49 shot in Chicago over Memorial Day weekend — and that's a sign of progress

a reply to: incoserv

On that note we certainly agree.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I don't need to really do anything, here Guns are illegal to carry on the street so our kids are not really being effected in the same manner or number that your own kids and young adults are. Guns are still an issue just not as prevalent an issue as in the USA.

That's not a poke at your system of law, just simple fact.

Could always ban the sale of bullets to the public, i'm sure in a couple of centuries supply would become an issue. But you industrious Americans would simply fashion your own i suppose.

Joking aside something needs to be done.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

So what does slavery 500 years ago have to do with these shootings over Memorial Day weekend? Please help me to understand your logic here because slavery was never the topic and you know it.

Sorry you can't admit that you are wrong or fess up to moving the goalposts but that's exactly what you did. Have a good one, I see the denial is strong in you and know it will be a waste of time continuing this discussion.

Unfortunately, the delta is statistically insignificant for one and the very probably reason for the decline is the lousy weather this year. Last year was very warm and mostly dry with a lot more outside, group activities.

a reply to: MysticPearl

Well let me ask you this then. I've spent a lot of time in Bulgaria, Russia and Italy. Know what's common in those places? Insane drivers with little respect for others or apparently, little respect for the value of their own lives.

I've seen absolutely insane driving in those places on a regular basis. But even with that lack of respect on the roadways they aren't going around shooting one another at even 5% of the rate we see in Chicago.

So what's your theory as to why lack of respect on the roadways leads to massive shootings in Chicago but has no apparent correlation elsewhere?

You're trying to cross-compare cultures.

In many of the worst traffic cities around the world, the insane driving is due to a lack of regulation... they simply don't have (want?) as many laws as we do. Here in America, we drive on the right side of the road, between lines painted on the road, expecting firm, semi-level asphalt, based on a specified speed limit, with the expectation that certain activities have the right of way. We're taught that from youth. Is that the same in Bulgaria? Do they have similar laws?

Disrespect is not continuously expressed across cultures. Disrespect is absolute disregard for accepted cultural ideals. In India, where cows are sacred, eating a hamburger is disrespectful, but here it is no big deal. In Iran, eating bacon is disrespectful, but here it's a heavenly experience.

I cannot comment either way on whether Bulgarian traffic is indicative of respect or disrespect. I have no cultural reference under which to make that call. I can comment thusly on Chicago traffic, because the cultural aspect of travel by motor vehicle is consistent across the US and I am thusly familiar with the cultural aspects.

I do not directly attribute crime rates to driving patterns; I only point out that the driving as well as the crime indicates a lack of respect. Two unrelated symptoms, with one common cause.

I'd add, even by Chicago poverty standards I've been in poorer areas in Bulgaria and Russia. My wife's grandparents didn't even have indoor plumbing. That's right, want to drop a deuce, go squat in the out-house. We actually just bought that house and I'll have to find a way to build an indoor bathroom. And guess what? That poverty there again doesn't lead to shooting one another. Outside the odd mafia hit there are no shootings for the most part. They gypsy villages are one of the saddest things I've seen, far worse than any Chicago poverty and they don't go around shooting or killing others either. So poverty isn't the reason.

That's my point. Poverty alone is not the cause. Being poor is not the same as disrespecting others; indeed, in my youth, it was the poor who typically held the most respect for others. Poverty only serves as an excuse when disrespect already exists.

Seems to me it's culture. Inner city American culture which worships gang life and puts no value on stable families and education.

Agreed. A subculture of disrespect that has appeared in our midst. And we need desperately to stop it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: andy06shake

Guns are illegal to carry on the street so our kids are not really being effected in the same manner or number that your own kids and young adults are.

Guns are illegal to carry on the streets of Chicago, too.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Well that does not seem to be stopping them doing so or using them to commit killings.

Illegal or otherwise to carry they are not exactly hard to get a hold of nether considering the black, white, and grey market that surrounds there distribution.

Don't get me wrong guns are still an issue in my own nation, just not in the same manner or numbers.

a reply to: andy06shake

Well that does not seem to be stopping them doing so or using them to commit killings.

That is exactly what gun control opponents have been saying. Gun control laws do not work, primarily because criminals don't follow the law. That's the definition of criminal.

If someone decides to shoot people, they have already decided to violate a law that has extremely severe punishment. How is a law with less punishment going to stop them? "If I get caught for killing these people, I could be killed or at least spend the rest of my life in prison. No problem. I'll go get a gun... oh, no! A year in jail if I get caught with a gun! I better think again!" Sorry, that just doesn't make a lick of sense.

We don't need less guns; we need less people who use them to kill other people.

Illegal or otherwise to carry they are not exactly hard to get a hold of nether considering the black, white, and grey market that surrounds there distribution.

You can't put that genie back in the bottle. Guns are made of steel... steel is far, far too useful and pervasive to outlaw. So is carbon, so is saltpeter, so is sulfur... gunpowder.

EVERYTHING YOU SEE AVAILABLE FOR SALE WAS MADE BY PEOPLE. I can't stress that enough. I have the ability to build a fully operational tank if I want to bad enough. I just don't want to spend that kind of time and energy and resources to build a tank. I have everything I need to build a gun, right here, right now. Not some cheap bang-stick... a fully operational, quality firearm. I just don't want to.

And if I can do it, anyone can do it. It's not physically possible to remove guns from society. All we can do is make them harder to get/make, which means only the criminals, who really, really want them, will have them.

