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As a Liberal, I am disgusted with the current state of neo-liberalism

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posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: jimmyx

Nope. Sorry. Some of us have the will and fortitude to work to make it better.



there you go, now, was that hard?




posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:00 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

In my lifetime, I have never equated being Liberal with "limited government". Based on the actions of the left in the past 50 years, it appears to now be quite the opposite.

I'm not disagreeing with what Liberal meant in Jefferson's time, but in my 58 years it has shown to be the voice for larger government, more social programs, more regulations, higher taxes. The soda tax is a great example of what liberalism appears to be today.

It's probably time for some new labels....



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:00 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: underwerks

They shouldn't be taking our money to solve our problems the free market should be adapting and presenting the solution.

I have been working on a free market post for a while.


really?....a free market for healthcare?......that's what we had before Obama enacted the ACA...what do you think we had before that?....is history before 2010, too difficult for you to research?


Before the ACA I was paying less for healthcare, my deductables were HALF of what they are today and my medication cost less too. I thought the ACA was supposed to save me up to $2500 per year and reduce my out of pocket expenses?!?! ACA is a joke.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:25 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
I am a true classical liberal, a freedom loving patriot who believes in what this country was founded on, freedom, free markets, limited government and the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.


I'm a liberal too. I think wealth inequality in this country needs to be addressed. I don't care what the tactic used is to get this country back in balance. I don't care if we have complete government take over of many industries. As long as wealth inequality is addressed no issue is more important.

Money = liberty, happiness, freedom



I think FDR was a much better liberal than you any day of the week. Here's what FDR said a liberal was:



An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government.



Speech before the 1936 Democratic National Convention

The problems with our country are not rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. WE HAVE NO FREE MARKETS IN THE USA.

Let's be very clear as to what type of government we have in the USA:

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

Money talks. Everything you post is BS.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

FDR also set precedence for for big government bailouts, social welfare programs and was an advocate of peacetime military conscription.


edit on 31-5-2017 by toysforadults because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: BomSquad

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: underwerks

They shouldn't be taking our money to solve our problems the free market should be adapting and presenting the solution.

I have been working on a free market post for a while.


really?....a free market for healthcare?......that's what we had before Obama enacted the ACA...what do you think we had before that?....is history before 2010, too difficult for you to research?


Before the ACA I was paying less for healthcare, my deductables were HALF of what they are today and my medication cost less too. I thought the ACA was supposed to save me up to $2500 per year and reduce my out of pocket expenses?!?! ACA is a joke.


Plans that would not pay for hospital bills were not allowed. Sorry, but free loaders like you have to pay your fair share to use the hospital.


edit on 31-5-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: BomSquad

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: underwerks

They shouldn't be taking our money to solve our problems the free market should be adapting and presenting the solution.

I have been working on a free market post for a while.


really?....a free market for healthcare?......that's what we had before Obama enacted the ACA...what do you think we had before that?....is history before 2010, too difficult for you to research?


Before the ACA I was paying less for healthcare, my deductables were HALF of what they are today and my medication cost less too. I thought the ACA was supposed to save me up to $2500 per year and reduce my out of pocket expenses?!?! ACA is a joke.


Plans that would not pay for hospital bills were not allowed. Sorry, but free loaders like you have to pay your fair share to use the hospital.



I don't know where you get your information, but I had 2 surgeries while I was on that previous plan and it most certainly paid for my hospital stays....



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx
context needs to be applied here...let's remember that Jefferson owned slaves, and was a wealthy land owner.....if this is somehow your idea of a "classical liberal"...I think you have the wrong century.


Ad hominem. Classic attempt to derail all of the argument by attacking the source material: Jefferson, in an attempt to delegitimize it all through a fault you find with the person, not the arguments themselves.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Why is it that some of the bluest states have the largest margins of wealth inequality?



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: dfnj2015

Why is it that some of the bluest states have the largest margins of wealth inequality?


You obviously did not watch the video. Let see if I can fit 10 minutes of discussion into 140 characters. I can't do it. Sorry.

I will answer in one word: Corporations



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:42 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
They shouldn't be taking our money to solve our problems the free market should be adapting and presenting the solution.

Doesn't work.


I have been working on a free market post for a while.

Tempted to say, don't waste your time but I have the feeling I will be ignored.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:42 PM
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originally posted by: BomSquad

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: BomSquad

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: underwerks

They shouldn't be taking our money to solve our problems the free market should be adapting and presenting the solution.

I have been working on a free market post for a while.


really?....a free market for healthcare?......that's what we had before Obama enacted the ACA...what do you think we had before that?....is history before 2010, too difficult for you to research?


