Please, there is absolutely 0 hard evidence that any of these secret societies exist. Oh I'm sure there are probably some sort of secret societies but I seriously doubt they have any kind of true power.

The NWO however is the most ridiculous claim I have ever heard in my life. Let me guess, most of you think that every Republican is in the NWO and that they are all evil evil people and that Democrats are perfectly normal people.

I have never ever seen anyone talk about a liberal being a part of a secret society, let alone the NWO. All of this crap is just fabricated to try and deface and ruin the public image of Conservatives. Liberals are trying to make it out like Conservatives have this grand plan for the world and that they must be stopped. Please, what utter BS.

The NWO doesn't exist people, either accept it and come back to live in the real world, or don't and live in fantasy land and live the rest of your life as an ignorant dumbass.

Actually if you look deeper into the subject you'll find that this has nothing to do Republicans and Democrats. They are nothing according to the grand NWO plan (whether you believe one exists or not) they are merely pawns who the shadows manipulate to get things done in the US, they use Dems when it suits them and Repubs at other times. When trying to understand Secret societies or NWO theories throw out all politics and focus on the grand prize.. What do "they" want.. POWER and nothing more. How you gain and keep that power is inconsequential. It is the power that matters, not ideas, or politics.

[Edited on 27-6-2003 by observer]

There is the fact that Foster Bailey said, clearly and unmistakeably, that Freemasonry is working to bring about a New World Order, in The Spirit of Masonry.

There is the fact that Manly P. Hall described this New World Order in Lectures on Ancient Philosophy.

This indicates that you don't know what you're talking about, you haven't done your homework, and you should slink away and shut the ( heck ) up.

Originally posted by Vander
Let me guess, most of you think that every Republican is in the NWO and that they are all evil evil people and that Democrats are perfectly normal people.

Well, in fact, I was thinking the opposite.

The dem are the evil ones who want to bring us their $*ù%µ£ NWO and the rep the good ones who'll protect us all from these evil dem.

Now that got your attention didnt it?

seriously though, i believe that there is some kind of NWO. i also believe that (unfortunately) the USA is its main tool. if you look at events post WW2, you may see the creation of an 'American empire' taking place. this empire allows them to be in charge of the world (almost)

personally i pity my american brothers who think that their world is only consisting of their car, house etc. just because the NWO tell them so

Originally posted by Researcher

This indicates that you don't know what you're talking about, you haven't done your homework, and you should slink away and shut the ( heck ) up.

Well, I don't agree with your theory but I do believe that there is a hidden force pushing us in a direction.
I guess you could call that the NWO.

Evidence seems to point out that events that take place today, are planned decades ahead. This takes the Republicans, the Democrats and general politics as we perceive it out of the equation.

There is something much larger and much more powerful at work. It encompasses nations.
What it is, I don't yet know, but I have my suspicions.

Researcher. The reason I dont agree with you is that you believe that the NWO is masonic. I don't. I believe that if masonry is involved (of which I see no proof other than the involvement of man) there is probably a higher power guiding it. Masonry is probably another tool. Another step.
I don't believe that those who are steering events are visible to us unless they want us to see them.
The NWO could just be the beginning of a hidden structure of power.


One thing you have to remember and keep an open mind about - most people here see the NWO as a sinister movement because it is secret and they don't understand it and they therefore fear it. That is probably why they drag freemasonry into the equation - it has a similar meaning to them.

I made my own mind up about the NWO and what is behind it. I believe something so old has had time to learn about us and understands what is best for us. I believe that it's ultimate goal is our happiness.

Well i have to say that i personally dont think that the freemasons are a bad group, there has just been far too many myths surrounding them...

So apparently the whole idea behind the NWO is that it is a US led idea and that the US is evil and wants to control the world? What a load of BS, no where is there ANY hard evidence of this, period, end of discussion. On top of that I see absolutely no indication that we are heading in that direction.

When are you people going to understand, there is no secret society trying to push for an NWO. Oh I'm sure there are people out there who would like the world to be under a 1 world government but there is no secret society of very powerful people trying to do this.

Some of you people are too paranoid about the government and you need to loosen up.

Hmmm, whats that old proverb say......?

"One man's mysticism is another man's mystification."

My advice would be to lay off reading so much from www.skeptics-r-us! Its been further said, that it is far easier to be a skeptic then one who actually wishes to know the truth............

