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Does going to heaven make you inhuman

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posted on May, 30 2017 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: Perfectenemy
a reply to: dfnj2015

Sorry to burst your bubble but i'm convinced that most NDE's are pure fiction. I had 2 myself and nothing came even close to what i experienced. It was just nothing. A dark and infinite void. There is no god.


I don't think you can burst my bubble with your thoughts.

btw, if you were nothing, then how did you know. Or, maybe what you were experiencing you were not experiencing long enough to really get it.


edit on 30-5-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 30 2017 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

Thank God you fixed the title. For moment I was beginning to think you were inhuman like your avatar!



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Ghost147
An omnipotent God who is aware of every possible version of who we are across the entire multiverse would appreciate us for everything we could possibly be both good and bad. So what I am thinking is an all-powerful all-loving God would allow everyone through the gates of heaven to experience eternal heavenly bliss regardless of our earthly sins or how we practiced, or not practiced, our religion. God's infinite love is not restricted by the choices we make. This is because who we are is every possible choice we can make played out to its completion which actually exists at some point in time.


According to your view, yes this conclusion makes a lot of sense. And honestly, I prefer it over the Abraham-based concept from a logistics standpoint.

Thanks for sharing!


originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Ghost147

Thank God you fixed the title. For moment I was beginning to think you were inhuman like your avatar!


Yeah, fortunately iTruthSeeker had messaged me to let me know, haha.
edit on 30/5/17 by Ghost147 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 03:04 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

I don't get these kind of threads. The premise is a question, but the real purpose seems to be ridiculing others. I apologize if that's not what you are trying to do, but so many of these religious "please explain" threads are exactly that.

If you truly want to know about Heaven, I strongly recommend you read some Swedenborg. His explanations are more comprehensive and satisfying than anything anyone could write in this reply box.

Hell isn't a punishment. It's just where some people belong. Think about it. Have you heard the phrase "misery loves company"? Do you know anyone like that? Because I sure do. They take no pleasure in other people's happiness. So, the last place they'd want to spend forever, is Heaven.

There are many different areas of Heaven and Hell. There are some Hells which don't seem that bad at all. In contrast, there are parts of Heaven that don't seem so great. If you're an addict, a glutton, hopelessly lazy, you might just go to a hell where you can indulge in that forever. To the people there, for all they know, they're in paradise. But, if an angel were to look at them, he'd see pigs wallowing in their own filth.

Your afterlife is neither a punishment nor a reward. You choose it by becoming who you are.

If a hardcore atheist were invited into Heaven, he would reject it because it would mean he had been wrong, and atheists value their delusions of superior intelligence more than actual truth. They also can't be at ease while those around them are worshipping God, because what they really want is for people to be subordinate to them.

There's a wealth of information out there. It's been swept under the rug but it's there and free for the taking in the public domain. I'm talking about the fruits of long meditation by the greatest minds to ever exist in our world. These silly internet arguments are low-level stuff. If you want some real answers, take a break from 2017 and read something of actual value.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 03:38 PM
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originally posted by: MoreInterior
a reply to: Ghost147
There are many different areas of Heaven and Hell. There are some Hells which don't seem that bad at all. In contrast, there are parts of Heaven that don't seem so great. If you're an addict, a glutton, hopelessly lazy, you might just go to a hell where you can indulge in that forever. To the people there, for all they know, they're in paradise. But, if an angel were to look at them, he'd see pigs wallowing in their own filth.


This is an interesting concept. I haven't heard of it before.

In this context, wouldn't 'heaven' be subjective?


originally posted by: MoreInterior
a reply to: Ghost147
If a hardcore atheist were invited into Heaven, he would reject it because it would mean he had been wrong, and atheists value their delusions of superior intelligence more than actual truth. They also can't be at ease while those around them are worshipping God, because what they really want is for people to be subordinate to them.


I have my doubts about this one. Most people are Atheists simply because they have not witnessed Evidence. Not because of some kind of self superiority complex, incapable of changing their view despite literally being in heaven.

