Baddogma's Other Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: Peeple

Personally I don't like theories which just postpone the problem without a real solution. Like simulation, creator and so on.

Me neither. It might indeed turn out to be 'turtles all the way down' and all the way up too. Until then I prefer to keep it as simple as possible. I love all the novelty, or more accurately, I love listening to geniuses talking about the novelty with my jaw wide open. No idea about black holes!

My point was more where the fixiation on the end of things is coming from.

Maybe it's your own subconscious focus at work? It isn't something I've noticed although it's something to mull upon; it's heart-breaking to think of the end of this universe. There's this point where some people can take their awareness to the point of appreciating, on some dim level, the size and age of the Universe. Take it one step further and it's singularity time again with the death of the Universe. Every song, every thought and every expression of love...all gone. Makes a little part of me hope there's a God so some memory of life gets to perpetuate.

#the sun doesn't rise forever

Ours certainly won't lol. I was thinking more metaphorically across worlds. As long as someone, somewhere is watching a sunrise it'll be fine. #eyesonsunrisesforever

BTW there's another clip of the Goertzel interview. It's great that people/fans upload these vids, but some don't show respect for the guests or other fans. It's often "Joe Rogan on _______" It should always include the guest name.

a reply to: Kandinsky

One of the first major depressions in life was that every moment is gone. You can never recreate it.
Im not sure really why anyone worries about the end of the universe though. Its fun to think about or interesting, but your own end of the world is coming much faster.

Im just enjoying the ride.

Simulation of course doesnt need to imply someone made it. It only implies a representational aspect. Information at the bottom. Thats it. And who cares about that? Playing a game with cheat codes is no fun at least for me. I dont want to know all at once. Id rather tease it out over the next 50 years. And even then it will be time for me to go. Ill look at the innocense of a 3 year old and just think, good luck little one. And goodbye.

Most everything is psychologically motivated.
If I look into trips, or alien encounters, religious experience, demons ghosts, astral travel...
The experiences are in the direction the experiencer would expect..

In other words its all in your head.
Who cares about god or demons when the biggest flavorer of life is your own to mold?
Objective reality has no meaning without subjective experience. Consciousness only exists in imperfection.

Turtles all the way down whatever.
Humans aren't turtles lol.
Saying there are more levels isnt a cop out because no one is saying they know whats underneath it all. No one with a scientific mind in that moment.
"Its pushing the goal posts"
Well maybe its placing them closer to where the goal actually is and we have even more to learn.

John lennon would say.
"God is a concept by which we measure our pain."
Im more along the lines of everything is connected there isnt a god personified, not a subjectified separation, from all.

Im just jumping in random i didnt read anythimg before this page.

How is everybody?

a reply to: Reverbs

Damn dude, are you on some of Rogan's Bulletproof coffee?!

a reply to: Kandinsky

I had just woken up.
I dont drink coffee.
When I dream im insane and several levels abstracted from my normal frame of reference.
It takes an hour or so until Im human again haha.

It feels like my soul was gone on adventures and is slow reintegrating to my 3d first person body mind.
But more probably its like more of my mind/brain reconnecting to my senses and memories.. oh right i forgot I was reverbs.. load self identity! Ahh ok.. memories integrated. I work at this place, im this old, did he say that last night? Oh yea crystals dont flush toilets like fairy land... handles.. ok gotcha.

Of course you do have to dissolve one frame of reference to see another. Like bith eyes open one behind a blanket 6 inches away. One can melt into the right eye and see the room. One could melt into the left eye and see blanket everywhere.. one can also try to see both at once and watch the brain lose its damn mind haha.

Waking up for me is like that more often than not.
...reverbs recalibrating...
I try to grab the slippery fish inbetween connecting my conscious mind boat and my unconscious sea.

