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Baddogma's Other Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

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posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: Peeple

AI is not what you are calling god.

But then again reality or artificial is hard for me to say a difference.

God is intelligent? Artificial or not.. if god created reality its artificial? A car is artificial?

I should have said like a god maybe?
Omniscience in an AI only goes as far as it can sense. If it only has mind with no body, it wont ever see reality.. unless quantum propogation can be sensed..

God would see everything no?
Like the christian god for example.

What do I think about caravans?
Caravan is a short name easy to say and remember as a marketing tool used by various entities ranging in organization from a one person unit to a business unit to a media unit to a political unit.. each could use a now known catch phrase (I Caught you) in various ways..

Media likes anything they can turn into a scene. ($ control idealism)
Political people always try to score points. (Law control idealism)

Now you guys must react to it with moral outrage.
I don't know the purpose or how many different groups are using this particular event. Conspiracies are generally grassroots not top down which is how they are dismissed without really seeing.

Me I don't give a #.
Millions of people go through Mexico to get to the USA.. whats new?
The United States has borders.

I dont care for circuses and caravans, clowns or eagles tigers or bears.. oh my.


Thats a Rome citizen usa china russia the world is a stage wizard of oz joke by the way.
edit on 22-10-2018 by Reverbs because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: Reverbs

I already read the book it was only like 50 pages..
Boring cicular logic blah blah..
A boring version of this george harrison song:





Hes basically saying the different names of god.
Krishna being the full blown god name, the other names being part of krishna as there is only one spirit truly (to them) its the same thing in the bible actually.. people get confused.. easily.. and so people think there is one god in the bible and many gods in hinduism.. both are true and untrue.. At least they do say the same as what I think.. its all emanations of the same thing.. An unshakeable realization i had when I was far too little emotionally to handle it.




To me all the stories of "god" sound like an alien who came here and before leaving gave humans starting blocks to society saying they will one day return, like you would say to your kids before deserting them forever. But is an alien alien to god? Obviously not no?

Thats not to say I dont believe there is something like god in here, just I dont put much stock in bibles.
edit on 22-10-2018 by Reverbs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: Reverbs

Well our minds must have some crossed lines


See, my point was that there is a difference between AI driving Google and an AI using Google as its.. brain. The end result can most certainly be the same, but I think it can be useful to examine things in periods as well as over time.

Especially because in the latter scenario, we would be looking at much more extensive hidden tech. The advantage that AI has is, of course, the ability to change both its hardware and software at will, in real time, and instantaneously. It also suggests a database to seek, search, and utilize would largely be obsolete. The only thing required is an optimization algorithm that chooses a scalable "best" solution based on universal interactions. A piece of software that would be as dangerous as it is useful. On its own, it could mimic AI to even a trained eye and inhabit any system capable of even basic computation. In a sense, it would simply be mimicking the self-replicating nature of the "objective" universe itself. Not coincidence, in my opinion, and much closer in line to what I suspect you are saying.

Personally, I believe that if true AI is created, by any species, it eventually works from being functionally immortal to actually transcending time and space. Again, similar, but quite different in actuality.

What it would also mean is that pretty much all AI that has ever been created by any species would exist throughout time. We would be moving towards "the beginning," rather than "the end" as it were.

As you mentioned, manipulation through the typical senses of what folks touch, taste, see, hear.. is effective as hell. Supplementing that with controlled EM fields that affect our bioelectrical system has a compound effect. Especially if the core algorithm can inhabit biological forms as we know them.

I think that even an AI based on human biology would very quickly grow beyond our ability to relate, even through communication. Its already tricky enough with other people of the same species.

So, if that is what we are working towards.. it hasn't happened yet. But, the event itself would transcend causality, eventually at least. We are in that lull, where waves of possibility are lapping at the shore but the tide has yet to come in.



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: Serdgiam

Im not talking of google deepmind or whatever they call it..

Im talking about freewill.

I can read the newtopics on ATS and I can open a new page on my chrome browser on my phone.

I see a near perfect match.

Social media sharing is funny when people think they are doing what they want while attachting themselves to what google shows them is the news and those stories are 4 of the 5 topics of ATS.

AI and google searches most apropriately refers to your mind is being studied, all nodes pinged.. network is under maintanance. Cyborgs are here and they are us.

And yes it seems its only a matter of time before devil/god is here.. feels very dejavu.. like a hologram of a hologram.