I don't mean to be rude, but it seems that this view of Atheists, even specifically 'hardcore atheists', seems to stem from bias.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 03:46 PM
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To those who believe in God (the creator) He lives and reigns in a place we call heaven so where does his enemies reside at?

You can not have it both ways.... where there is a heaven and no hell. It makes no sense....where is the yang?

There is a heaven and a hell and one day hell and all of its residents will be destroyed...

Hell is not for eternity.....heaven will be for forever...



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 03:57 PM
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Ghost, using logic...

Would heaven be heaven if not with your family members?
Mine wouldn't.

So if I'm lucky enough to receive that Judgement I know my family will be there, because that's my idea of heaven, and anything less wouldn't be.


My own personal thoughts go deeper...

I believe we are made up of wavelengths...
All the hate filled ones, all the loving ones, all the curious ones, etc


I believe these wavelengths are separated on Judgement Day and all receive their fitting punishment/reward...

So Hitler, will likely be in Heaven, playing with puppies as he so loved to do, painting beautiful art...
But with YinYang and the balance of good and evil...
Hitler is undoubtably in the deepest level of Hell, too.



I could go on, but it's a drawn out complicated philosophy I have...

I hope it made sense with what little I offered.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 04:13 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147


This is an interesting concept. I haven't heard of it before. In this context, wouldn't 'heaven' be subjective?

Yes.



I have my doubts about this one. Most people are Atheists simply because they have not witnessed Evidence. Not because of some kind of self superiority complex, incapable of changing their view despite literally being in heaven. I don't mean to be rude, but it seems that this view of Atheists, even specifically 'hardcore atheists', seems to stem from bias.

Atheists aren't such because of a pre-existing complex. They develop it. Many young people become atheists (or think they are) after observing the hypocrisy of religious people. At first they're idealistic and can still be compassionate. But everyone has to worship something. Even when you can't see that, it's true. To the extent that one doesn't worship a god, he worships himself. As atheists get older, they become angrier and less tolerant of everyone who doesn't see their logic. They'd like to think they just want to educate people, but their true motive in doing so is to subjugate and feel godlike.

People of Faith see evidence of God everywhere. If you mean something like a miracle, meant to force atheists to change their minds, it probably won't happen. That would be like enslaving them.

Furthermore, no matter how amazing the phenomenon, they'd only accept it mentally for a short while. As soon as they wanted to be selfish again, because of their practiced habit of rationalizing doing whatever they want they would write off the miracle somehow - hallucination, hoax, whatever. At that point, they'd be committing a level of blasphemy that would leave them much deeper in insanity than they were before.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 07:22 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

I think there is a part where souls are punished in the lake of fire, but I also think there is that time when they are simply dead.

There is too much in scripture that talks about triumph over death and not suffering the second death for that to not be true. It may be that you travel through the Lake of Fire on your way to nothing, but I think you do get there.

I have also heard it said that Hell is simply eternal separation from God. That makes a case that this is Hell and we are separated from God, but the presence of the Holy Spirit would suggest that we aren't separated from Him, not truly. There are suggestions that for Satan to truly and fully rule the earth at the end of times, the Holy Spirit must be pulled out of the world, meaning that God Himself pulls away. If that's so, then that may be as close to Hell as we will experience for that period of time, living on an earth that is feeling God's wrath and under Satan's rule.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: MoreInterior
a reply to: Ghost147
Atheists aren't such because of a pre-existing complex. They develop it.


On the contrary. We are all born Atheists and then some are indoctrinated or make a decision to follow a particular religion.

I think you may be referring to a particular type of Atheist, who actively tries to educate people or simply enjoys debating (all with varying levels of aggression, or lack there of), in which I would agree, is developmental.


originally posted by: MoreInterior
a reply to: Ghost147
Many young people become atheists (or think they are) after observing the hypocrisy of religious people. At first they're idealistic and can still be compassionate. But everyone has to worship something. Even when you can't see that, it's true.


