Debunking the Debunkers??? Help here

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

I know he has been here for 5 mins and he is some kind of authority on the subject He is like a petulent child plenty on here have been interested in this for many DECADES I doubt if he has been alive that long.

Like you I think Mog from Zog is out there has he been here I don't think so.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Thanx pal.

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

I know he has been here for 5 mins and he is some kind of authority on the subject

He is like a petulent child plenty on here have been interested in this for many DECADES I doubt if he has been alive that long.

Like you I think Mog from Zog is out there has he been here I don't think so.

LOL, so all the researchers in the world have to pass through here right???
I wished, I just wished I was a kid.
No, the problem with you guys, is that you are gullible, it is not because ET have not obeyed your criteria, or Sagan's criteria, it does not mean they don't exist, it means you are taking a foolish position and not believing in your senses, and you are disconnected, don't blame on me, blame on yourselves.
IF you get some interest, why since the Roberson panel they have decided to infiltrate UFO groups, and release misinformation? Why everything regarding UFOs is classified? If it is nothing to worry about, why so? Why the French government released their files, why the Brazilian gov released their files? What is in there? Do you think we had such a power back in the days? Do you think it is all an atmospheric thing? That is for you guys to think and sort it out within yourselves.
Or rather ET does not exist, because we did not sort out a criteria that would legitimate it, so all the inteference with our planes, and cattle mutilation, and crop circles, must be us, or else, as we cannot explain SURE IT DID NOT HAPPENED. You got to be playing mental gymnastics the whole day.

a reply to: flamengo

Crop circles grasping at straws there pun intended seriously do you think some advanced race would think the best way of getting our attention is to bend some grass.

YOU are making assumptions about many things including the members on here.

No one said all the researchers in the world have to pass through here but if anything looked worthwhile it will have been posted and looked at on here by both sides.

The best thing you could do is a search of topics on here you will see what has been discussed from stupid claims of whats on the Moon & Mars to what has been claimed to have visited here.

We have heard EVERY theory possible from the straight forward Alien races, demons, spirits, inter-dimensional beings you name it, it will have been claimed anything with really strong 100% evidence NO, but thats what we hope for on here including me and others you have dismissed. 860+ pages of threads on here for Aliens & Ufo's so you have plenty to read through

a reply to: wmd_2008

I am aware of the legit amount of topics and theories that passed through here, I am dismayed at the poor state of affairs you are now. That is very interesting though, how you have been broken by excess of information and absence of a clear mind in dealing with it. In the difficulty in dealing with the subject.
Mind you, you cannot pin down this thing with logic alone. But you can understand more or less the pattern of behaviour, and it is bloody interesting.

a reply to: flamengo

I wished, I just wished I was a kid.

Yeah, it would better suited to your attitude.

No, the problem with you guys, is that you are gullible, it is not because ET have not obeyed your criteria, or Sagan's criteria, it does not mean they don't exist, it means you are taking a foolish position and not believing in your senses, and you are disconnected, don't blame on me, blame on yourselves.

I really have to say it, I don't care, report me, ban me.


You are an arrogant idiot.


See you know all our problems and know I have enlightened you of yours.

IF you get some interest, why since the Roberson panel they have decided to infiltrate UFO groups, and release misinformation?

there are a few answers that are far more plausible and logical that still is something of a concern that has nothing to with ET.

Why everything regarding UFOs is classified? If it is nothing to worry about, why so?

The few logical answers from the question above this one might explain why certain cases might labeled as classified.

Why the French government released their files, why the Brazilian gov released their files?

did something change in the time it took you write the 2 questions?

You just asked why everything regarding UFOs is classified yet now you ask why 2 countries governments have made all files available to the public, are you confused?

What is in there?

Hold on.....

aren't you the one implying you have gone through everything, all UFO lore, all cases and what not?

a reply to: flamengo

And just to refresh everyone's memories here. You don't need many cases, just one single reliable case. and IMO there were plenty of those.
It is not because there were lame ones, that true ones did not happen, normally so called skeptics they focused on the cases that are dubious, basically cherry picking facts, to divert the real interest, or the strangeness of it all.

originally posted by: flamengo
a reply to: wmd_2008

I am aware of the legit amount of topics and theories that passed through here, I am dismayed at the poor state of affairs you are now. That is very interesting though, how you have been broken by excess of information and absence of a clear mind in dealing with it. In the difficulty in dealing with the subject.
Mind you, you cannot pin down this thing with logic alone. But you can understand more or less the pattern of behaviour, and it is bloody interesting.

