It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

As a Liberal, I am disgusted with the current state of neo-liberalism

page: 1
13
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 31 2017 @ 10:59 AM
link   
I am a true classical liberal, a freedom loving patriot who believes in what this country was founded on, freedom, free markets, limited government and the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.

Before we get started allow me to acknowledge the fact that yes I do post about the negative impact of debating labels is having on our current political and cultural climate and that it is in fact detrimental to the overall health of our culture. This is not the point of my thread, the point of my thread is to discuss the principles by which we apply these labels to.

For me true American liberalism is most closely principled and defined through Jeffersonian (classical) liberalism;


To Jefferson, protecting the natural rights and power of the individuals was the primary purpose of government. Jefferson wanted equal voting for all, with each and every person the same ability to be a part of the democracy. Concentration of wealth, and financial influence on democracy, which are accepted practices in modern society, would not have been permitted in the Jefferson presidency. Jefferson was a liberal for the general welfare of all people at any cost. He was a man who hated government favoritism given to bankers or industrialists, and equated this favoritism to the path to the monarchy he had just fought against. Jeffersonian principles are misunderstood, and misused to support big business, even though this staunch agrarian hated urbanization. He feared industrialization as the root of corruption.


Jefferson believed that the role of government was to protect the rights of humans, not to regulate and grant them. In today's America we do not have a government that protects our rights rather we have a government that grants them. This is the antithesis of our current political paradigm and the modern rule of law where government believes they grant us our right, in another words a tyranny. I do not believe that Jefferson believed in wealth redistribution, higher taxation (theft) and social welfare. Jefferson was a major proponent of rugged individualism, free market capitalism and self governance. Nowhere in that ideology is high taxation, government subsidy, social welfare, regulation and corporate welfare.


Also in offense was the Alien Act. Of this, he said the government cannot "remove a person out of the United States, who is under accusation without jury, without public trial, without confrontation of witnesses against him, without hearing witnesses in his favor, without defence, without counsel, is contrary to the provision also of the Constitution, is therefore not law, but utterly void, and of no force" (Portable Jefferson 285).


Now here is where we may find common ground with what I call Millennial Liberalism (not a reference to Millennials but a reference to our time period). After taking a long hard look at immigration and the beliefs of classical liberalism I personally encountered a juxtaposition with my own failed philosophy. The idea of freedom and liberty means you can live how you please without government involved unless proven otherwise by the courts and due process. I believe these rights were meant to protect anyone in our country.


Thomas Jefferson is known for his limiting of federal power and decentralization. The main fear of our revolutionary founding fathers was still fresh in their minds: the tyranny of the King. Much of their actions to limit power were taken from their experience in dealing with a monarchy. Some argue that decentralization weakens a government, but Jefferson responded to this in his first inaugural address: "I believe this… the strongest government on earth. I believe it is the one where every man… would meet invasions of the public order as his own personal concern. Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question" (Portable Jefferson 292).


Once again we see that one of the axioms of Classical Liberalism is the principles of limited government. Not the centralization of power and redistribution of wealth, the welfare state and government as a solution to individual problems.

It's not the governments job to solve our problems. It's not the government jobs to provide you with healthcare, higher education and food, it's not the governments job to subsidize the free market, to tax us and to tell us how and when we can spend our money.


Most Americans in the early 1790’s did not want parties. Not only the exalted George Washington, who was trying to be President of all people, but Jefferson, Hamilton, and Madison railed against the spirit of party. ‘If I could not go to heaven but with a party,’ Jefferson exclaimed, ‘I would not go there at all.’ An anonymous Philadelphian spoke for many Americas when he wrote in a local paper: ‘We want no Ticket Mongers: let every citizen exercise his own judgement, and we shall have a good representation- intrigue, favoritism, cabal and part will be at rest.’ Part stood for selfish and petty maneuver. (Deadlock 27)


True liberals are not Democrats, Republicans or Libertarians, true liberals are rugged individualist who stand alone to fight the injustices of government expansionism and centralization.



"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787


Jefferson believed in heavily armed populace and well regulated militia's.



"Nor is it conceived needful or safe that a standing army should be kept up in time of peace for [defense against invasion]." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Annual Message, 1801. ME 3:334

"Standing armies [are] inconsistent with [a people's] freedom and subversive of their quiet." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Lord North's Proposition, 1775. Papers 1:231


A giant standing army and military industrial complex goes against the building blocks of our country was built on. A true liberal is a well trained gun owning rugged individual ready to stand against tyranny and water the tree of liberty with his own blood.







edit on 31-5-2017 by toysforadults because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:02 AM
link   
I believe that liberalism died the second the mainstream media in the United States started doing everything in their power to impeach a legally elected president of country, and when those claiming to be liberals said there would be violence and riots in France in case Marine le Pen had won.

Liberalism is dead



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:04 AM
link   
a reply to: Nikola014

Well first off you couldn't have read the thread and it's source material but I'll let that slide.

Secondly our country relies on a well informed populace and the current state of our media couldn't exist if we had a well informed populace.

It's our job to stop the media.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:05 AM
link   
context needs to be applied here...let's remember that Jefferson owned slaves, and was a wealthy land owner.....if this is somehow your idea of a "classical liberal"...I think you have the wrong century.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:05 AM
link   
My parents are southern democrats in a long line of southern democrats...

I, however, am a conservative...

Progressivism and liberalism have merged with Marxism and seek to control every aspect of life....this is the ethos of the new left.
They seek this control through every means at their disposal from creation of the welfare state to environmentalism wherein they can control every single action one takes, including breathing if they so desire to frame a progressive canonical necessity inline with their groupthink...