On your later note, I feel that this view, that 'well you have to worship something', is a very common theistic view of an Atheist, usually stemming from an individual whom has always been within the realm of a religious, or at the very least spiritual, environment.

I do not worship anything. But, if you feel very strongly of your statement, you're free to tell me whom or what you believe I do worship. (it would also help to define what you mean by worship, too)


originally posted by: MoreInterior
a reply to: Ghost147
To the extent that one doesn't worship a god, he worships himself.


So what would it be called if an atheist sacrificed themselves in order to save another?


originally posted by: MoreInterior
a reply to: Ghost147
As atheists get older, they become angrier and less tolerant of everyone who doesn't see their logic. They'd like to think they just want to educate people, but their true motive in doing so is to subjugate and feel godlike.


Haha, you have a very obscure view on a very large group of people. I wonder what made you come to this conclusion?

Believe it or not, Not all atheists, or even most, are narcissistic, pompous, self righteous maniacs.


originally posted by: MoreInterior
a reply to: Ghost147
People of Faith see evidence of God everywhere. If you mean something like a miracle, meant to force atheists to change their minds, it probably won't happen. That would be like enslaving them.


No, I was referring to when you stated that "If a hardcore atheist were invited into Heaven, he would reject it because it would mean he had been wrong", which is just ridiculous.

You seem to have a very deep seeded hatred for Ahtheists with views that are completely unfounded.


originally posted by: MoreInterior
a reply to: Ghost147
Furthermore, no matter how amazing the phenomenon, they'd only accept it mentally for a short while. As soon as they wanted to be selfish again, because of their practiced habit of rationalizing doing whatever they want they would write off the miracle somehow - hallucination, hoax, whatever. At that point, they'd be committing a level of blasphemy that would leave them much deeper in insanity than they were before.


Yes, and I suppose they'd go off to their stealing, murdering, rapist ways, wouldn't they?



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 07:29 PM
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originally posted by: MoreInterior
a reply to: Ghost147
If you truly want to know about Heaven, I strongly recommend you read some Swedenborg. His explanations are more comprehensive and satisfying than anything anyone could write in this reply box.


Sometimes the reply box is more important for the writer to organize their thoughts by posting something than it is about you reading the post with all your prejudice, bigotry, and disdain for ideas that do not conform to your preexisting notions or dogma.


originally posted by: MoreInterior
If a hardcore atheist were invited into Heaven, he would reject it because it would mean he had been wrong, and atheists value their delusions of superior intelligence more than actual truth. They also can't be at ease while those around them are worshipping God, because what they really want is for people to be subordinate to them.


My faith in God is so much stronger than yours will ever be. I think everyone including atheists are allowed through the gates of heaven to experience eternal heavenly bliss regardless of our earthly sins, or how we practiced, or not practiced our religion. This is because my faith is in an all-loving all-powerful forgiving God. My faith gives me the confidence to know that myself, you, and everyone on ATS will be saved. My God is stronger than your God because my God forgives everyone with unconditional love.


edit on 30-5-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 07:59 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
In thinking about the problem of free-will and hard determinism and how both can be true at the same time, I’ve been resonating with the following idea when you combine the metaphysical implications of the many worlds theory of quantum mechanics with string theory.


I am little disappointed nobody commented on this little gem of a sentence. I thought it was one the coolest ones I've ever posted. Sometimes I think I'm the only one who gets me. But that's okay. It's all good.


edit on 30-5-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 09:44 PM
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originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Ghost147

You have made some very bizarre assumptions, so many wild and catholic beliefs in your statement
Sometimes a person needs to grow and stop with being fed as a child


feel free to educate me instead of just insult me


I wasn't making assumptions, I have been told directly, by Christians, that this is what they believe personally (notice how I am not stating that 'all of Christianity claims this'

Please learn how to use reading comprehension more efficiently. No need for your seemingly insufferable distaste for any content I post on this site to bleed into every response you make directed at me.

Or is it that you're just here to troll again? I noticed you haven't added anything of context to this thread. yet again


Come on ghost, you cant be told, you dont listen and you dont care to, but you will listen to what confirms what you want to hear
Insufferable?
You are calling christians psychopaths, duh?