I think I get it.



You are projecting,


You are confused with what to believe due to the abundance of info available and this projection is just a way to release some tension.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

I did go through all, are you crazy, but enough of them, thousands at least, to observe the patterns of behaviour of those things.
And no, there are not better explanations for thousands of cases.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale

originally posted by: flamengo
a reply to: wmd_2008

I am aware of the legit amount of topics and theories that passed through here, I am dismayed at the poor state of affairs you are now. That is very interesting though, how you have been broken by excess of information and absence of a clear mind in dealing with it. In the difficulty in dealing with the subject.
Mind you, you cannot pin down this thing with logic alone. But you can understand more or less the pattern of behaviour, and it is bloody interesting.

I think I get it.



You are projecting,


You are confused with what to believe due to the abundance of info available and this projection is just a way to release some tension.

Not quite the case, but keep trying.

originally posted by: flamengo
a reply to: flamengo

And just to refresh everyone's memories here. You don't need many cases, just one single reliable case. and IMO there were plenty of those.
It is not because there were lame ones, that true ones did not happen, normally so called skeptics they focused on the cases that are dubious, basically cherry picking facts, to divert the real interest, or the strangeness of it all.

So why not start a thread with the case you have in mind?

Oh, you are toooooo tired of engaging skeptics for so long that aren't really skeptics.

What 1 reliable case points to aliens being the only cause, just 1 case?

a reply to: InhaleExhale

The thing on the multitude of cases, was a Vallee statement, that it would be easier in terms of our science to explain, if it was only a few cases, but as there are way too many, on a daily basis been reported, that affected the way we could possibly interpret the phenomena.
Now, that is a limitation of the interpreter, it is not a problem of the phenomena, that also implies that our science is just too young to absorve it all. That also implies that their physics is way more advanced than ours.
All this is problematic because it would refer to our limitations and our understanding of reality. And that what it comes back to, the UFO phenomena returns back to an epistomological event that challenges our perception of reality, hence our resistance to it and our cognitive dissonance.

originally posted by: flamengo
a reply to: InhaleExhale

I did go through all, are you crazy, but enough of them, thousands at least, to observe the patterns of behaviour of those things.
And no, there are not better explanations for thousands of cases.

did you edit the post to make completely confusing?


you did go through them, but enough of them, 1000s at least?

Um what?

what do you mean "no, there are not better explanations for 1000s of cases?

are you having a stroke?

Can you slow down and type slowly and clearly.



I assume you are saying you didnt go through them all but many of them.

and that no there is no better explanation other than ET for the 1000s of cases you have investigated, actually I wont say investigated, I will say read about or seen a youtube video of.

If this is the case, then you sir or madam have a nice day.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale

originally posted by: flamengo
a reply to: flamengo

And just to refresh everyone's memories here. You don't need many cases, just one single reliable case. and IMO there were plenty of those.
It is not because there were lame ones, that true ones did not happen, normally so called skeptics they focused on the cases that are dubious, basically cherry picking facts, to divert the real interest, or the strangeness of it all.

So why not start a thread with the case you have in mind?

Oh, you are toooooo tired of engaging skeptics for so long that aren't really skeptics.

What 1 reliable case points to aliens being the only cause, just 1 case?

I am not the least in a rush, are you? Do you have to settle the scores now?
I am gathering data, and acquiring data, that is fulfilling my expectations.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

"I assume you are saying you didnt go through them all but many of them.

and that no there is no better explanation other than ET for the 1000s of cases you have investigated, actually I wont say investigated, I will say read about or seen a youtube video of.