As One Seeing Eye has mentioned before: "Ignorance is the 'root' of all evil." Not that I fully subscribe to that but I would diffently say that ignorance is a 'tool' used by many to keep from seeing 'truth'.

skep.tic -- skep'tik -- 1) a member of any of the ancient Greek philosophical schools that denied or denies the possibility of real knowledge of any kind. 2) a person who believes in or practices philosophical skepticism. 3) a person who habitually doubts, questions, or suspends judgement upon matters generally accepted. 4) a person who doubts religious doctrines.

regards
seekerof

BTW Vander, the one asserting the fact that something or anything is not true or is BS or etc., is also the one who is responsible for providing the proof. As per your starting this topic/thread.

IF you don't believe that this 'stuff' has any merit, how about provide the 'proof' and/or evidences to go along with/ or back up the stance you are currently taking and have been taking on various other topics. To merely spout out that one doesn't believe without providing any such proofs or evidences to back up your denials, then all your doing is giving a postulation and that merely amounts to an opinion.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 27-6-2003 by Seekerof]

Vander, it appears to me you are new to the concept and are basing your assumptions on a couple erroneous notions thrown to you by equally half-cocked people.

First off, as observer stated, nobody (here, that I am aware of) has said that the Republicans are the evil NWO's and the Democrats are the "normal" ones. Far be it, and more to the opposite, as far as preparing the American society for the NWO. That doesn't mean the Rebublicans are innocent, they are just the ones "they" put in charge when the citizenry as a general start to choke on the bullcrap.

As far as the U.S. being the heart of the NWO, you are really new to this conspiracy theory thing, aren't you? The U.S. is a relative newcomer to the scene, much newer than the established powers and bloodlines, wealth, and international bankers.

It can't get any simpler than this:

Freemasons at the top rank of Freemasonry state in writing that there is an ancient plan to create one world government with one world religion;

AKA the New World order;

Freemasonry is the flagship of the fleet of secret societies involved;

Freemasonry is controlled by the Illuminati;

NWO to be headed by the King of This World, AKA Sanat Kumara.

When the big dogs publish it in books they publish themselves, it's beyond pointless to deny it.

Refusal to accept reality does not alter reality.

Originally posted by Researcher
When the big dogs publish it in books they publish themselves, it's beyond pointless to deny it.

Refusal to accept reality does not alter reality.

Some books are works of fiction.
A book proves nothing to me. Never has, never will. It may influence my way of thinking but it doesn't give me reality.

Still. It doesn't mean to say that I entirely disagree with you or totally discount your opinion. I just see the evidence pointing elsewhere for now.

By Leveller: "I believe that it's ultimate goal is our happiness."

Yeah. I'm sure they sit around all the time wondering how to make ol' TC happy. That is what ultra-rich and powerful people in secret organizations do all the time. Everyone knows the only way to figure out how to make people happy is to form a secret organization or two, or three, and form little old blood banker committees!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Yeah. I'm sure they sit around all the time wondering how to make ol' TC happy. That is what ultra-rich and powerful people in secret organizations do all the time. Everyone knows the only way to figure out how to make people happy is to form a secret organization or two, or three, and form little old blood banker committees!

Well if we ain't happy, we ain't gonna make 'em money are we?

Don't worry. I'm sure they're working on bringing down the prices on BBQs and beer.


[Edited on 27-6-2003 by Leveller]

Two small points.

1. I agree with most of you that the promulgation of a "NWO" is not a party-political thing. BUT it is a group of corrupt, deceitful and desperate people in the current Bush administration who have been most active in promoting their version of the "NWO". They leave it up in black and white (or red, white and blue) for all to see on this wonderful new contraption called 'the internet'.

See PNAC (Project For A New American Century) for all the glorious details before you dismiss the US involvement in "NWO".

2. Freemasonry isn't part of the PNAC plan being promulgated by the Bush administration.

The 33rd degree writers that Researcher quotes are dead and buried. They have no active influence over the Craft today. The Craft continues to expand and contract and work its way through all the hassles of any voluntary or service organisation which is competing with thousands of other time-hungry interests and hobbies - independently in each country - without reference to those writers. There is no peak all-seeing all-knowing body of 33rd degree Freemasons plotting to take over this planet. That must be a disappointment to some.