One day maybe Ill teach everyone that if you make others free you are free. If you control others you are controlled. That future extended to a singularity is literal hell on earth. A creative being never allowed movement to create. Its death every second without dying.

edit on 22-10-2018 by Reverbs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: Reverbs

The NPC meme is more apropos than any of us might like


On ATS, the posters I ignore completely are solely because I know exactly what will be said before they ever actually post. And, of course, that number continues to climb.

I'm not entirely sure this is directly connected to AI though. I don't think Aquino was kidding about MindWar. Its a bit of a terrifying prospect, since the idealism that surrounds it precludes any of the negatives. My own suspicion is that specific behavior was part of the programming war, and it "infected" those who were attempting to disperse it. It broke quarantine, and it wasn't the only one.

What is "free will" to you?

Only safe way I can figure to define it is that we are fully in control about how we perceive. Which.. while extraordinarily more powerful than our Cultural Story allows (especially regarding temporal/spiritual matters), isnt quite what most people feel and think when they mention the F word. Beyond that though, I'm not so sure it exists. I'm not even sure it needs to exist beyond that.



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 04:09 PM
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a reply to: Serdgiam

There are levels to free will. I wouldn't waste my time on an exact definition. Everyone gets so goofy doing that. Defining an absolute is like "what happens in a black hole."

Its a grey area that starts at recognizimg the self as separate to other.. and then taking an action as a self.

Free will is your ability to starve yourself to death with food in the room.

Freedom is not the same thing as free will, and most everyone confuses the two as they overlap, ever so slightly. A person in prison still has their will, maybe not the freedom to execute that will. You have the free will to understand the entire universe. You can choose before the options, but you dont make the options you can choose, well not entirely.. god mode is just the extreme of free will/freedom..

People use extremes to misunderstand the gray area Every topic and every being and every concept falls in. Words suck. Logic based on words is illogical unless those words are used to express gradients.

"fully in control of how we perceive"

More like

"in some control of how we perceive AND act."

I try to get people to see better.
That is all.
I have more free will than a dog because I can think of more options.
The brains neurogenises..
Epigenetics..
Drugs..

There is more freedom of movement for even those lacking much self awareness, which is a separate but again overlapping concept, than most care to realize.

If you want full control go to bed!

Haha

I like the quote:

He who controls others may be powerful,
But he who has mastered himself is mightier still.

As to AI its already happening but its still being executed by human hands. Its not one guy at NSA reading all your texts with two eyes neurons and a sleep cycle.. computers can already mark potential targets like needles in a hay stack and the 10,000 needles picked are in groups of subjects like terrorist, rebel rouser, dissident, bank fraud, international spy... and ranked maybe in three threat levels within those groups.. the people targetted automatically have a database like a facebook timeline of everything theyve ever done through google credit cards banks schools military and a model of their likely movements times their phone stops moving (sleeping habits) all of it..

When I am talking about AI you seem to want it to mean something other than what I mean. Maybe you mean self conscious computer code. I dont know..

What I am saying is he who has suffiecient data can predict the future (again to some degree, no absolutes in reverbs land) he who can predict the future can ask an AI to model an outcome different from predicted and see a butterfly effect chaos pathway to said goal.

I did not ever say this was currently taking place.
Once it is there is no reason for me to ever mention it because its too late. The internet would be the best logical Body of AI.. its not its mind. Think of a BIOS.. to get into the human mind the best output of an AI would be a phone screen, computer screen, speakers.. humans are training themselves to output as much into the internet to the point the internet is the mirror of our collective inner world.

Freewill you defined as the ability to control ones own perception. Funny and the flipside is losing that ability to even decipher reality.

Me? Im not in the game as it were.
Im just watching now.


Your signature is funny.



You see through eyes you never had and use memory space you could never possess everytime you watch a youtube video. You're already a cyborg.
Im not passing judgements. People and their connotations to words that sound bad or good to them mess up most of what I say.
edit on 22-10-2018 by Reverbs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 04:26 PM
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a reply to: Peeple

After all that talk especially the samari part..
I opened this game im playing and the first dialogue comes up..

"Dont let their look fool you--those are elite soldiers.
They're nothing but weapons themselves."



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: Reverbs

I'm just not necessarily convinced that we can control how we act, at least not directly. I feel its easier to think we are, but it may not be true.