What we need to do is give people a chance to find hope. Hope that they can get a good job someday and make money honestly. Hope that the government won't oppress them if they try to get ahead. Hope that they can count on fair treatment.

Instead, we give the inner city institutionalized poverty, massive oppression and withdrawal of their benefits if they even try to get ahead, the constant threat of violence from uncontrolled crime, and police who act as though they are guilty before even establishing a crime was committed. Heck, police are legally allowed to seize money without any indication of an actual crime based on their lone impression that a crime might be committed in the future!

There's the problem: hopelessness that leads to disrespect; the law of the jungle. Blaming guns for the problem is like trying get a car with a blown motor to run by changing a tire.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Perfectenemy
It would be much safer for the innocent citizens to just abandon Chicago and leave the criminals to their own devices. When they keep killing each other at least nothing of value would be lost. Just move back in when they are done. Problem solved.

That's just silly. We visit Chicago every summer for a Cubs series, and hang out all over the downtown area. Not once have i ever felt unsafe. Not much different than Dallas, Houston, NYC, or anywhere else really. If you go hang out in the slums of town, your mileage my vary, and you might just find yourself a crime victim. Outside of that, your odds of having a perfectly enjoyable time are pretty good.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: xuenchen

It's the guns buddy, second amendment or otherwise, the problems self evident really.

The problem is self evident and it isn't guns.

It is the kind of people/culture who commit these crimes.

a reply to: usernameconspiracy

When I see people worried about crime in Chicago it is clear they really know nothing about the city. Yes, the murder rate is high, but practically all those murders occur in areas that no tourist or normal person would ever venture. The neighborhoods with the gangs/crime are literally about 10 miles west and 10 miles south of the core of the city. Absolutely no where near the area of the city that people think about when you say "Chicago".

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: xuenchen

Non the less they do the same damage legal or otherwise.

I get that Americans hold with the right to bear arms, but at some point you need to consider the damage that these weapons legal or otherwise inflict upon your population.

Fact is a significant percentage of the people who commit firearms offences are way to crazy to be allowed to carry such weaponry, legally or otherwise.

Edit: On reflection that's a lot of "legally or otherwise" statements from me. LoL

And i get that the majority of people will disagree with my assessment regarding the matter but the facts are self evident.

Yeah I mean; I get what you're saying but here is what you don't seem to grasp -- Guns are real and cannot be deleted. No law or rule is going to suddenly make guns stop existing.

a reply to: SRPrime

Murder is real, crucifixion was real and we stopped, for all intents and purposes, killing one another via that method centuries ago.

Why would i not grasp that guns are real? No they cannot be deleted, they can even be printed these days truth be told.

If the US cannot address the problem in an meaningful manner, using the law, or by instituting an amendment to the current law, how do you propose to tackle the problem?

a reply to: ErrorErrorError

Can you not read?

I didn't mention race. Then you reply about racism and black people?

Why do libs always result to shifting to racism?

a reply to: TheRedneck

I think cross-comparing cultures plays into this. If there were to be a connection between crazy Chi drivers and murder rate, I'd expect it to hold up elsewhere.

There is a lack of regulation on the roadways elsewhere. I can also see, from my experience at least, in some of these countries there's a lower value put on life. Can't tell you how many times in Bulgaria/Italy I see cars flying thru crosswalks at 60 MPR while old women are crossing, or cars pass you going 100+ MPR on the shoulder on the freeway. There's a different definition of danger over there stemming from less value put on your own life and the lives of others.

Still, doesn't end with shootings. It's not just the countries I mentioned either. One of the rudest and most selfish cultures when it comes to driving is in China. There again, no connection to shootings.

I'm not saying you're wrong and there's no connection with Chi drivers and shooters, just offering a more global perspective which from my eyes doesn't support that theory.

I'd add, in theory if Chi were to ban cars tomorrow and everyone had to use public transportation and bikes, I doubt the murder rate goes down.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Hey Jackass -- Chicago Shootings active ongoing lists

Chicago is so famous, we have our own shootings website !!

Thanks for posting the link.

I get a laugh at Chicago.

I have two friends that were born and raised in Chicago.

One now lives in Texas and the other lives in a rural part of Calif.

Nether plan ever to go back to Chicago because they can not take there guns with them.

a reply to: andy06shake
sorry but no chicago has some of strictest hand gun laws in the country. chicago criminals know this so they are not detered from using illegal guns because they know odds are they will not get shot by guy they robbing also they know odds ar they will not see a cop respond quickly enough to catch them also chicago is full of corruption. wht can fix theis make chicago an open carry zone give anybody give wants it firearm training as long as they not felons. a crook less likely to rob some dude if they have a hog leg strapped to their hip.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
no one is saying that but truth be told the cities with the most shootings are usually the ones with strictest gun laws because criminals are a cowardly lot and if they afraid of getting shot that might keep them from robbing someone or some business. in my town we have a locally owned convenience store that is real popular the owner has two cashiers that operate from an island of counters towards the front of store when you purchase stuff from one counter you can see there is a semi auto shotgun under the opposite and when you on that side you see the counter you just left has a .44 magnum this store in 40+ years has never been robbed but the chain convenience stores within a mile or two of this store have all been robbed multiple times why because they have a strict no guns in store policy on the door and everyone knows the chains do not allow clerks to be armed for liability reasons.

What I would like to know is what the police are doing that supposedly has made these shootings and killings go down.


They get to the crimes quicker.

So what the deeds already done.

I think the supposed shootings reduction is statistically insignificant