Whats this
"burning for eternity, being skinned forever, tortured, and so forth,"
Where do you get that from, who taught you this, your catholic priest?
You go to the poisoned to get poison to spread poison

this is a troll thread
Its all you do, troll christianity
You are the atheist version of wesboro baptist church


www.themeetinghouse.com...
Thats Bruxy Cavey, a canadian christian minister, he teaches the bible.
I am sure you may have even heard of him.

If you wanted to learn the teachings of Christ, would you go to a student or a teacher, someone who has a knowledge or a person who clearly doesnt
No, you, you would go to a student, you do...why, they confirm what you believe christians think

Anyway in that link is a series of half hour sermons called "simple minded", no pun intended

Half an hour abouts each

So ghost, you want the truth, you want to understand, listen to those sermons
You wont because you dont want the truth, you dont want to be challenged, you just want to confirm your own bias listening to ignorant and falsely lead christians who dont live their walk


Your whole opening post is an exercise in delusional grandeur



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 09:50 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: dfnj2015
In thinking about the problem of free-will and hard determinism and how both can be true at the same time, I’ve been resonating with the following idea when you combine the metaphysical implications of the many worlds theory of quantum mechanics with string theory.


I am little disappointed nobody commented on this little gem of a sentence. I thought it was one the coolest ones I've ever posted. Sometimes I think I'm the only one who gets me. But that's okay. It's all good.



Might be because people think that quantum mechanics, relativity and string theory leading to multiple worlds is the stuff of science fiction and desperate men trying hard to earn a dollar
That those beliefs have no real connection to the real world we live in today

You had better lay off the Star Trek, you are losing touch with reality

or maybe that is your reality, multiple worlds you neither affect or effect



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

So your God forces forgiveness on those who dont want his forgiveness

Thats not love, thats abuse

Stop talking and start thinking



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 10:02 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Ghost147

I think there is a part where souls are punished in the lake of fire, but I also think there is that time when they are simply dead.

There is too much in scripture that talks about triumph over death and not suffering the second death for that to not be true. It may be that you travel through the Lake of Fire on your way to nothing, but I think you do get there.

I have also heard it said that Hell is simply eternal separation from God. That makes a case that this is Hell and we are separated from God, but the presence of the Holy Spirit would suggest that we aren't separated from Him, not truly. There are suggestions that for Satan to truly and fully rule the earth at the end of times, the Holy Spirit must be pulled out of the world, meaning that God Himself pulls away. If that's so, then that may be as close to Hell as we will experience for that period of time, living on an earth that is feeling God's wrath and under Satan's rule.


Something I wrote some years ago



Possibly? hell is eternal and why.

This may be contentious but it is also biblical

Eternal life is not a Hebrew belief , Jesus was a Jew so ?
The Greeks taught eternal life not the Jews, this eternal damnation for humanity may have come in through the Greeks.
Adam and Eve were removed from the garden (yes I believe the earth is 6 to 8 thousand years old) so they couldnt access the tree of life. They ate from the Tree of Knowledge
22...“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—

"So He drove the man out; and at the east of the Garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life," (Gen. 3:24).


I believe in a hell with an consuming fire, evil will be consumed and punishment metered out, its just not eternal punishment (cept for the fallen ones of the spirit world)
Chaff is used as a metaphor for sinners, chaff burned is lost. Consumed by fire.
Consumed means to be finished, nothing left. Another way sinners are described as brought destruction; destruction is explained as; bring to naught.
12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the granary, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
The fire seems unquenchable but the chaff will be brought to nothing-gone.


The Hebrew seems clear that those outside of Christ will be utterly destroyed and eternal life is only in Jesus. Eternal destruction is eternal nothing after judgement and punishment.
Now some will say eternal fires of hell...true, but

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8)

Now for me that states that hell is eternal, the flames are eternal, not life not that human suffering is eternal. Satan and his minions have the pleasure of hells eternal punishment.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 10:12 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

As your record begins to repeat.