* I just fixed this post to say that it is Researcher quoting old Masonic writings, not Observer *

[Edited on 27-6-2003 by MaskedAvatar]

1) There is no NWO. In 50 BC people would be saying the same thing about Rome. That some "unseen society of powerful men is driving Rome to Empire".

Completely untrue.

Everything happening today has happend before, it is quite common. The wealthy band together through marriages and business, nations merge, people form stronger societies by taking down what is deemed acceptable barriers.

What prevented a large scale "world order" as we are seeing today, is in the past people were RACIST, they did not speak eachother's LANGUAGES, and they had CULTURES of their own.

If you want to stop this mythical "NWO" I suggest you join the KKK or never learn any other langauge other than your own, nor any other culture other than your own.

For it was this localized society that gave birth to the multitude of societies we so now see dying. This is a phenomena not seen in such a large scale since Rome, and is no different than Rome.

You're just going to have to learn to live with it.

2) Researcher, I'm sure you do a lot of Research or something but it is obvious to me that it is very biased. You must see only that which you wish to see.

First off Bailey, and Hall are not "power elite" masons.

If there were such a mason (remember now it's a brotherhood of equals), the elite would be the Royal Family of England.

Not some American Cousins who achieve the 33rd degree, a title awarded to those in the Scottish rite (an appendage that most masons have no clue exists, and for a very good reason).

A 33rd Degree mason has no authority over any Grand Master, and in England that Grand Master is the Duke of Kent...and he is the Grand Master there for life unless Prince Charles or William should join. And he is only a Master Mason.

So much for your Research good Sir. I suggest you research unbiasedly from now on.

Well I guess I don't really need to cover what has already been covered.

Just one question.

Could we start a score card for how many newbies T.C. barbeques on that big ol' Grill o his?

[Edited on 27-6-2003 by Fry2]

"1) There is no NWO. "

I'm convinced.

*rolls eyes*

'After the Twin Towers went down, Gary Hart was on C-Span. C-Span was broadcasting the Council On Foreign Relations Meeting that took place a few days after. Hart speaks again on how terrorists will likely attack the U.S. Mainland, Reading again from the report New World Coming as I explained above. Hart Then made a quote straight from left field.'

Hart said, "There is a chance for the President of the United States to use this disaster to carry out what his father (George Herbert Walker Bush)....a phrase his father used .. I think only once.. and hasn't been used since.. and that is a New World Order"


"The old world order changed when this war-storm broke. The old international order passed away as suddenly, as unexpectedly, and as completely as if it had been wiped out by a gigantic flood, by a great tempest, or by a volcanic eruption. The old world order died with the setting of that day's sun and a new world order is being born while I speak, with birth-pangs so terrible that it seems almost incredible that life could come out of such fearful suffering and such overwhelming sorrow." -- Nicholas Murray Butler, in an address delivered before the Union League of Philadelphia, Nov. 27, 1915

"The peace conference has assembled. It will make the most momentous decisions in history, and upon these decisions will rest the stability of the new world order and the future peace of the world." -- M. C. Alexander, Executive Secretary of the American Association for International Conciliation, in a subscription letter for the periodical International Conciliation (1919)



"If there are those who think we are to jump immediately into a new world order, actuated by complete understanding and brotherly love, they are doomed to disappointment. If we are ever to approach that time, it will be after patient and persistent effort of long duration. The present international situation of mistrust and fear can only be corrected by a formula of equal status, continuously applied, to every phase of international contacts, until the cobwebs of the old order are brushed out of the minds of the people of all lands." -- Dr. Augustus O. Thomas, president of the World Federation of Education Associations (August 1927), quoted in the book "International Understanding: Agencies Educating for a New World" (1931)


"The existing order is breaking down at a very rapid rate, and the main uncertainty is whether mankind can exert a positive role in shaping a new world order or is doomed to await collapse in a passive posture. We believe a new order will be born no later than early in the next century and that the death throes of the old and the birth pangs of the new will be a testing time for the human species." -- Richard A. Falk, in an article entitled "Toward a New World Order: Modest Methods and Drastic Visions," in the book "On the Creation of a Just World Order" (1975)


"... when the struggle seems to be drifting definitely towards a world social democracy, there may still be very great delays and disappointments before it becomes an efficient and beneficent world system. Countless people ... will hate the new world order ... and will die protesting against it. When we attempt to evaluate its promise, we have to bear in mind the distress of a generation or so of malcontents, many of them quite gallant and graceful-looking people." -- H. G. Wells, in his book entitled "The New World Order" (1939)