If this is the case, then you sir or madam have a nice day. "

It is absolutely impossible to investigate in situ so many cases, one get to read the literature, analyse the cases one by one, take the principle of mediocrity, and analyse them.
Of course watch videos are part of it.
Of course the narrative of a pilot is of uttermost importance. If you discount all the narratives that does not fit your worldview then that is too bad. You can spin it the way you want, you will only believe word of authority, legitimate opinions, now they may be wrong as well, they may spill convenient lies, it is up to you, you make your decision, I am not holding you back.

a reply to: flamengo

I'm not aware of any special book out there --- but there should be one ---- but since I'm a pro nuts an bolts saucer guy...you should add the late J. Allen Hynek to your flip-flopper list.



Any viable E.T. alien evidence collected here by earthlings, should be construed as them [E.T.] having knowledge of starship technology, that can break the speed of light barrier and on into the superluminal realm.

originally posted by: flamengo
Hi there guys, does anyone can recommend a books which is only focused on the skeptics and debunkers flaws?
I want to find a book where it is documented most of them and their arguments in most cases and where we can spot their dishonesty. I am referring to Donald Menzel, Klass, Carl Sagan, the flip flops of Vallee and so on. I have seen all these guys been making fallacies but it is all scattered around so many books, if anyone does know a single one where most of the data is put together it would be a really great.
Could be a site or a thread as well, but must be good stuff.
Thanks in advance.

Those that are skeptical are far less likely to accept just the word of someone than those that believe. The opinions of Carl Sagan, Philip Klass, Donald Menzel, etc. only support the skeptical point of view, they don't create it nor is it hinged upon it. You're putting far too much importance on their involvement in the subject. You're transposing the believer mentality, which in part for many is having to rely and hang on the words of those like Stanton Friedman, or stories told over the years. So it's understandable why the authoritative skeptical/debunker opinions would be threatening and affect you to the point of searching for their faults or flaws. In reality, chipping away at their opinions accomplishes nothing and is meaningless. However, chipping away at the opinions of UFO/alien "experts" or especially the stories told, does create a problem for the believer because a huge part of the belief is hinged upon it.

You're better off starting threads with this data you've compiled and prove us all wrong. Rather than trying to attack those that can't respond, or waste pointless energy searching out their flaws.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

The burden of proof should be higher than "we have no explanation for the reported details of this UFO sighting, so it must be alien".

I think there is a flip side to this as well. It seems many are all too willing to accept any credible case as military, but why the secrets 20, 30, 40 years after the fact?

A recent thread on the Levelland case had a technology(1957) that as far as we know, we still cant duplicate today. The ball lightning explanation was an obvious cover up, but 60 years later, we still have no real explanation, if there is one.

No explanation for Hudson Valley, maybe a military blimp of some kind, maybe alien. Either way, we as the public arent willing to demand an explanation. If it was us, why isnt the govt flying it over their testing grounds in Nevada? And bravo for keeping a secret for so long, no leaks that Im aware of.

Same goes for Belgium, supposedly the US is testing our super secret triangles over Belgium at low hover and under extended observation. Again, congrats to whoever pulled off this govt mission and has been able to keep it secret all these years.

More recently, the Phoenix Lights, which probably was a military exercise of some sort, but still has no official word from the Air force. The only thing we know is they lied every chance they got till they were caught in the lie. You would think they could have eventually come clean and said it was probably a few A-10s that were misidentified... but we arent going to hold anyone accountable, the governor is even able to get away with dressing up as an Alien to try and downplay the situation.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Yes, this narrative has to rely on the existence of the Gluck, the Nazi UFO, and so many other assumptions and mental gymnastics to avoid the most obvious.
If the Gluck was real, we would be speaking German right now.
There may be UFOs on our disposition, but if so, those are the ones who they let hit Earth by their own volition, manufacturing "accidents". But then, why would they risk flying them off Area 51? Why so many events before the war? It just gets more and more complicated.

a reply to: Drunkenparrot

So anyone familiar enough with blue book to know of the misdirection and obsfucation that was the true purpose of the program should also know that the point was to hide the U2 and A12/SR71 programs under the guise of something fantastical like extraterrestrial visitation,. It was a little too successful as 60 years later the topic continues to be framed in the same light.

Just like Roswell-project Mogul was found out so they changed their story. They used Kenneth Arnolds' story as a template and used it to dangle a carrot in front of the press to distract them.