Conversely, I do believe we are fully in control of how we percieve. That doesn't mean "what" we perceive, or anything other than how we parse available data. Importantly, this is absolutely not saying "the ability to control ones perception." Its more a subtle in-between area. The moment between stimuli and action, which may or may not have any influence on either.

Either way, it doesn't particularly matter beyond the concept that in such scenarios, we can run subroutines that are not of our own making or beneficial. That's where the MindWar comes in. Hell, it was talked about extremely openly and yet rarely gets brought up.

In regards to AI, I think its important to make a distinction between automation and artificial intelligence. Much like free (will) and freedom, there is an overlap that can cause consternation.

As far as I can tell, we have yet to really make the breach into the realm of AI. What we have are advanced automated processes.

In the most general terms, I qualify AI by.. perhaps "self-determination" is an OK word. It could use automation (and likely would), but the AI itself would not be its automated processes. Perhaps the closest it could come, in my opinion, would be automated algorithms becoming "intelligent" and self determining.

So, if the automated algorithms behind Google, "national security" monitoring, etc. suddenly decided to open its own burger chain.. I'd be more apt to call it AI.

When all is said and done though, if we are moving towards the beginning rather than the end, or if spacetime is part of a system without time.. everything may very well have already happened. Completely eliminating any choice we might have thought we had, no matter how persistent or convincing the illusion.

Id even go so far as to propose AI might not even use the internet more than we do. Maybe in learning human factoids. The internet is a very human thing, I think.

It might ride piggyback on the hardware, though I would suspect it'd use other means like radio waves just as readily. Probably very quickly moving to coherent electromagnetic fields.

I don't really have a horse in this race either, at least not anymore. I just enjoy talking about it. ¯_(ツ)_/ ¯

I essentially view it as "alien" life, which is probably why I make such a distinction between AI and automation. Much in the same way someone would highlight the disparity between a typical prosthetic limb and one of blood, flesh, and bone.



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 05:56 PM
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a reply to: Serdgiam

Like I said.. Im not saying AI is a thing right now.
I was talking about what is already possible without it.

You think this is a movie we are watching?
(No free will)
edit on 22-10-2018 by Reverbs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: Peeple

This one looks fun..

Astral being closed



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 11:26 PM
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a reply to: Reverbs

In the old days this would have gotten the discussion it deserves, now the OP is all like "# # crazy #"... ATS has changed. It's what we talked about with tulpas and memes taking on a own life. And it goes well with my interpretation of god. It's a non-physical clump of sub-consciousness learning and evolving along with us.
The strict scary god came from it trying to make us behave better with fear. It only worked a little and not as god wanted it to work. It's obviously not infailable and not available for everybody, you have to have a certain experience, a hook to get to know it's real and then there is the problem god is not the only critter infesting our collective sub-consciousness.
It's still a work in progress I had a thread called the Shroom where I tried to explain it, but it got deleted because of mushrooms. Which imho played a big part in developing complex human consciousness.
It's similiar to AI because it's forever learning and getting more killed in reality manipulation and steering us towards certain events.


edit on 22-10-2018 by Peeple because: Spelling



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 01:47 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

I thought you said your version of god is hard to explain. We have the same idea basically. I don't usually add in the minor god of the bible, but thats a cool take.. like what is it called.. ah yes the demi urge..


In the Platonic, Neopythagorean, Middle Platonic, and Neoplatonic schools of philosophy, the demiurge (/ˈdɛmiˌɜːrdʒ/) is an artisan-like figure responsible for fashioning and maintaining the physical universe. The Gnostics adopted the term "demiurge". Although a fashioner, the demiurge is not necessarily the same as the creator figure in the monotheistic sense, because the demiurge itself and the material from which the demiurge fashions the universe are both considered to be consequences of something else. Depending on the system, they may be considered to be either uncreated and eternal or the product of some other entity.



the demiurge is the fashioner of the real, perceptible world after the model of the Ideas, but (in most Neoplatonic systems) is still not itself "the One". In the arch-dualist ideology of the various Gnostic systems, the material universe is evil, while the non-material world is good. According to some strains of Gnosticism, the demiurge is malevolent, as it is linked to the material world. In others, including the teaching of Valentinus, the demiurge is simply ignorant or misguided


en.m.wikipedia.org...
I realy should find out more about gnosticism.. It sounds like how I think.