Teach a man to fish and he loses religion. REM or REM...
Today I could say thanks for all the fish.
Actually my last name means something like fisherman in german.

a reply to: Reverbs

Ah you wonderful, crazy BB.
Everything can be built from information. I try to integrate all new theories I like and simulation theory is just not complex and abstract enough for me. I have updated my personal pet to involve:
Smaller scale material and consciousness reality is build on first strings and quarks beneath it qbits that's the true basic. I believe once we tackled them in a satisfying way we'll find we can " programme" things into existence out of seemingly thin air. Just redirect some flows, add some electrons, neutrons and protons et voilà sandwich, or at least bread.
Problem will just be that at the same time we'll hear the universe the planets and the stars chatting with eachother using qbits. And we'll hear some mind blowing things we won't like to hear. Like fe faster than light is possible, just not on a scale and in a way that would allow a living system taller than a photon to experience it. The speed of light is not just a speed limit it's a size limit too.

And on top of that, we'll some day find "matter-less consciousness" the properties will be like what we describe dark energy with.

I see a fascinating discussion going on in here. Just wanted to say hello and let you know I'll be sitting in the comfy chair in the corner near the fireplace. Carry on.

a reply to: Reverbs

Lord have mercy because your post makes total sense!

a reply to: Night Star

Hey Night Star. Been awhile since we've crossed paths. Glad to see you!


@Kandinsky
You are TOO kind lol.seriously though I get depressed when its all cemented back together.
Sometimes I wake up after bagging interdimensional groceries where each item is a part of one persons life experience and the bags arranged are fate, and im god making the universe..
And then Im like damn im reverbs again..
My consciousness is so so much slower when I drive it with my ego..

a reply to: Peeple

Simulations or reality? Both are the same level of abstraction. So many people have a normalcy bias..
Neither makes sense honestly.. its freaking nuts we exist anyway you look.. but we KNOW its normal for us to exist, so very few bat an eyelash..

The whole thing's insane.
As much as Ive focused on the All That Is..
I'm nowhere closer than I was when I was little.
If I could just figure out consciousness the rest may sit somewhere more sensical.
Until then Im lost..
Being lost suits me though.
I used to get lost as far as possible. Knowing where I was made me trapped.

What if we find out consciousness is reality?
Consciousness finds a home inside structures intricate and organized to a certain degree of complexity and bam spirit and physical.. neither manifesting without the other. As a cook, does the wine make the sauce? Or the butter? Remove either and you don't have sauce..

Information and the universe..
I find it funny how DNA builds biology, and that biology puts things in piles.. reversed local entropy through informational organaization.. if you want all the gold separated from the iron and sodium and chlorine and whayever, hire a human...
I sometimes imagine thats the point of awareness.


In fact earth itself doesnt have to worry about entropy as the sun is constantly pumping in new energy. Until the core cools that is. Plants are adding value to earth. The only aspect not changing I can think of is overal meneral amounts.. no alchemists making gold, but a few making isotopes and anti matter I guess.

I wonder what is conscious or is it our empathy and mirror neurons making us feel like other things have personality. How much is there? And how much is our own stained glass window perception adding extra flare to the situation?
Transference, projections..

All the aliens we make up have bodies and eyes...
Created in our own image.
I wonder how much we are missing about the universe that is not relatable to the human experience so we don't know to look?

a reply to: Reverbs

Glad to see you as well! I venture out of the shed once in a while. LOL

Loving the thought provoking discussion in here and will try to follow along when I have more time. Had a busy day and very tired right now.

a reply to: Reverbs

What you wrote made me think about bias. "Even computers are biased" that's how we started Thinking "ey it's a holographic universe" because we found code looking through our coded tools. Mathmaticians find math in the structure of the universe. It's all really there, it's just not the whole story. The thing is looking at the universe free from bias is not and will never be possible.
But to find an universal theory we must do the best we can and integrate as much bias as has been proven. "Proof" is subjected to bias too. It's not like "mathmatically proven" means "universal".
God, as in "greater consciousness influencing smaller consciousness" is proven by consciousness-experience.
Alien, as in "strange life form visiting the living beings of Earth" is proven to everybody with a contact experience.
Code in the universe, is proven by computers.
Math as universal language is proven by mathmathmaticians.
Meta-universe, as in different layers, or dimensions of reality, is proven by psychonauts.
Materialism, is proven daily the second we wake up.
...
I think you get my point? the proof for an universal theory is found in the integral of each approach. From subjective proof a to z and the formula goes something like "always beware the exception of the rule" those are the +/-/×/÷ or connecting operation points..