Before the ACA I was paying less for healthcare, my deductables were HALF of what they are today and my medication cost less too. I thought the ACA was supposed to save me up to $2500 per year and reduce my out of pocket expenses?!?! ACA is a joke.


Plans that would not pay for hospital bills were not allowed. Sorry, but free loaders like you have to pay your fair share to use the hospital.



I don't know where you get your information, but I had 2 surgeries while I was on that previous plan and it most certainly paid for my hospital stays....


Healthcare was rising 20% per year for the last 30 years. Every five years it doubles. Before and after the ACA was passed it still increased by 20%. Democrats wanted single payer. The compromise was the ACA. Costs would have been reduced if we had single payer.

I know you right wingers love to Shiite on the ACA that is Obamacare. But unless you are a complete moron you have consider what premiums were doing before ACA.


edit on 31-5-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: dfnj2015

Why is it that some of the bluest states have the largest margins of wealth inequality?


Where did you get this information? I don't believe it.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: BomSquad

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: BomSquad

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: underwerks

They shouldn't be taking our money to solve our problems the free market should be adapting and presenting the solution.

I have been working on a free market post for a while.


really?....a free market for healthcare?......that's what we had before Obama enacted the ACA...what do you think we had before that?....is history before 2010, too difficult for you to research?


Before the ACA I was paying less for healthcare, my deductables were HALF of what they are today and my medication cost less too. I thought the ACA was supposed to save me up to $2500 per year and reduce my out of pocket expenses?!?! ACA is a joke.


Plans that would not pay for hospital bills were not allowed. Sorry, but free loaders like you have to pay your fair share to use the hospital.



I don't know where you get your information, but I had 2 surgeries while I was on that previous plan and it most certainly paid for my hospital stays....


Healthcare was rising 20% per year for the last 30 years. Every five years it doubles. Before and after the ACA was passed it still increased by 20%. Democrats wanted single payer. The compromise was the ACA. Costs would have been reduced if we had single payer.

I know you right wingers love to Shiite on the ACA that is Obamacare. But unless you are complete moron your have consider the what premiums were doing before ACA.



You don't know me from Adam, so I don't know where you come off calling me a "right winger". What I do know is that one of the major claims was that the ACA was going to reduce health care costs and save families up to $2500 per year. Not only did health care costs NOT get reduced, but my family is paying much more today than I did in the past.

I certainly acknowledge that health care costs have been consistently rising year over year, but the ACA was supposed to fix that, was it not? Not only did it not fix the problem, it has exacerbated it. Believe me, I know. I work in health care!



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: toysforadults
They shouldn't be taking our money to solve our problems the free market should be adapting and presenting the solution.

Doesn't work.


I have been working on a free market post for a while.

Tempted to say, don't waste your time but I have the feeling I will be ignored.


There are not free markets. Only lobbyists writing legislation.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Source


The U.S. “health care cost crisis” didn’t start until 1965. The government increased demand with the passage of Medicare and Medicaid while restricting the supply of doctors and hospitals. Health care prices responded at twice the rate of inflation (Figure 1). Now, the U.S. is repeating the same mistakes with the unveiling of Obamacare (a.k.a. “Medicare and Medicaid for the middle class”).


Seems to be a direct correlation between government involvement (subsidization) and increased cost.

Guess this is what happens when the government get's involved in the free market.

Reminds me of something.. oh yeah... education cost.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

There never are, above the flea market level.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 01:06 PM
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Neo-liberalism isn't really anything to do with 'liberalism' though is it.

Confusion because of the name. But Neo-Liberalism really should be called something different.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: Christosterone

You along with many others may have missed an important point about the current state of affairs. Progressives and "liberals" are the antithesis to Jeffersonian liberalism which was a product of Western Civilization as it had progressed philosophically through the 18th Century. The people who call themselves "Progressives" and "Liberals" today are altogether opposed to Western Civilization. They see it as root of all societal evils, the patriarchy, slavery, colonialism, nationalism...etc. ad nauseum.

What they are at their core is Anti-Western Civilization Cultural Marxists. We are witnessing the mother of all Culture wars, the Culture war to end all Culture wars if they succeed.

When you think about what's happening in these terms, every thing starts to become much more clear. I could go on for hours, but it explains such things as their Open Borders campaign, Globalism v. Nationalism, their embrace of Islam to counter the religions of Western Civilization, their social construct of White privilege designed to erode if not topple what they see as the White Establishment as it exists in Government and Business.

And all those things they are against are, at their core, out growths of the evolution of European Western Civilization and the values systems upon which it has for centuries relied.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: dfnj2015

Why is it that some of the bluest states have the largest margins of wealth inequality?


Where did you get this information? I don't believe it.


California.

You are either very wealthy or very poor. There is barely any middle class left.




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