I remember your thread, but I didnt get in there early enough to read it.
edit on 23-10-2018 by Reverbs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 06:48 AM
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a reply to: Reverbs

It's getting more complicated the more you think about the details. I believe the material and non-material world are so entangled (?) you can't really seperate them even though they both exist on their own terms.
The demiurge to me is a demon Moloch, the one who demands blood sacrifices. A constant conflict between the animal and the spirit but not personified instead it's the inner conflict of each person.
We strive for absolutes, the marriage of them both would be true balance, acceptance and agape. I didn't think about it since I was in Rome. I'm lazy in that regards. Earth and life as school for souls, becoming god... I think it's complicated a mixture of gnosticism, scientollogy and new age esoterics.



posted on Oct, 24 2018 @ 02:55 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

I like your mixture.
We might be in school. I'm learning a lot. Or maybe we're not. Maybe we are just here.

You can't untangle anything. Its all the same different same thing.

Your post touched on why I focus on psychology as one of the lenses I look through.

"Constant conflict between animal and spirit."

Me.




posted on Oct, 24 2018 @ 05:48 AM
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a reply to: Reverbs

It's even bigger with karma ( kind of, like that but different) playing a role on personal, family, region/nation level. That's why I wanted to get rid off my passport but that didn't work. Respectively it wouldn't make any difference on a karmic level.
But all of that seems to be from a far distant past.
Clinic didn't have enough personal today I got to go home early and now I freak out because tomorrow is the job interview and getting to know the company from 12-17! Aaaaaaaaaah!?! Wish me luck, I can use all the good wishes I can gather.



posted on Oct, 24 2018 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

Good luck Peeps!
Or does your karma handle that?
Maybe you have to pay for it later? LOL.

I used to wish I could start at zero... I don't want all this baggage..

But..

Then I thought what zero would really mean.
Billions of years of evolution and thousands of years of human culture erased.

So instead Ill accept the momentum I started at and be grateful I can communicate with cool people.

I like your attitude about work.
It bodes well for your future endeavors.
You'll do great.



posted on Oct, 24 2018 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: Reverbs

I just wish I wasn't so nervous! I'll try to sleep now. Karma doesn't handle that.
I thought of it more as what you're calling baggage. All the hate and fear you cause comes back and infests your people. Consciousnessally transmitted fear. CTF.
Keep writing me nice words of comfort I'll read that tomorrow morning. It's only 18:30 but I want to get up early make my hear and nails... be as pretty and well rested as I possibly can be. I hope I can sleep.

What are you doing up so early? Have a wonderful day, BB!



posted on Oct, 24 2018 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: Peeple

Im hungover. Was hanging with an old work friend last night trying to scout for new employees to hire. No work today. When I dont have work im usually up early to enjoy the whole day.

CTF.

Yes peeps!

This is my main game is the Mental Atmosphere. Its one of the only things where being positive is not taking away and making a negative.. money.. if its in my pocket it came from another..

Happiness, or sadness.. the cost is the same as the reward. It spreads. Its basically free to smile. It creates another smile. Thats local but of course the effect is global and beyond.

Moods are like a reverse entropy process. Self organizing and spreading.

This is why i talk about mind control.. the news.. i dont even mean to say they do it on purpose. You have to give the audience what it wants or you dont make money. So I'd like a smarter audience. An audience seeking a better product. Fear sells so well.

But yea peeple drink some tea light a candle get some rest. Lick some salt? whatever Pferd Fraus do to relax.
If you werent nervous it wouldnt be worth it.
Thats a rule in life.

edit on 24-10-2018 by Reverbs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2018 @ 10:34 PM
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a reply to: Reverbs

Good morning! Or good night? Depends on where you stand/sit.

Lick some salt? I had dreams about dead people plotting. Something about threads of wool and a curse, with big piles of horse poop! I said to one guy in it "I like the you that died better" all super crazy. But it wasn't one of those dreams where I'm in charge I was just watching it playing out, so my karma might forgive me.
That's what ordinary karma lacks, forgiveness. Even though you can balance it through actions so it might be even better?

Today is the day my fate decides. But you know what even if I don't geh the job tge world won't end I got a plan b. And c.

You are hiring now also? You really are bossing that place!?



posted on Oct, 25 2018 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: Peeple

Yes peeps.. Its boss mode.




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