It is inarguable and truly terrifying for the democrats who are classically liberal...

But I digress...

Progressivism is a morally bankrupt ethos bent on the promotion of Stone Age cultism(radical Islam) and the dissolution of the high west who split the atom and walked on the moon...

-Chris



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:06 AM
link   
a reply to: toysforadults

Both parties have evolved to the point all either cares about is power.

Neither have tried to do anything significant for their "platform" in decades if you ask me.

Then again, both have been bought off by the same industries because apparently money is free speech.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:06 AM
link   
a reply to: toysforadults

These people aren't liberals, that just the title they hide behind.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:06 AM
link   
a reply to: jimmyx

Link


Thomas Jefferson was a consistent opponent of slavery. Calling it a “moral depravity”1 and a “hideous blot,”2 he believed that slavery presented the greatest threat to the survival of the new American nation.3 Jefferson also thought that slavery was contrary to the laws of nature, which decreed that everyone had a right to personal liberty.4 These views were radical in a world where unfree labor was the norm.



At the time of the American Revolution, Jefferson was actively involved in legislation that he hoped would result in slavery’s abolition.5 In 1778, he drafted a Virginia law that prohibited the importation of enslaved Africans.6 In 1784, he proposed an ordinance that would ban slavery in the Northwest territories.7 But Jefferson always maintained that the decision to emancipate slaves would have to be part of a democratic process; abolition would be stymied until slaveowners consented to free their human property together in a large-scale act of emancipation. To Jefferson, it was anti-democratic and contrary to the principles of the American Revolution for the federal government to enact abolition or for only a few planters to free their slaves.8



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: Christosterone

Progressivism and liberalism have merged with Marxism and seek to control every aspect of life....this is the ethos of the new left.


Exactly
edit on 31-5-2017 by o0oTOPCATo0o because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:08 AM
link   

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Nikola014

Well first off you couldn't have read the thread and it's source material but I'll let that slide.

Secondly our country relies on a well informed populace and the current state of our media couldn't exist if we had a well informed populace.

It's our job to stop the media.


wha???....how can anyone be "well-informed" without someone "informing" them of what's happening?.....logic is your friend, might want to try and use it



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:09 AM
link   
If I pay out 30-40% of the money I make over my lifetime to the government, the least they can do is take care of some doctor bills..



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:10 AM
link   
a reply to: underwerks

They shouldn't be taking our money to solve our problems the free market should be adapting and presenting the solution.

I have been working on a free market post for a while.
edit on 31-5-2017 by toysforadults because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: toysforadults
A giant standing army and military industrial complex goes against the building blocks of our country was built on. A true liberal is a well trained gun owning rugged individual ready to stand against tyranny and water the tree of liberty with his own blood.



Great post- I wish more people felt the same way you did. Unfortunately, the word "liberal" is smeared beyond any recognition, and you might as well find a new word to describe your views.
A true liberal, from your description, would stand for self reliance, and strive to never rely on the government for food and housing- yet still provide tax dollars to provide those services to those in need.

These days, people identifying as liberal are more likely to demand free food and housing, and never pay a dime to help others.





posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:13 AM
link   
a reply to: lordcomac

We are taking it back.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: toysforadults

Both parties have evolved to the point all either cares about is power.

Neither have tried to do anything significant for their "platform" in decades if you ask me.

Then again, both have been bought off by the same industries because apparently money is free speech.




then move, i'm so tired of people here bitching about how bad everything about America is....F'in move, and don't let the door hit you in the ass



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:22 AM
link   
a reply to: jimmyx

Nope. Sorry. Some of us have the will and fortitude to work to make it better.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:24 AM
link   

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: toysforadults

Both parties have evolved to the point all either cares about is power.

Neither have tried to do anything significant for their "platform" in decades if you ask me.

Then again, both have been bought off by the same industries because apparently money is free speech.




then move, i'm so tired of people here bitching about how bad everything about America is....F'in move, and don't let the door hit you in the ass


Funny thing about being a patriot is you have to acknowledge what's wrong before you can make it right.

To counter your point, I wish all the apathetic ones would move. Those "Rah Rah Rah this is the greatest country in the world, keep it the exact way it is" Dumbasses.

My guess is you might know them pretty well.

I guess I never answered, I'm not moving, and I'm not shutting up.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: jimmyx

Nope. Sorry. Some of us have the will and fortitude to work to make it better.



Your response was way more eloquent than mine hahaha.



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:32 AM
link   

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: underwerks

They shouldn't be taking our money to solve our problems the free market should be adapting and presenting the solution.

I have been working on a free market post for a while.


really?....a free market for healthcare?......that's what we had before Obama enacted the ACA...what do you think we had before that?....is history before 2010, too difficult for you to research?



posted on May, 31 2017 @ 11:32 AM
link   
a reply to: Christosterone

It's posts like these that highlight the problems with political discourse these days.

To say that liberalism has merged with Marxism is absolute hogwash. You guys wouldn't know Marxism if it bit you in the ass. That way of thinking is part of the Right Wing propaganda that likes to uses socialism/Marxism as a scare tactic. Same goes for the use of "radical Islam".

You guys like to sit high in your ivory towers, wrapped in your own arrogance, and talk about others being morally bankrupt, yet you fail to see how your own morals are flawed.

And you are not a conservative. I know of only two real conservatives on this site and you are not one of them.



new topics

top topics



 
13
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join