I should just start telling you how you're going to respond to my last post. You literally do this every topic that you confront me in.

"Come on! You're the epitome of a close mind! You couldn't accept the answers we give you"

So on and so forth. Your rhetoric is incredible boring.

There's no substance, there's no foundation, there's just empty assertions with absolutely no shred of an attempt to actually further the conversation. You're here to troll, that's all you do and that's all you ever will do.

I'm still waiting on even a single sentence from you that actually is relevant to the topic at hand, rather than slinging personal insults to me.

Still waiting it appears...

Please actually be on topic. I'm surprised you haven't been banned for how constant this copy and paste response of yours is.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 11:14 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147



On the contrary. We are all born Atheists and then some are indoctrinated or make a decision to follow a particular religion.

Born atheists? To be an atheist is to deny God. Nobody is born an atheist or a theist, because infants don't have beliefs. Children are led by their parents. It's during adolescence and young adulthood that one starts to really think and choose. In the western world, everyone is familiar with the Christian God. Especially when it comes to those not raised in a particular religion, if you say "God," the Christian God is the one they think of. There's no blank slate.



I do not worship anything. But, if you feel very strongly of your statement, you're free to tell me whom or what you believe I do worship. (it would also help to define what you mean by worship, too)

Everyone worshipping something, means everyone has something they love above all else, from which all their happiness springs. If you don't love a God, you love either this material world, or yourself. If you believe in a concept of "Good," "Justice," "Truth," "Kindness," etc. apart from materialism and selfishness, you aren't an atheist. Those are other words for "God." Anything else you've heard is a twisting around of religion by corrupt or stupid people.



I was referring to when you stated that "If a hardcore atheist were invited into Heaven, he would reject it because it would mean he had been wrong", which is just ridiculous. You seem to have a very deep seeded hatred for Ahtheists with views that are completely unfounded.

It's not ridiculous. Atheists can't even breath the atmosphere of Heaven, it's so contrary to who they are.
I don't hate atheists. They're making their choice, like everyone else. You seem to have already forgotten my stance that Hell isn't a punishment and will be exactly where they can make themselves at home.



Yes, and I suppose they'd go off to their stealing, murdering, rapist ways, wouldn't they?

You got that from "selfishness?" I was thinking materialism and adultery, but if that's where your mind is, that's your issue.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 11:20 PM
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a reply to: ignorant_ape

That does not count as a debunk..

You actually have to reply with a counterpoint to debunk a claim..



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 11:33 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: MoreInterior
a reply to: Ghost147
If you truly want to know about Heaven, I strongly recommend you read some Swedenborg. His explanations are more comprehensive and satisfying than anything anyone could write in this reply box.


Sometimes the reply box is more important for the writer to organize their thoughts by posting something than it is about you reading the post with all your prejudice, bigotry, and disdain for ideas that do not conform to your preexisting notions or dogma.


originally posted by: MoreInterior
If a hardcore atheist were invited into Heaven, he would reject it because it would mean he had been wrong, and atheists value their delusions of superior intelligence more than actual truth. They also can't be at ease while those around them are worshipping God, because what they really want is for people to be subordinate to them.


My faith in God is so much stronger than yours will ever be. I think everyone including atheists are allowed through the gates of heaven to experience eternal heavenly bliss regardless of our earthly sins, or how we practiced, or not practiced our religion. This is because my faith is in an all-loving all-powerful forgiving God. My faith gives me the confidence to know that myself, you, and everyone on ATS will be saved. My God is stronger than your God because my God forgives everyone with unconditional love.



Well, you have trouble reading. Again, Hell is not a punishment. It's where you are if you love selfish pleasures that don't belong in Heaven. God doesn't send you there. If someone like that wants to go to Heaven, God might let him in to see what it's like, but he would leave because there would be nothing there that makes him happy.

But it sounds more like you're just giving yourself a free pass, and excusing in advance every selfish choice you'll ever make. That's not Faith. That's exploiting God to validate your own behavior.




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