's roots back to Ancient Egypt as well as other places. There is still an Egyptian Rite that one may work), ritual under Osiris' belt stars?

Fraternity, Brotherhood, and Universality? Faith, hope, and charity? Maybe, even literally, the Brotherhood of man under the Fatherhood of God.

originally posted by: Peeple



a reply to: Reverbs

That could be it.
Why is there no woo anymore? Even the new accounts with "I am god" or any weird stories gone quiet? Why is that?

I don't know peeps. It's kinda freaking me out. Is normal life the only thing left?

We hit that crazy peak where I could have believed the woo and us would be married forever.. A part of a separate dimension. And then it went blank for a bit.. then wam it was coming back again..

Now?

ZERO!



So my most exciting story is we finally rolled out the new menu and I #ing love it. I love cooking it, I love hearing all the compliments.. it's better food but a bit quicker to prepare even.

I'm excited!

Woo-ie woo-ie woo
Where are you
We have some things to do now.

Maybe it's America fault. So much focus. I havnt seen # this crazy in over 30 years of life here.

Woo just doesnt get wooed as much in the public consciousness lately.

a reply to: Reverbs

Ya things do seem quiet on the "woo" front lately.

originally posted by: Raxoxane
a reply to: Reverbs

Ya things do seem quiet on the "woo" front lately.

Right ?!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

I know the ritual from books and Washington, but why do it on the moon too? They didn't build something out there. Maybe claiming it? It's kind of cool. Use- and meaningless, but cool.
It's almost sad how much I lost faith in rituals and things. But I guess it is and always was just for the performer.
On the other hand if everything is information and consciousness is emergent from that rather than from matter, maybe it was also raising an invisible flag? If "aliens" go there they can "smell" now that it's human property.

a reply to: Reverbs

Woo the woo? How? "Oh you beautiful mindfunk, you're so mysterious"?
Maybe it was a test phase? Maybe those things happen periodicly? Maybe we failed?

a reply to: Peeple

Not a "physical" cornerstone. Then metaphysical? One small step for a man indeed!

Think about it. You spend years of life shaping your mind to these stories that are told and re-told. Then there is a chance to go to another world. Do you take off your clothes and dance around a bonfire? No, you do what you've been practicing the whole time! It is a step closer to the heavens and the Apotheosis. Becoming one with god (who it seems in this case is Egyptian and none other than Osiris. Which makes FM a continuation of the Isis/Osiris/Horus religion, to a point. But when you call Venus/Isis a planet, a planet that traces out a pentagram route around our solar system, which is referred to as the "Blazing Star" which is Sirius, the whole thing becomes kind of obvious! Horus would be the power of the sun (son) creating more associations of "3" which is repeated in 33 Degree of the Scottish Rite).

I was going to say something but I think that says a lot! Even the Dead Sea Scroll had them in order: corn, wine, oil!!

Maybe this whole "radical muslim vs Christianity" is a symbolic war with us cowans the collateral damage?! That makes the "twin towers" the pillars Jachin and Boaz! The symbolism is crazy!

What the h3ll did they do on the moon?!! Earth, sun, moon. It doesn't stop!