Ask a geologist he will tell you minerals are everything but dead, just on a very slow time scale. But they too interact with their environment, proven by my body fe or yours we need our minerals because they "act". They also get born, evolve and decay. Just veeeeeery sloooooooooooow

a reply to: Peeple

Haha.

You are on point. Wtf?

You said it all.

a reply to: Reverbs

Thanks, you made me think it.

I thought the meta in the Cafè was dead, but we just needed new blood. Thanks Kandinsky that was exciting.

a reply to: Reverbs

We're all the same on that one. I've had one of the worst periods at work and it's left my brain like a zombie at times. "He talks in metaphors" has been levelled at me a few times which is a back-handed compliment or an accurate slam for being obscure. I'll take either! You speak metaphors too.

I wonder what is conscious or is it our empathy and mirror neurons making us feel like other things have personality. How much is there? And how much is our own stained glass window perception adding extra flare to the situation? Transference, projections..

Who can say and who cares? What's more is our subjective 'stained glass window perception' changes all the time. It's a bit of a f***** having world views turned upside down, but we move on and adapt until the next Zeitgeist or experiential wave loosens our moorings again. Life, huh? It's almost like novelty is built in to the system lol.

a reply to: Peeple

You're riffing on my favourite way of looking at life. It's Rorschachian in the sense we're all evolved (natured and nurtured), or designed (technology), to see everything through our own specific filters. The possibly infinite layers of complexity don't make it any less 'real' when we interpret the snapshot moment according to whatever mindset or circumstance we're in at the time.

The western coastline of the Americas has a great view of the sun setting. Maybe half a million people watch it one summer evening? Some don't care, some are enlivened, some are depressed, some are whatever else etc. Whatever the experience, it has that full barrel reality to the percipients despite having a ~quarter million degrees of separation on either side of the norm on that one particular evening.

#! I'm harping on about sunsets and sunrises again. Someone needs a new analogy!

a reply to: Kandinsky

Theres nothing new under the moon?

Im just saying who cares about reality?
My world ended and restarted Im back again but not the same. Im not the same the world looks different.

Who cares if the world changed or I did. In the end its effectively a whole new world for me.

And I like that a lot. Changing my windows.. I dont need crystal clear windows just the ability to restain them all the time is fine.

a reply to: Kandinsky



&+also "the ciiiiircle of life the wheeeeel of fortune..."
Imagine what the people a few thousand years ago musst have felt they thought the sun was dying each time. Or "travel through the underworld", or that good old Apollo was done with the job for the day and returned home. That's truly fascinating to imagine.
What I think makes me feel. What's up with melancholy? Why is that so romantic?

I have a lot of very young people working at the same place as I am and they fascinate me too, they seem much more naive than they really are once you start a conversation about apes and humans in comparison fe like yesterday. They came to the conclusion that the difference is really small, as they learn to use sign language, tools, are territorial etc. I was so surprised all of that took me years to realise and they discussed it out in a few minutes with only 18-22 years experience on their back. That gave me back a little faith in humanity and now I feel better.
Which naturally influences my thinking, changes the filter a bit and that is influencing my feeling and so on and so on. Emotions and bias play a big role in eachother's life. Like an old married couple with division of labour.
And the spectrum is really huge. Momentary snapshots like the "now" perception all unique like snowflakes.

That's why I don't really get psychology. It seems so often like an oversimplification and I wonder how much abstraction can a "diagnosis" or assesment really take before it gets false because it's just far too simple?
But it's a typical human need, pretty little drawers, let me stuff you in and label you so I can at least think I understand you even if doesn't do anything for you but make you feel uncomfortable...
That's not what a true doctor does and it's not science. Which is a real shame because psychological problems are collectively growing the more schizophrenic our society becomes. But the way we practice it, we add fuel to the fire.
I'm not against it per se, even if it maybe sounds like it, I'm just pro reforms.

Freaking!

Boris Karlof did the original Grinch that stole Christmas!!

Could’ve sworn it was Vincent Price!!

I thought Boris was dead by then! And that is why MJ’s Thriller was so cool!!

WTF?!?!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Talking to my self, I guess!?!?!!