"My country's history, Mr. President, tells us that it is possible to fashion unity while cherishing diversity, that common action is possible despite the variety of races, interests, and beliefs we see here in this chamber. Progress and peace and justice are attainable. So we say to all peoples and governments: Let us fashion together a new world order." -- Henry Kissinger, in address before the General Assembly of the United Nations, October 1975)


"At the old Inter-American Office in the Commerce Building here in Roosevelt's time, as Assistant Secretary of State for Latin American Affairs under President Truman, as chief whip with Adlai Stevenson and Tom Finletter at the founding of the United Nations in San Francisco, Nelson Rockefeller was in the forefront of the struggle to establish not only an American system of political and economic security but a new world order." -- part of article in the New York Times (November 1975)



"Further global progress is now possible only through a quest for universal consensus in the movement towards a new world order." -- Mikhail Gorbachev, in an address at the United Nations (December 1988)


"We can see beyond the present shadows of war in the Middle East to a new world order where the strong work together to deter and stop aggression. This was precisely Franklin Roosevelt's and Winston Churchill's vision for peace for the post-war period." -- Richard Gephardt, in the Wall Street Journal (September 1990)

)

"The United Nations, he told an audience at Harvard University, 'has not been able--nor can it be able--to shape a new world order which events so compellingly demand.' ... The new world order that will answer economic, military, and political problems, he said, 'urgently requires, I believe, that the United States take the leadership among all free peoples to make the underlying concepts and aspirations of national sovereignty truly meaningful through the federal approach.'" -- Gov. Nelson Rockefeller of New York, in an article entitled "Rockefeller Bids Free Lands Unite: Calls at Harvard for Drive to Build New World Order" -- New York Times (February 1962)


"If we do not follow the dictates of our inner moral compass and stand up for human life, then his lawlessness will threaten the peace and democracy of the emerging new world order we now see, this long dreamed-of vision we've all worked toward for so long." -- President George Bush (January 1991)



"The developing coherence of Asian regional thinking is reflected in a disposition to consider problems and loyalties in regional terms, and to evolve regional approaches to development needs and to the evolution of a new world order." -- Richard Nixon, in Foreign Affairs (October 1967)


"I would support a Presidential candidate who pledged to take the following steps: ... At the end of the war in the Persian Gulf, press for a comprehensive Middle East settlement and for a 'new world order' based not on Pax Americana but on peace through law with a stronger U.N. and World Court." -- George McGovern, in the New York Times (February 1991)

The "new world order that is in the making must focus on the creation of a world of democracy, peace and prosperity for all." -- Nelson Mandela, in the Philadelphia Inquirer (October 1994)

The renewal of the nonproliferation treaty was described as important "for the welfare of the whole world and the new world order." -- President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, in the New York Times (April 1995)


"We are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money." -- Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., in Foreign Affairs (July/August 1995)


"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a LUCIFERIAN Initiation." (David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations)

"By the end of this decade (2000 AD) we will live under the first One World Government that has ever existed in the society of nations ... a government with absolute authority to decide the basic issues of human survival. One world government is inevitable."
Pope John Paul II quoted by Malachi Martin in the book "The Keys of This Blood"

"...This regionalization is in keeping with the Tri-Lateral Plan which calls for a gradual convergence of East and West, ultimately leading toward the goal of "one world government'....National sovereignty is no longer a viable concept..."
Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Security Advisor to President Jimmy Carter.

"It is the sacred principles enshrined in the United Nations charter to which the American people will henceforth pledge their allegiance."
President George Bush addressing the General Assembly of the U.N., February 1,1992.

"But this present window of opportunity, during which a truly peaceful and interdependent world order might be built, will not be open for long. Already there are powerful forces at work that threaten to destroy all of our hopes and efforts to erect an enduring structure of global interdependence."
David Rockefeller, speaking at the Business Council for the United Nations, September 14, 1994.

shall I go on?


"If you want to stop this mythical "NWO" I suggest you join the KKK"

There's a new one.

You might want to research who the money founder the Klu Klux Klan was, I'll give ya a hint, his name rhymes with dyke!


























[Edited on 27-6-2003 by MoBXsiNN]